Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Strange thought about Dragon-blooded and Progenitive Essence

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    Seems like it could be a logical superstition linked to Hesiesh saving all his essence to burn the bodies of the Anathema.
    Maybe even liked to an origin myth where the the ancestor of a particular group of Dragon-Blooded was the only child of an Immaculate Dragon and thus received 100% of their progenitive essence?

    Well, 2e had one charm related to a dragon-blood refining his purity through essence through essence meditations, its manipulation and such, so there's some room for more hands-on exploration of the limits of progenitive essence stocking/concentration and possible ways around it.

    Or at least for some daring, though not exactly sensible, people to make entertaining attempts at it and more. Remember Bhagwei's failed tantric sex magic experiments in Aspectbook: Wood?
    Last edited by Baaldam; 09-30-2018, 07:56 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


      Well, 2e had one charm related to a dragon-blood refining his purity through essence through essence meditations, its manipulation and such, so there's some room for more hands-on exploration of the limits of progenitive essence stocking/concentration and possible ways around it.
      An extremely different take on Essence, on the Dragon Blooded, and on the First Age than what we have now.

      Given the open space past Essence 5, there's probably technically not anything preventing a Charm for affecting it but... ehhhhhh.

      Considering how much of Progenitive Essence is calibrated to create interesting aristocratic intrigue stories, I cannot understand the impulse to move it away from that into something else.

      I swear, I am counting the days until somebody comes along insisting that the Caul's shrines can be modelled as generic manses, and that there's nothing stopping them from being built wherever.

      Originally posted by Baaldam
      Or at least for some daring, though not exactly sensible, people to make entertaining attempts at it and more. Remember Bhagwei's failed tantric sex magic experiments in Aspectbook: Wood?
      Sooooo Dragon Blooded sex is exclusively about reproduction?


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

        An extremely different take on Essence, on the Dragon Blooded, and on the First Age than what we have now.

        Given the open space past Essence 5, there's probably technically not anything preventing a Charm for affecting it but... ehhhhhh.

        Considering how much of Progenitive Essence is calibrated to create interesting aristocratic intrigue stories, I cannot understand the impulse to move it away from that into something else.

        I swear, I am counting the days until somebody comes along insisting that the Caul's shrines can be modelled as generic manses, and that there's nothing stopping them from being built wherever.
        Yes, you do have a very good that "high-Essence charms/spells and let's be over this" can turn into a slippery slope of terrible devaluing ideas like terrestrial baby-factories and so on. Keeping a a good balance between "making the impossible" and "we are the ones to make the impossible possible, so let's do this other ludricous thing too" sometimes is a complex thing. Even more repentful of citing DotFA charms as reference now.



        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
        Sooooo Dragon Blooded sex is exclusively about reproduction?
        Far from it, but the capacity to potentially generate other exalted is an added bonus the other Chosen definitely do not get from it.
        Last edited by Baaldam; 09-30-2018, 01:07 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Nunsploitation is almost worth allowing PE in my game. Almost.


          Check out Momentum Exalted!

          Comment


          • #20
            Dammit; I had a blissful few minutes in which my aversion to abbreviations (especially impromptu ones) meant that I didn't know what was being said, regardless of how obvious it was.

            And now I've figured it, and remembered the context, and a whole flood gate has opened... bah, it's a damn mess.


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Simon Darkstep View Post
              Nunsploitation is almost worth allowing PE in my game. Almost.

              For a few seconds i went "what has Physical Education to do with anything??", then it dawned on mee what you actually meant.

              That said and just out of curiosity, wwhat kind of misgivings do you have with Progenitive Essence? I would like to hear more on that.

              Comment


              • #22
                I wondered that. Maybe the House of Bells in Simon's game believes true war is all about strategy, and it's beneath the Dragonblood to engage in physical exercise?

                That said and just out of curiosity, what kind of misgivings do you have with Progenitive Essence? I would like to hear more on that.
                I don't want to shut down people's discussions, but I'm sure there were quite a few threads arguing about Progenitive Essence back when the book was released.
                Though, I suppose if anywhere's the place to continue that, this would be the thread.

                Anyway, to go back to the OP... yes, but I think that was already the case to some extent. Dragonblood monks are already Dragonblood who are not producing any children. I can well imagine unscrupulous and impious matriarchs trying to work out how to trick their Monastic children into making Dragonblood grandchildren. I think the difference with Progenitive Essence is more how it makes it difficult for the matriarchs to just get their non-monastic kids to have more Dragonblood grandchildren, making the monks' lack of progeny more frustrating.

                Of course, it would be extremely impious.


                "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                  I don't want to shut down people's discussions, but I'm sure there were quite a few threads arguing about Progenitive Essence back when the book was released.
                  Though, I suppose if anywhere's the place to continue that, this would be the thread.
                  To be fair, the person asking is the person who created the thread, so they can kinda take it whatever direction they want. But you're not wrong, the search bar at the top will find a lot of strong opinions if you search "progenitive essence"


                  I post Artifacts in this thread. How I make them is in this thread.
                  I have made many tools and other things for 3rd Edition. I now host all of my creations on my Google site: The Vault of the Unsung Hero

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


                    For a few seconds i went "what has Physical Education to do with anything??", then it dawned on mee what you actually meant.

                    That said and just out of curiosity, wwhat kind of misgivings do you have with Progenitive Essence? I would like to hear more on that.
                    I didn't intend (as Wizard pointed out) to derail, and yes, it's already been discussed and I'm pleased with the outcome. But keeping it to one invisible para: It's not going to appear in my game, because my story prep is deeply involved with high-power, vastly influential people being presented with ethical decisions as they wield that power. For instance: Do you let your enemies live if they parlay? Can you forgive a criminal if you come to understand their point of view? Could you, then, consider horrible steps to preserve your family or your nation.... or could you understand and forgive someone who did? PE was written in to biologically (biomagically?) nullify a potentially interesting ethical hook. I get that people tend to favor it, and I've no problem that it's canonical.

                    I do have to say though, Nunsploitation gave me a much needed laugh on an otherwise grim and grindy day. That's why I posted!


                    Check out Momentum Exalted!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                      Anyway, to go back to the OP... yes, but I think that was already the case to some extent. Dragonblood monks are already Dragonblood who are not producing any children. I can well imagine unscrupulous and impious matriarchs trying to work out how to trick their Monastic children into making Dragonblood grandchildren. I think the difference with Progenitive Essence is more how it makes it difficult for the matriarchs to just get their non-monastic kids to have more Dragonblood grandchildren, making the monks' lack of progeny more frustrating.

                      Of course, it would be extremely impious.
                      Well, considering the kind of power that a family member in the Order can wield, and connections that they can bring, it might balance out the lack of children. Especially in House Mnemon, which has to have the highest proportion of scions from strong bloodlines who become monks of any House, and both makes a cultural institution of maintaining some of their loyalties, and benefits from the organisational connections maintained by Mater.

                      Really, if the concern is about losing a well-bred scion, it can be offset a bit by the fact that, by definition, they'll probably have numerous Exalted siblings, who are well positioned to have more Exalted children.

                      They can't all be optimal choices.

                      ....

                      "Interesting ethical dilemmas"? Good Lord, I thought it was still about complaints over supposedly cutting off heterosexual relations. That's, errr... That's something.


                      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Oh, sure, there's plenty of reasons to get people into the Priesthood. It's the same reason noble families in medieval Western Europe would try and get relatives appointed as bishops, even though they'd then have to be celibate.

                        But of course, an impious matriarch might well think "I'll get my nephew into the Immaculate Order for the influence... but why not also get him to secretly knock up my great-niece who's married to a mortal?".

                        Of course, they might decide it's too risky in case it's revealed. Or they might not. And the people she's trying to manipulate might refuse, but that won't necessarily stop her pressuring them.


                        "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ehhh... I'm kind of averse on the grounds that I think excessive cynicism by characters towards religion is kind of boring, as well as a sense that the greater emphasis on the Order having a culture/secret police role in this Edition makes it plausible for senior figures to be wary of risking scandal right in their line of sight. Both on grounds of disgracing vows of celibacy and encouraging consanguinity, which... of all the examples you could have gone with, is kind of weird and gross. Kind of shifting the narrative a bit too far away from Austen-esque gentry matriarch and into 70s cult commune leader territory.


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            That's why I said "impious" matriarch. I wouldn't think it would be common. Just that, occasionally, you will have people cynical enough about religion to do this.
                            I certainly wouldn't want it presented as a norm.

                            But cynical relatives do give your monk PC plenty of opportunity to struggle between family and faith.


                            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                              Ehhh... I'm kind of averse on the grounds that I think excessive cynicism by characters towards religion is kind of boring, as well as a sense that the greater emphasis on the Order having a culture/secret police role in this Edition makes it plausible for senior figures to be wary of risking scandal right in their line of sight. Both on grounds of disgracing vows of celibacy and encouraging consanguinity, which... of all the examples you could have gone with, is kind of weird and gross. Kind of shifting the narrative a bit too far away from Austen-esque gentry matriarch and into 70s cult commune leader territory.

                              Sounds a little too calculated/mechanical - and close to the 2e logic that eventually led into DB-baby factories, imho.

                              Truth be told i'm more interested in the conundrum of superstitions, ideas, beliefs annd social pitfalls the concept of Progenitive Essence might lead characters into.

                              Like, let's say for an example, a female monk that accidentally gets pregnant in a moment of weakness deciding to deliver the child in secret and periodically watching over it in wait for an eventual exaltation, or a married dynast disatisfied with her (decidedly mortal) children going into religious pilgrimage and spiritual retreat, only to discover herself unexpected tempted, by twisted passion and logic both, to delve into impious acts, not to just to sleep with a monk, taboo on itself, but to actually tempt long enough to be sure of havving its child. That can be heavy and dramatic stuff indeed, i think.

                              And on the oppositte side of the spectrum, you can have a silly far from celibate monk on the vein of Inu-Yasha's Miroku, occasionally "offering his spiritual contribution" to unexalted ladies of dynasty with a deep, frustrated desire to have children touched by the essence of the dragons.
                              Last edited by Baaldam; 10-03-2018, 11:22 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Huh.

                                I have been previously unfamiliar with the word "impious", so my initial read on its pronunciation and meaning was that it was a synonym for "impish".

                                That being said, I feel as though even a senior Dynasty lacking personal piety would have other practical considerations against scheming to pressure male scions that have become monks into impregnating their cousins. Even that consideration comes after the question of whether or not it's a plan that would arise from their worldview; if the priority that it places on men, and level of power it ascribes to them even as tools, does not have a patriarchal bias.

                                That and the manner in which it's kind of viewing the women in the equation as well. Sure, younger Dynasts aren't generally given much say in whom they marry, but the emphasis in mother-daughter relationships does generally seem to be on grooming for the next generation of authority, with the priority in marriage being providing a useful partner, compared to the more subservient narrative of "you must have this particular man's child".

                                Such conspiracy strikes me less as a case of impiety and more of desperation; that you really screwed up your matchmaking, and are trying to make amends or save face. Even then, it seems to me that there are far less fraught options than soliciting monks; arranging liaisons with unmarried young men, whose life plan still seems a decent number of years away from being given to another House, seems like a good one.


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X