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How do Demon's Souls work?

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  • How do Demon's Souls work?

    (First person to reply "Very well, thank you" gets a session with Painbot!)

    This popped up in a couple of threads, so let's discuss it here: How, exactly, do Third and Second Circle Demon's soul hierarchy work? The books say that the Warden, Indulgent, Defining, Messenger, Expressive, Reflective and Wisdom souls embody the Third Circle Demon's abilities to "protect, gratify, define, communicate, express, reflect or understand its own essential nature".

    Do you think these should be hard and fast roles the 2Cs conform to? I get most of them, but "gratify" and "reflect" seem a little vaguer to me, what do those say to you? Is Berengiere's enforced guard duty somehow illustrative of her nature as Ligier's Indulgent Soul?

    Also, we know that 2Cs create 1C demons, but are there any cases of 3Cs creating them as well? Should 3Cs have any special regard for the 1C races that ultimately descend from them, or are they ultimately all just dust motes to the Unquestionables?

    I know there aren't any real canonical answers to these, but how would you rule on these in your game setting? And while we're on the subject, who're your favorite Demons, by their Soul roles?

  • #2
    But being made to do a job wouldn't count towards or against an entity's role. I mean it doesn't matter for or against her reflecting on an indulgence if The Weaver of Voices has to guard a tomb and doesn't like it. Think of the demons as sort of operating on a theme from their progenitor. So Benegerie isn't necessarily specifically more indulgent than say Sondok, but she represents more of Ligier's indulgences that the Green Sun enjoys building and creating things and probably has a fondness for creating the best things for those who've given the most for his services. If you can convince him of it then Ligier will create great things for you, provided you can get him the price, but he indulge your wishes and give you something grand. So too does Benegerie, she'll create stuff and she's not going to do shoddy work, but she's noted to love the work most when it comes from those who've permanently given their voices to her.

    For an added bit on an earlier thread from the forum.
    Berengiere symbolizes her progenitor’s love of craft, creating tapestries of amazing artistry. Mortals pay her homage, forever yielding their voices when they submit to her. Even the toxin on her nails is aconite, “the queen of poisons.” The landslide that is her face is of brass and basalt, as is Malfeas himself


    • #3
      Pretty good for a first attempt, but I definitely think that From Software refined significantly with the Dark series.

      I think it's generally okay to play fairly loose in how levels of the hierarchy relate to one another, and make the expression of one in the other rather subtle, and maybe often mostly in an aesthetic element. I think Octavian, a conquering rock monster who hates the Earth for having scorned his love, as a soul of Munaxes, a fissure in the earth in which secrets treacherous to authorities echo, to be a good illustration of that.

      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed) Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)


      • #4
        To answer a question elsewhere about Berengiere; the Yozis want that burial ground to retain a respectful silence, and she has the power to steal voices. The connection isn't much of a stretch.

        A lot of Second Circle Demons are set tasks like that. Lucien's natural role of protecting the rest of the mighty has him charged with keeping Sacheverell from waking up, Stanewald was sent to the peak of Mount Meru to perform some strange ritual, Gumela's search for that unknown thing he's looking for comes from at least one step up the ladder. Jenna Moran once described the Second Circle as the hands of the Yozis, and between that and how so many of them are written up, I imagine that whenever a Yozis or several of them have some esoteric nonsense or grand terrible plan they want doing, they find some citizen with associated skills or related nature and put it on them.

        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed) Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)


        • #5
          Ok, here’s a question then. What sort of metaphor would you go for when creating Erembour’s Messenger Soul? Would you go for a straightforward analog of her music, akin to how Gervesin is a fairly literal incarnation of Liger’s solar rays? Or would you prefer something more metaphorical?



          • #6
            If Gervesin is the Messanger Soul, I would see that less in what he is physically, and more in how his touch blights those things that thrive under the golden sun, turning plants to metal and stringing birds with wire. In this, he conveys the word of Ligier that would see all of Creation become like Hell.

            So for Erembour's Messanger Soul, I would try to figure her ethos and motives, and find something that embodies that. Since Erembour herself already covers direct physical and mental transformations of people, I might propose a demon that straightforwardly creates darkness, and attacks sources of light.

            I would definitely think that she should have a soul whose form is in a music without source.

            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
   Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)


            • #7
              3rd Circles do create 1st Circles as well, it’s just more Notable for 2nd circles to do it. Like Orabilis has his wee eyes. I think the point is if a 3rd circle wants a servant more potent they can birth Behemoths.

              It is a time for great deeds!