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  • The Artifact 2 Thread. Some Questions and Ideas.

    Hey Everyone,

    I wanted to tap the collective wisdom of the forum on a few questions I had regarding artifacts. Specifically artifacts on the small end of the scale. With 3e Core and Arms out now they give good guidance on 3+ dot artifacts but don't much mention 2 dot ones except for the few in the core. I am pretty sure a 1 dot artifact is not a thing as of 3rd and the core seems to support that with the artifact crafting section starting at two dots. So with this being stated I had some questions I wanted to ask to get a better grasp on the niche a 2 dot artifact fills.

    Background: I am playing a Twilight with a good number of crafting charms. He made a deal with a guildsman to make some artifacts that don't require attunement for them. They provided the materials I just need to provide the crafting. I have ran into a bit of an issue in trying to get a good grasp on what I can expect a 2 dot artifact I can make would do. I put some of the sample ideas below.

    Artifact 2 Ideas.

    Ledger of the Minister - This ledger book has 200 pages in it. It however seems to never run out of blank pages. If the owner rights what they re looking for on the first page of the ledger the ink disappears but the book will flip the the needed page.

    Sage's Quill - when the command word is spoken the quill will stand up and move on its own to write down everything that is said within 10 ft. of it. It will denote each person words as they say them if the owner is aware of who the person is. If not it will mark the speaker unknown. When the command word is spoken again it will stop writing.

    Eavesdropping Sparrow - This small mechanical bird can record up to two hours of information while it whistles pleasant tunes. It can fly up to 50 miles from its owner. Upon its command word being given it will reply the information it overheard back. Fly speed 20 mph.

    Chilling Orb - This 16 inch orb upon command begins to emit a cooling breeze around it. Everything within 20ft. of the orb can feel the cooling effect. It can cool the affected area to as low as 50 degrees.

    Warming Orb - This 16 inch orb upon command begins to emit a warmth radiating around it. Everything within 20ft. of the orb can feel the warmth . It can warm the affected area to as high as 95 degrees.

    Bathing Tub of Bliss - This bathing tub is 6 ft. long 4ft. wide and finely crafted. Upon command it can produce water to the desired temperature of the user. If the user spends an hour bathing it reliefs physical stress and tiredness as much as a full nights rest.

    The Verminator - This 16 inch pitch black orb causes all vermin to flee its radius. They will not willing enter the area. Vermin with Essence 2+ must make a roll against Difficulty 4 to approach. This will not stop magically compelled vermin.

    These are just a couple ideas that feel like they fit the power niche for the artifact 2 area. If you collective peoples don't mind could you share some insight, ideas, and thoughts on this subject?

  • #2
    These sound about right, although things like the quill and the birds are already in Arms, and those orbs are basically hearthstones.


    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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    • #3
      Wild concept: Artificial Hearthstones.

      Like, artifacts that you can stick in a hearthstone socket that do stuff that wouldn't work for an actual hearthstone.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Elfive View Post
        Wild concept: Artificial Hearthstones.

        Like, artifacts that you can stick in a hearthstone socket that do stuff that wouldn't work for an actual hearthstone.
        I like this idea. HOWEVER! They wouldn't be able to be stand-ins for hearthstones on stuff that require power from manses I'd say. Most of those kind of thing are balanced around the manse being a vulnerable point of attack to take down your major artifacts.

        I'd also say that they probably shouldn't do things to actively boost the artifact in question directly. Nothing that upgrades your resonance level for instance. Perhaps something that provides tangential bonuses would be fine though. Power level should be roughly comparable to other 2-dot artifacts (most of the published hearthstones actually kinda suck so I don't think I'd limit it to that power level)
        Last edited by armyofwhispers; 10-16-2018, 05:39 PM.


        Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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        • #5
          my 2 cents:

          I have a rule when it comes to differentiating artifact 1 and 2 stuff.

          Artifact 1 'merely' rivals really good/handy mundane stuff - artifact 2 equates to the very limit of what mundane means can replicate.



          Ledger of the Minister - This ledger book has 200 pages in it. It however seems to never run out of blank pages. If the owner rights what they re looking for on the first page of the ledger the ink disappears but the book will flip the the needed page.
          - should be artifact 1. A book that wont run out of pages, and automatically indexes content? Nothing that a scribe servant can't do for you. Not fancy enough to be artifact 2.


          Sage's Quill - when the command word is spoken the quill will stand up and move on its own to write down everything that is said within 10 ft. of it. It will denote each person words as they say them if the owner is aware of who the person is. If not it will mark the speaker unknown. When the command word is spoken again it will stop writing.
          - there's a 2nd edition artifact that this, only better, as an artifact 2 gizmo. The Audient Brush from page 33 of Oadenol's Codex. That said, sure this is a 2nd artifact, but its a weak one. The Audient brush is far more powerful and useful for the same 'price'.

          Eavesdropping Sparrow - This small mechanical bird can record up to two hours of information while it whistles pleasant tunes. It can fly up to 50 miles from its owner. Upon its command word being given it will reply the information it overheard back. Fly speed 20 mph.
          - no complaints here. A small mechanical artifact, sounds good. The lack of a repair stat would make me think it shouldn't be mechanical... it could just be made from blue jade and memory crystals or something.

          Chilling Orb - This 16 inch orb upon command begins to emit a cooling breeze around it. Everything within 20ft. of the orb can feel the cooling effect. It can cool the affected area to as low as 50 degrees.
          - centigrade or fahrenheit? Also, I would suggest specifying how well it will work in desert conditions, or near fires. If it can put out fires, or keep you chilly (if not even snowy) in a blazing desert, then it'd be closer to artifact 3.

          Warming Orb - This 16 inch orb upon command begins to emit a warmth radiating around it. Everything within 20ft. of the orb can feel the warmth . It can warm the affected area to as high as 95 degrees.
          - same as above, just regarding its function in cold conditions.

          Bathing Tub of Bliss - This bathing tub is 6 ft. long 4ft. wide and finely crafted. Upon command it can produce water to the desired temperature of the user. If the user spends an hour bathing it reliefs physical stress and tiredness as much as a full nights rest.
          - I would specify how that "physical stress" effect function. Restore WP? Also, can this just be abused as an infinite water-source? Because infinite water source is really damn powerful is you're in a desert or somewhere similar.

          The Verminator - This 16 inch pitch black orb causes all vermin to flee its radius. They will not willing enter the area. Vermin with Essence 2+ must make a roll against Difficulty 4 to approach. This will not stop magically compelled vermin.
          - no complaints here. I might rename and refluff it as a "Lantern of vermin-fright" or something like that, but its ok.


          Just my opinions


          Malfeas F'Tagn - go check out my epic MLP/Exalted crossover "The Scroll of Exalted ponies" @ Fimfiction

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          • #6
            One of the 3e hearthstone tags is that it's not dependent on an attached manse. I'm pretty sure those are all naturally occurring though.

            Arms has a later section with a bunch more level 2 artifacts in it.


            ....

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            • #7
              Jeez, what's with all the sixteen inch orbs? Both in terms of that level of specification in general, and that number being the choice?

              And it's referring to, what, the diameter? That's something larger than a football/soccer ball! You're talking about an object the size of two kitchen mixing bowls stacked on top of each other, it's huge. And as a sphere, it wouldn't exactly be convenient to carry around; the most unobtrusive way you could possibly hold it is tucked under an arm. Like, even if you attached a handle to it, actually carrying it at your side would be terribly in the way. Unless it was the kind of handle that makes it basically a goremaul.

              Originally posted by webkilla View Post
              I have a rule when it comes to differentiating artifact 1 and 2 stuff.

              Artifact 1 'merely' rivals really good/handy mundane stuff - artifact 2 equates to the very limit of what mundane means can replicate.
              Artifact 1 isn't a thing anymore, and there's a sample level 2 that is a walking stick that can transform into a tree full of conveniences at will.

              I standardise level 2 Artifacts with the idea that they provide a magic that is convenient, but generally can't accomplish things. It makes life easier for the user, but doesn't really expand capabilities or affect other things. A lot aren't mechanically specific enough to use dice, but when they are it's only the smallest bonuses. The scope probably also should be limited only to the user... yeah, I think even twenty feet is a bit too far.

              Yasal crystals are a bit of an exception, but they're almost like a category of their own, and the kinds of Charms you might get from the sort of spirit you could keep in a level 2 might very well be no better then the powers of any other level 2 Artifact.


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                These sound about right, although things like the quill and the birds are already in Arms, and those orbs are basically hearthstones.
                Thanks Isator. I have been trying to get the proper bounds idea on where hey fall exactly. You reply helps get me there. Appreciate it!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by webkilla View Post
                  my 2 cents:

                  I have a rule when it comes to differentiating artifact 1 and 2 stuff.

                  Artifact 1 'merely' rivals really good/handy mundane stuff - artifact 2 equates to the very limit of what mundane means can replicate.



                  Ledger of the Minister - This ledger book has 200 pages in it. It however seems to never run out of blank pages. If the owner rights what they re looking for on the first page of the ledger the ink disappears but the book will flip the the needed page.
                  - should be artifact 1. A book that wont run out of pages, and automatically indexes content? Nothing that a scribe servant can't do for you. Not fancy enough to be artifact 2.


                  Sage's Quill - when the command word is spoken the quill will stand up and move on its own to write down everything that is said within 10 ft. of it. It will denote each person words as they say them if the owner is aware of who the person is. If not it will mark the speaker unknown. When the command word is spoken again it will stop writing.
                  - there's a 2nd edition artifact that this, only better, as an artifact 2 gizmo. The Audient Brush from page 33 of Oadenol's Codex. That said, sure this is a 2nd artifact, but its a weak one. The Audient brush is far more powerful and useful for the same 'price'.

                  Eavesdropping Sparrow - This small mechanical bird can record up to two hours of information while it whistles pleasant tunes. It can fly up to 50 miles from its owner. Upon its command word being given it will reply the information it overheard back. Fly speed 20 mph.
                  - no complaints here. A small mechanical artifact, sounds good. The lack of a repair stat would make me think it shouldn't be mechanical... it could just be made from blue jade and memory crystals or something.

                  Chilling Orb - This 16 inch orb upon command begins to emit a cooling breeze around it. Everything within 20ft. of the orb can feel the cooling effect. It can cool the affected area to as low as 50 degrees.
                  - centigrade or fahrenheit? Also, I would suggest specifying how well it will work in desert conditions, or near fires. If it can put out fires, or keep you chilly (if not even snowy) in a blazing desert, then it'd be closer to artifact 3.

                  Warming Orb - This 16 inch orb upon command begins to emit a warmth radiating around it. Everything within 20ft. of the orb can feel the warmth . It can warm the affected area to as high as 95 degrees.
                  - same as above, just regarding its function in cold conditions.

                  Bathing Tub of Bliss - This bathing tub is 6 ft. long 4ft. wide and finely crafted. Upon command it can produce water to the desired temperature of the user. If the user spends an hour bathing it reliefs physical stress and tiredness as much as a full nights rest.
                  - I would specify how that "physical stress" effect function. Restore WP? Also, can this just be abused as an infinite water-source? Because infinite water source is really damn powerful is you're in a desert or somewhere similar.

                  The Verminator - This 16 inch pitch black orb causes all vermin to flee its radius. They will not willing enter the area. Vermin with Essence 2+ must make a roll against Difficulty 4 to approach. This will not stop magically compelled vermin.
                  - no complaints here. I might rename and refluff it as a "Lantern of vermin-fright" or something like that, but its ok.


                  Just my opinions
                  Thanks Webkilla! I appreciate you insight on this. Can you give some examples of what you consider a 2 dot artifact when you get a chance? I would love to get more insight on it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                    Jeez, what's with all the sixteen inch orbs? Both in terms of that level of specification in general, and that number being the choice?

                    And it's referring to, what, the diameter? That's something larger than a football/soccer ball! You're talking about an object the size of two kitchen mixing bowls stacked on top of each other, it's huge. And as a sphere, it wouldn't exactly be convenient to carry around; the most unobtrusive way you could possibly hold it is tucked under an arm. Like, even if you attached a handle to it, actually carrying it at your side would be terribly in the way. Unless it was the kind of handle that makes it basically a goremaul.



                    Artifact 1 isn't a thing anymore, and there's a sample level 2 that is a walking stick that can transform into a tree full of conveniences at will.

                    I standardise level 2 Artifacts with the idea that they provide a magic that is convenient, but generally can't accomplish things. It makes life easier for the user, but doesn't really expand capabilities or affect other things. A lot aren't mechanically specific enough to use dice, but when they are it's only the smallest bonuses. The scope probably also should be limited only to the user... yeah, I think even twenty feet is a bit too far.

                    Yasal crystals are a bit of an exception, but they're almost like a category of their own, and the kinds of Charms you might get from the sort of spirit you could keep in a level 2 might very well be no better then the powers of any other level 2 Artifact.
                    The orb size was based on my thoughts that most items that would emit a cooling or heating effect would be a bit larger and less easy to carry around. I am not sure how that lines up with cannon or game examples was just how I felt the size would work out. A lot of the 2 dot artifact examples I gave orb wise was the idea that they would get installed in a location or not be moved often which affected the size idea as well. thanks again for the feedback and the thought and experiences you have all had on dealing with artifacts

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by drakor View Post

                      The orb size was based on my thoughts that most items that would emit a cooling or heating effect would be a bit larger and less easy to carry around. I am not sure how that lines up with cannon or game examples was just how I felt the size would work out. A lot of the 2 dot artifact examples I gave orb wise was the idea that they would get installed in a location or not be moved often which affected the size idea as well. thanks again for the feedback and the thought and experiences you have all had on dealing with artifacts
                      I did intend that to mostly be a good humoured rant anyway.

                      Your point about a sense of installation... that does emphasise the similarity to hearthstones, but the image makes me wonder at some alternatives.

                      Part of it is that, to my eyes, Artifacts of any level kind of rely on a form of proximity to the one attuned to them. I think the attunement rules even make being out of contact for an extended period break the connection. That might be bent a bit for things like automatons that can be sent away on missions, but they have to come back eventually.

                      A measure of independent function logically has to exist, so I mostly think it revolves around First Age Artifice and possibly manses. The former possibly in creating a system that can sustain power for certain Artifacts independent of being attuned.

                      As for the general power of two dots, I look at things like the Collar of Dawn's Cleansing Light, and I think... the actual form of those powers can be virtually anything, while the scope, the point of them is that they lend an air of casual divinity to the user. It's a little piece of magic that makes a certain aspect of your life immaculate, stylish, unburdened, in a manner a bit below the notice of your Exalted or godly Charms. It needs to have its limits, which might mean excluding almost anything that can function as a vehicle, but within the scope of the particular Artifact it gives you a certain privileged status.


                      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                        Jeez, what's with all the sixteen inch orbs? Both in terms of that level of specification in general, and that number being the choice?

                        And it's referring to, what, the diameter? That's something larger than a football/soccer ball! You're talking about an object the size of two kitchen mixing bowls stacked on top of each other, it's huge. And as a sphere, it wouldn't exactly be convenient to carry around; the most unobtrusive way you could possibly hold it is tucked under an arm. Like, even if you attached a handle to it, actually carrying it at your side would be terribly in the way. Unless it was the kind of handle that makes it basically a goremaul.



                        Artifact 1 isn't a thing anymore, and there's a sample level 2 that is a walking stick that can transform into a tree full of conveniences at will.

                        I standardise level 2 Artifacts with the idea that they provide a magic that is convenient, but generally can't accomplish things. It makes life easier for the user, but doesn't really expand capabilities or affect other things. A lot aren't mechanically specific enough to use dice, but when they are it's only the smallest bonuses. The scope probably also should be limited only to the user... yeah, I think even twenty feet is a bit too far.

                        Yasal crystals are a bit of an exception, but they're almost like a category of their own, and the kinds of Charms you might get from the sort of spirit you could keep in a level 2 might very well be no better then the powers of any other level 2 Artifact.

                        they were a thing in 2nd edition - and I haven't moved up to 3rd yet...


                        Malfeas F'Tagn - go check out my epic MLP/Exalted crossover "The Scroll of Exalted ponies" @ Fimfiction

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                          I did intend that to mostly be a good humoured rant anyway.

                          Your point about a sense of installation... that does emphasise the similarity to hearthstones, but the image makes me wonder at some alternatives.

                          Part of it is that, to my eyes, Artifacts of any level kind of rely on a form of proximity to the one attuned to them. I think the attunement rules even make being out of contact for an extended period break the connection. That might be bent a bit for things like automatons that can be sent away on missions, but they have to come back eventually.

                          A measure of independent function logically has to exist, so I mostly think it revolves around First Age Artifice and possibly manses. The former possibly in creating a system that can sustain power for certain Artifacts independent of being attuned.

                          As for the general power of two dots, I look at things like the Collar of Dawn's Cleansing Light, and I think... the actual form of those powers can be virtually anything, while the scope, the point of them is that they lend an air of casual divinity to the user. It's a little piece of magic that makes a certain aspect of your life immaculate, stylish, unburdened, in a manner a bit below the notice of your Exalted or godly Charms. It needs to have its limits, which might mean excluding almost anything that can function as a vehicle, but within the scope of the particular Artifact it gives you a certain privileged status.

                          One thing to note is that the artifacts he's trying to create have been commissioned by the Guild to be ones usable by mortals. Which means it has to be able to operate independently, unless its attuned by willpower or something like Vainglory is. The general usage of artifacts for mortals is still kinda vague in 3e at this point, but I assume there could be artifacts built with that in mind.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Therian View Post
                            One thing to note is that the artifacts he's trying to create have been commissioned by the Guild to be ones usable by mortals.
                            Oh. Missed that.

                            Originally posted by Therian
                            Which means it has to be able to operate independently, unless its attuned by willpower or something like Vainglory is. The general usage of artifacts for mortals is still kinda vague in 3e at this point, but I assume there could be artifacts built with that in mind.
                            Vainglory is doing its own thing. The idea of Artifacts that can be attuned by just anybody strikes me as having the potential to vastly transform the setting, which puts it under First Age Artifice. The assumption that it can just be added as a basic thing seems in error to me.

                            The alternative is regular Artifacts used in combination with powerful sorcery to transform people in a manner that will include becoming able to attune.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                            • #15
                              The base cleanliness power of the Collar of Dawn's Cleansing Light just happens, no attunement required. Similarly, the Lotus Blossom Cup, Stoneheart Coffer, and Winterbreath Jar don't require attunement or motes at all. And the Ultimately Useful Tube only needs essence to magically produce the darts, not anything else it does.

                              As such, I think the bathtub is totally workable. Though I agree that the orbs are probably better replaced by the hearthstones that cover heating and cooling (the Gem of Endless Summer and the Orb of Cool Breezes, respectively), I will say that I could imagine a First Age exalt building a Winterbreath Room or using geomancy to make a manse that was always at a nice temperature.


                              ....

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