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My problem with QC characters.

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  • My problem with QC characters.

    Alright my issue with QC characters is flat out they don’t work like the PCs. I know if I suspend my disbelief or whatever and rearrange my sensibilities it could work out great... but I never liked extras in the other editions and while this is better I still have issues with it. Like I know the different attacks are designed to represent different story challenges while pc attacks are more simulation, like PC Jabs are weak but accurate while QC jabs are just all around crappy.

    Am I the only one? I’ve found I have to do two sets of stats, one my house stats for QCs and two the stats I would adjust if I shared it to people who use the standard rule?

    Anyone else have this trouble?

    I know you can have a fun cinematic experience if you don’t think about it, but for me it kind of breaks immersion and I have more immersion when the stats align with the PC rules. Thoughts?


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    Hmmm... I sometimes have problems with QCs but it doesn't sound the same as yours. Could you give some examples of where the rules differ, that bothers you?


    "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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    • #3
      Nope, don't have this problem at all. The vast majority of QCs are there to make players look and feel like amazing super-powered demigods. They accomplish that while providing a relatively minor threat. So they're working great from my perspective.

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      • #4
        And example being when you look they usually have the jab attack have the same if not lesser accuracy dice then then the stronger attacks.

        I think though the players already seem badass, and dialing down too much makes for those unsatisfying pop culture ninja fights. Where ninjas should be tough but every dork takes the out. Or the finale of Buffy were even Anya is taking out the Ubervamps left and right. It takes you out of it sometimes.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #5
          I don't think QC's are meant to be like extras (just here to make PCs look badass), I think it's more "save the ST the time of fully statting each NPC and saving space in prep". Having tried fully statting an exalted antagonist or two...I prefer the QC format yeah.
          For threat level, its more a Solar thing then a QC thing (I think DBs will face harder challenges).


          I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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          • #6
            Some opponents are just all around worse with their backup weapon. That’s why it’s worthwhile to disarm them.

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            • #7
              Don't quite have the same issue with QC's, though I do have some. Them having a more compact presentation and just the bare bones of what you need in a fight is good.

              I just wish Charms which interact with stats, such as, for example, the Survival familiar buffing Charms would have interacted with the QC presentation instead of directly referencing stuff which isn't detailed in your familiar's write-up, forcing me to unpack the stat-block anyway.

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              • #8
                My issue with QCs is mostly that they aren't that quick, especially for ones with supernatural charms.

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                • #9
                  I wonder if Quick Character characters would be less of an issue for some people if they'd gone with a name that gave more emphasis to the idea of it being something stripped down to its gameplay functions rather than being easy to come up with on the fly.

                  Certainly, I can't see an effective middle ground when it comes to custom making characters with their own supernatural powers; a lot of people at the time seemed to not find the generic spirit Charm lists very engaging, and I for one found them bland and uninteresting in every respect besides specifying a particular spirit's style or limitations*. I recall people finding the custom Charms of the Incarnate to be so good that they wanted more in that vein, but it does seem necessarily more work intensive.

                  I think that even then, credit should be given to the likes of Adversaries and Hundred Devils, with a constant drip of fairly high quality content giving more templates to adopt.

                  I know there are people who think the best alternative is to be given a comprehensive breakdown of how to devise and balance powers, and while I do think it will be interesting to see what Exigents get, I do feel as though a lot of what is asked for with the likes of spirits is kind of unrealistic.


                  * Incidentally, if ever I need to cite something that Second Edition unambiguously did better than First, the mechanical write-ups for spirits would be it. Those things generally looked like an afterthought compared to the actual character bio, the Charm names were immensely generic, you got a lot of supposedly powerful spirits who barely seemed capable of anything, and they didn't even put most of the Charm write-ups in the dedicated spirit book.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                  • #10
                    Honestly I just give them attributes + abilities and run them like pc's. The written characters don't have that so its a chore to convert them; I usually don't bother and just make up my own npc's and critters.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Angwe View Post
                      I just wish Charms which interact with stats, such as, for example, the Survival familiar buffing Charms would have interacted with the QC presentation instead of directly referencing stuff which isn't detailed in your familiar's write-up, forcing me to unpack the stat-block anyway.
                      It's significantly easier to modify the couple charms that interact with stats than to modify every QC you come across, imo. "+1 to all physical ability pools" wouldn't be particularly tricky to figure out as an example. Just my 2 cents, though it's been echoed by Vance.

                      On topic, my GM prefers full character sheets to QCs, because he can make up dice pools faster, but that's just how his brain works. To me it's exactly as fast to make up a full pool size than to come up with 2 stats that make the pool. Personally I love QCs. The only beef I've had is when you have 2 different pools for say "Combat movement" and "Flight" for a bird. Like, isn't it always flying more or less? Why would those pools be different? Small inconsistencies like that.


                      I post Artifacts in this thread. How I make them is in this thread.
                      I have made many tools and other things for 3rd Edition. I now host all of my creations on my Google site: The Vault of the Unsung Hero

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                      • #12
                        If you think a particular QC has too few dice with a particular weapon/attack, then... give them more dice with it.

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                        • #13
                          My issues with QC stem entirely from the places they need to interact with PC mechanics. For example, the aforementioned interaction between survival charms and QC familiar stats are pretty annoying to try and work out without an overhaul of the training charms. The other place this comes up though is with Lunar dice caps in various animal forms. (Vance confirmed my math on this in the Ask the Devs thread before he put out a moratorium on lunar dice cap questions) The QC stats include Attribute, ability AND accuracy all in the same number with no way to separate them out. This means that a lunar with an actual weapon will pretty much always have a higher dice cap than any animal form they can use simply because the accuracy from the weapon counts against the cap in the QC stats, but not in your own form.

                          Things like this aren't exactly deal breakers for me and they can be generally houseruled away, but they're still places where the QC system falls down.


                          Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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                          • #14
                            I agree, when you have some effect that needs to know a stat the QC doesn't have listed, they become more work than a full write-up would be.

                            But, other than that, I find them fine.


                            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                            • #15
                              So, I'm just trying to make sure I know what you're saying, the stats that you come up with for your NPCs use all the base rules, because you have a difficulty with the disconnect between withering and decisive attacks? But I'm not sure how that translates into the PCs being more badass.

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