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magic weapons and armor with no evocations?

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  • #16
    You can use Craft: Artifact to make a hell of a lot more than weapons.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Elfive View Post
      You can use Craft: Artifact to make a hell of a lot more than weapons.
      Silken slippers of spider climb, enchanted ropes, a magic viewing tapestry, a flying carpet, and that's just off the top of my head, with my crafter.

      (His mundane craft is "Weaving.")

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Elfive View Post
        You can use Craft: Artifact to make a hell of a lot more than weapons.
        Definitely! As I said, I think approaching Craft: Artefact as being just about making weapons and armour is going to lead you (not definitely, but probably) into spending a lot of XP for not much gain.
        In my experience, crafting weapons and armour is far less useful that being able to craft, say, castles, airships, prosthetic limbs, towns, etc (though I think crafting magic armour is slightly more useful than magic weapons; it's harder for PCs to acquire in-game, and they're less likely to start with it. I'll also say that I did get few artefacts/superior projects from Craft: Armoursmithing and Weaponsmithing, while I've got no artefacts from my character who has Craft: Alchemy. But that's because he's never had the necessary free time to make any artefacts).

        It sounds like Alucard's done some interesting things with Weaving, which is quite different from Armoursmithing and Weaponsmithing (I mean. I guess you can make Silken Armour with it... but then, Silken Armour is very specifically useful for people who've had to buy an expensive Merit at character creation: Martial Artist characters probably haven't bought a 4-dot set of artefact armour at character gen, and you're probably not going to find it lying around on some Dragonblood you beat up).

        Plus, I think it's easier to argue to your ST that non-weapon artefacts and non-armour artefacts don't need a whole bunch of jade/orichalcum/starmetal/moonsilver/soulsteel, which makes them much more viable.


        Alucard, as someone who's frequently said they've got a lot out of Crafting, could you say a bit more about artefact-crafting, specifically?
        How much investment have you had to put in?
        How have you dealt with the time constraints?
        How have you dealt with acquiring magic materials?
        Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 10-28-2018, 10:44 AM.


        "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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        • #19
          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
          (One other thing: I made my twin short daiklaives and magic hand by melting down and reforging weapons I got from a Thunderbird chieftain we defeated. When I mentioned that on this forum, some people said you can't do that. If that's true, then my Craft Artefacts would be truly useless).
          There's no reason why you can't melt down one artifact weapon to make another, if you don't mind losing the original artifact. (Unless the Storyteller wants to make a plot point of a specific artifact's nigh-indestructibility, I guess; there's no point in hauling the One Ring all the way to Mount Doom if you can just smelt it down in your forge.)


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          • #20
            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
            Even then, that's talking about something like more common line troops, where individual capability can be made up for a bit by the efforts of the collective. It's a bit different for specialists, especially the kinds of people that can wield mystical weaponry.

            And there's, errr… something, something, Dynast assignment of House weaponry... hmm, my enthusiasm for this post had diminished considerably in the last couple of minutes...
            The point was that one can easily be a warrior with access to potent weaponry and yet not dedicate themselves to completely mastering it, because Exalts are humans, and monomaniacal dedication is a rare trait even among the best of us. The fact that someone hasn't picked up any Evocations needs no more explanation than " this character finds puzzling out the inclinations and desires of a semi-sentient hammer frustrating, and they have other things to do."

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
              Alucard, as someone who's frequently said they've got a lot out of Crafting, could you say a bit more about artefact-crafting, specifically?
              I haven't done a lot of artifact-crafting with Spider, a mere handful compared to his thriving clothing business.

              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
              How much investment have you had to put in?
              Two crafts at 5, Craftsman Needs No Tools, and Durability-Enhancing Technique.

              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
              How have you dealt with the time constraints?
              Not sure what you mean.

              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
              How have you dealt with acquiring magic materials?
              Spider lives in Great Forks, where a whole host of spirits that can lend supernatural ingredients to a work of artifice can be bargained with, as well as a bevy of scavenger lords and Guild merchants.

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              • #22
                Some artifacts may simply not be geared to do what you want.

                Evocation trees are a bit like martial arts styles and can shape the behaviour of their wielder to varying degrees that might be undesirable and I don't necessarily mean "evil demon sword that craves the blood of the innocent" they could just be overspecialised for some long obsolete purpose.


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                • #23
                  Yeah, if you've got the Black Jade crossbow Shipbreaker, but you're in the desert, or you're armed with the weaving-daiklaive Distaff but are a skilled warrior with no weaving skills, then you're probably just going to buy Solar archery or melee charms, not evocations. (Fluff-wise, you're going to train your combat skills, rather than try and master the esoteric powers of your weapon that are not actually as useful for you).

                  Alucard, by time constraints I mean the fact it takes several weeks to make an artefact. I rarely have a free few weeks to use making a flying carpet or whatever. I had the time to make a few artefacts with my Night-Caste crafter, but I didn't have time to make other PCs artefacts, or have the time to fix up a broken warstrider, because there was never enough free time, what with running around trying to deal with different problems (the Realm invading being a large one).
                  And in the other game I play, the city's being terrorised by a spectre cult; there's no way I can take a few weeks off to craft artefacts. There's too many pressing problems.
                  Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 10-28-2018, 02:01 PM.


                  "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post

                    There's no reason why you can't melt down one artifact weapon to make another, if you don't mind losing the original artifact. (Unless the Storyteller wants to make a plot point of a specific artifact's nigh-indestructibility, I guess; there's no point in hauling the One Ring all the way to Mount Doom if you can just smelt it down in your forge.)
                    Cool, thanks.


                    "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                    • #25
                      I don't think you're supposed to need a few weeks off in 3e. The time is supposed to be how long it takes around the adventuring you're assumed to be doing.

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                      • #26
                        It's a fair point. The book only says you need to spend "several" hours a day crafting your artefact. Which isn't very exact, but 2-3 hours can probably be fitted around your adventures or quests or whatever.

                        But unfortunately, you've got to take your tools with you, and when my Night was running around spying in places hundreds of miles apart, he couldn't really take his forge with him.
                        So the only time I got to forge was when nothing was happening for a few weeks, which didn't happen much when the Realm's going to invade soon.

                        If I could get my hands on an alchemy lab in the other game though, I could probably produce something every so many sessions, as it's more sedentary and there's generally some time in the day when I'm waiting for other PCs or whatever.
                        I assume that's what Alucard does.

                        (Though we're in the Underworld currently, so that's less viable.)
                        Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 10-28-2018, 02:25 PM.


                        "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Amayad View Post

                          The point was that one can easily be a warrior with access to potent weaponry and yet not dedicate themselves to completely mastering it, because Exalts are humans, and monomaniacal dedication is a rare trait even among the best of us.
                          I... kind of think it's the thing that separates the best of people from everybody else. The things I've read about the training regimens of Olympic athletes, professional fighters, special forces soldiers. And that's just in the physical. The kinds of time that people need to put in to excel in academic and professional fields...

                          And, like, it's the kind of thing you need to do just to be able to compete in those arenas, of which the majority never place top three.

                          Not every Exalt has to be operating at that level, but it's a consideration. And if it's talking about members of the Scarlet Dynasty with Artifacts, if you won't put in that level of dedication to start cultivating their powers, your matriarch will take it off of you and give it to somebody that will.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                            And if it's talking about members of the Scarlet Dynasty with Artifacts, if you won't put in that level of dedication to start cultivating their powers, your matriarch will take it off of you and give it to somebody that will.
                            Of course, if everybody who is the equivalent of a special forces soldier already has a suitable daiklaive that they've dedicated effort to mastering, you might well keep your daiklaive anyway, if you having one you haven't cultivated is still doing you more good than it would do them stored in their footlocker. Depends a lot on just how large the armories of the Dynasty are, and your relative level of favor with your matriarch.

                            Now I'm thinking about those armories and the magical materials. Jade's most common and fully resonant for Dragon-Blooded, and so would be standard.

                            A Dynast being given orichalcum would tend to indicate someone in low enough esteem to not get the expected jade, but still enough that an artifact was appropriate. Soulsteel would mark the grade of favor below that. I suspect sorcerers would tend to wind up with custody of a disproportionate share of the Dynasty's demon-gold and macabre artifacts, which would then reinforce the social view of sorcerers.

                            Moonsilver would tend to draw Lunar attention, and so probably is usually kept in the vaults for safekeeping rather than painting a target on the back of house members. A Dynast with moonsilver is probably an indicator of someone both successful and brash; successful enough to be able to ask for the artifact over matriarchal misgivings, and brash enough to want it despite them. In the last few years, orichalcum and soulsteel will have started to get the same implications, but moonsilver will have stacked up centuries of such characterization.

                            Of course, anything might be issued if the story of an artifact and the role of the Dynast are particularly suited for each other. Starmetal is rare to start and probably tends to get stolen (or traded for, bought, or whatever) by Sidereals, and so isn't going to be seen often; it'll probably always fall under the particularly-suited case.

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                            • #29
                              Starmetal is a rare material that for some reason is traditionally wielded by high-ranking monks.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Verzio View Post
                                Of course, if everybody who is the equivalent of a special forces soldier already has a suitable daiklaive that they've dedicated effort to mastering, you might well keep your daiklaive anyway, if you having one you haven't cultivated is still doing you more good than it would do them stored in their footlocker.
                                That seems utilitarian in a way that doesn't feel particularly characteristic of the Great Houses.

                                For the rest, well... What Fire Has Wrought already has a sidebar on Realm attitudes to the other magical materials. There's an aversion, because they make you look like an outcaste, but otherwise acceptable. Apparently, association with the other Exalted doesn't really enter into it.


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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