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  • #16
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
    Didn't MHS eschew contact with everyone, including the Pact, in order to do his own thing? It seems odd that he's clashing over its policy unless that policy is "step to the side and stay out of my way".
    Between this and a prior reference in a Lunar preview, I'm afraid it looks like they may be stepping away from that portrayal of him.

    Unless it's meant to be read as his cloistering having been relatively recent, or that fight with Raksi having happened a long time ago.

    But I think the reading of it being revised is less strained.


    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

      Between this and a prior reference in a Lunar preview, I'm afraid it looks like they may be stepping away from that portrayal of him.

      Unless it's meant to be read as his cloistering having been relatively recent, or that fight with Raksi having happened a long time ago.

      But I think the reading of it being revised is less strained.

      In fact, MHS can be just as much as a jerk in past editions, but come off as a friend to the Silver Pact-less organization means less oversight and people not realizing he's gone off the deep end. To them, he's just a very old Lunar with a very understandable grudge that leads him to heading a very militant school.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Leliel View Post


        In fact, MHS can be just as much as a jerk in past editions, but come off as a friend to the Silver Pact-less organization means less oversight and people not realizing he's gone off the deep end. To them, he's just a very old Lunar with a very understandable grudge that leads him to heading a very militant school.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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        • #19
          I think Ma-Ha-Suchi changed as of the Third Edition core, for anyone wondering what his basic stance was absent the context of his war with Raksi!

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          • #20
            I like the acknowledgement of modern reasons to oppose the Realm, and the existence of Elders hailing from different periods in Creation’s history. Trying to push Lunars as having a cohesive, setting-wide organisation is never going to make much sense, though. Call it a qualified success.


            There are no problems, only plothooks.
            Terrifying Argent Witches Hub
            Originally posted by Dex Davican
            I need them for my collection: Enormous Gonads of 2012: A Retrospective.

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            • #21
              For the record, long-distance warfare gets a lot easier to pull off when you can bind a Second Circle demon and send it to go mess with your enemy once a month.


              So I'm making God-Kicking Boot, an Exalted webcomic, now. Updates on Sundays. Full-color, mediocre but slowly improving art. It's a thing.

              The absence of a monument can, in its own way, be something of a monument also.
              -Roger Zelazny

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Leliel View Post


                In fact, MHS can be just as much as a jerk in past editions, but come off as a friend to the Silver Pact-less organization means less oversight and people not realizing he's gone off the deep end. To them, he's just a very old Lunar with a very understandable grudge that leads him to heading a very militant school.
                No. 2e had that terrible Nameless Lair writeup, and that past edition can keep it, buried under the other inexplicable Wyld anomalies hiding atrocity centers.

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                • #23
                  I agree with others that this is very cool, gets my brain humming...and I'm also confused about the home base of the Shadow Fang Vanguard. Granted, from that description, I'm assuming they're hanging out up near Halta, which doesn't really seem like the front lines of the War on the Realm or any other "vanguard" type region, but "the Forests of the North East" could be as far in as Medo, technically.

                  Vance, if you're reading this, it might be worth clarifying that a bit.

                  Anyway, the bit about Primordial War Lunars being these devastating god monsters and then changing themselves to fit the First Age inspired me to come up with a Lunar elder. During the late first age, she was a teacher, a friend, a community leader, a kind person who always had some cookies baking and never raised a hand to anyone. While many knew she was a veteran of the Divine Revolution, very few people knew any details of her war record and tended to assume she coordinated things and helped keep spirits up. But, now, she just liked to relax and enjoy life with her spouse and the children she was teaching.

                  When the Usurpation came, due to an oversight, the Dragon Blooded strike team sent against her was not read in on her ancient records and was thus woefully unprepared for "Five Valleys" Sekmet, She of the Impenetrable Coat, the Slayer of Mountains, resuming her true god beast form for the first time in an age.

                  I'm not entirely sure she survived, but I think she could be a fun shahan-ya for a group.


                  ....

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Imrix View Post
                    I like the acknowledgement of modern reasons to oppose the Realm, and the existence of Elders hailing from different periods in Creation’s history. Trying to push Lunars as having a cohesive, setting-wide organisation is never going to make much sense, though. Call it a qualified success.
                    From what I read their organization sounded anything but cohesive.


                    ....

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                      Shahan-ya. I was trying to work out why they used a new term, rather than something more resonant. I couldn't find where it's from. Shahan, of course, means "King (of)" in Persian. (Shahanshah is King of Kings.)
                      What surprises me is that it's explicitly identified as "Old Realm for 'guide' or 'teacher,'" which wouldn't seem to make it an inherently Lunar title. Unless there's an implicit "of Lunars" in the word that would be understood to native Old Realm speakers, I would expect Sidereals and Gods, and possibly other groups as well, to also use the title shahan-ya.

                      I guess this could even be the start of a gradual retcon, phasing out the real-world title "sifu" in favor of an Exalted-specific term, analogous to the use of "daiklave"? But I expect not.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Imrix View Post
                        Trying to push Lunars as having a cohesive, setting-wide organisation is never going to make much sense, though.
                        That would be why there's only twenty of them.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                        • #27
                          I wonder how His Divine Lunar Presence fits into the Vanguard/Pact philosophical split, because he certainly seems to be assuming a position of leadership among Lunars in a direct fight against the Realm, but isn't apparently treated as the Vanguard are by the Silver Pact.

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                          • #28
                            I'd guess it's because he doesn't require the other Lunars on the Caul to join an explicitly hierarchical organisation of which he is the leader.
                            My impression is that he's some kind of charismatic and respected elder leader. So other Lunars on the Caul are happy to take his advice and get behind his plans. Rather than him being the explicit commander of all Lunars on the Caul.

                            I guess also, that's just the Lunars on the Caul. The Shadow Fang Vanguard (still not big into that name) believe that all Lunars should be part of a hierarchical organisation, not just ones in the North-East Forest, they just haven't convinced the rest of the Pact.

                            So even if there are 10 Lunars on the Caul and they did all take orders from Shas Oka, that doesn't mean Shas Oka believes the other 390 Lunars should obey him. It's just a practical organisational thing in a small and discrete area, rather than an ideology.



                            Before I respond to other points, I wanted to point out something I thought was interesting.

                            Holden was very big into barbarianism. He wanted it to be a key theme of Lunars. Not the ideological barbarianism of 1st ed, but a barbarian aesthetic.
                            I haven't particularly got that from any of the 3rd ed fluff we've seen so far. I wonder if it's been dropped.
                            Or, perhaps, since it's aesthetic, it's something that'd maybe be most noticeable in the book's art, not the fluff.


                            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Anaximander View Post
                              I wonder how His Divine Lunar Presence fits into the Vanguard/Pact philosophical split, because he certainly seems to be assuming a position of leadership among Lunars in a direct fight against the Realm, but isn't apparently treated as the Vanguard are by the Silver Pact.
                              There are obviously other Lunars who are followed as leaders of the Pact, but it seems that this is generally a matter of voluntarily rallying around someone. The Vanguard want an actual ordered hierarchy with ranks, a chain of command and enforced uniting laws.


                              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Leliel View Post


                                In fact, MHS can be just as much as a jerk in past editions, but come off as a friend to the Silver Pact-less organization means less oversight and people not realizing he's gone off the deep end. To them, he's just a very old Lunar with a very understandable grudge that leads him to heading a very militant school.
                                When I was discussing Ma-Ha-Suchi with Isator Levi a while ago, he reminded to actually go and re-read Ma-Ha-Suchi's description carefully.

                                Originally posted by Exalted 3rd edition
                                Ma-Ha-Suchi survived the destruction of the First Age, exile in the Wyld, the scourge of the Contagion and the armies of chaos, and he carries his scars with sullen pride. He greets visitors in his war form, a towering amalgam of man, wolf, and goat, and speaks in a voice like silver bells. Those who rouse his attention without good cause die on the end of his moonsilver lance, and their skulls mark the boundary of his domain.
                                Ma-Ha-Suchi’s territory abuts the southern terminus of the Scavenger Lands, and shields the wealthy empires of the deep Southeast from the Realm-controlled coastal states—not that the ancient Lunar harbors love for any of his neighbors. His beast-blooded children raid the surrounding lands ceaselessly. They suffer no permanent roads to be laid through their father’s dominion, and harry what river traffic is bold enough to dare their wrath. Only those who purchase Ma-Ha-Suchi’s temporary goodwill through lavish tribute may pass safely through his domain, and then only if the great beast is in the mood to be honored or flattered.
                                Made both wrathful and weary by the turning of the ages, Ma-Ha-Suchi shuns the politics of the Exalted. He will occasionally trade rumors or choice bits of magical plunder with respectful envoys from the Silver Pact, and has at times consented to take younger Lunars under his guidance for a year or two—but for the most part, he maintains his solitude. He does not speak of the personal significance of his jungle ruins, nor is he interested in the greater schemes of luminaries such as Sha’a Oka or the Queen of Fangs. Luna has granted him strength of arm, quicksilver wits, keen eyes to witness the decay of the world, and endless enemies who wish to spend their lives failing to take his territory for their own. For seven centuries, that has been enough.
                                Clearly, he's still isolationist in terms of the Pact as a whole. But there's a distinct lack of a)him being insane, and b)having a particularly militant ideology. I mean, he's just a barbarian king, doing what barbarian kings do, defending his territory. There's no "we must conquer the Realm, tear down its cities and slay every single Dragonblood."

                                Perhaps that was the direction they went to war over? Maybe Raksi wanted the Pact to be more organised, and he didn't?


                                "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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