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[Dev Blog] The Lunar Exalted

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  • Ghosthead
    replied
    Originally posted by Lundgren View Post
    Your interpretation must have made the Sids extremely understaffed for a couple of decades after the Great Contagion, instead of staffed with a lot of inexperienced Sids. That is, if the Sids lost a lot of their numbers as 2ed hints at.
    Hmm... I mean, they probably did and were, but a combination of having Fate on your side and rigging things along those lines and Sidereals being able to do Great Contagion medical care for their own lot (but unable to scale to the population as a whole; I mean, Citrine Poxes Style is pretty cool, for one) may have ended up arranging matters so that didn't happen as much. Though I don't know if 2nd hints they lost 9/10 of their numbers or something (oh 2nd, you incorrigible little scamp).

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  • Ghosthead
    replied
    Originally posted by Lundgren View Post
    Yeah, I guess I have to agree. I mean, the Maidens did inform the Sids they missed such an important thing as the Great Contagion, right?
    Er... like, is the idea that the Maidens don't ever tell their chosen anything, give them any orders, send them any messages, etc.? I don't think that's the canon! Or that they are as good at perceiving and passing on information about who they have themselves exalted as a vast out of fate conspiracy by the Deathlords, with huge implications that they may have mysterious reasons for allowing to unfold as the collapse of civilization?

    Like, I can see that they might consciously manipulate events to that outcome to serve some end (the Maidens are pretty much carte blanche characters to do whatever because they see and understand further than you can), with the big assumption that they can tell who Luna will choose (which is a big assumption I have more trouble with being in their purview actually, as a bit of an exception to their general foresight). Fodder for a weird NPC with divided loyalties and unusual history, raised in one house, come to power in another and so on, go for it (if you're willing to make that big assumption). But making a mistake themselves about it, or not passing the info on without such designs seems weird.

    (Though, mind, the Maidens actually telling the Sidereals about such a mistake is in my post actually the least of the hurdles I'd see it falling at, the main being the Sidereals own insight into their own nature and what is consistent with one who shows that nature before they are Exalted.).

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  • Lundgren
    replied
    Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
    Hmmm... My understanding is that, when a Sidereal dies, an unborn child is destined to inherit that Exaltation, much like how it works for the Dali Lama. Said destined children are usually left in place to fulfill their fates and Exalt, though I suspect they’re watched to make sure they live that long. After they Exalt, they’re scooped up and taken to Heaven for their real training.

    Sometimes said children are taken up to Heaven right after they’re born and raised as Sidereals to be, but it’s a pretty rare circumstance.
    Interesting. That don't match my interpretation of 2nd edition. Is that from 1st edition?

    This is from 2ed's MoEP: Sidereals
    Historically, elder Sidereals had considerable advance
    notice when one of the Five-Score Fellowship was destined
    to die and which mortal would take the Sidereal’s place. In
    the First Age, mortals destined for Sidereal Exaltation were
    often spirited away from their families at a young age, to be
    trained in their future duties. Before the Usurpation, the
    Chosen of Endings had refined the process so well that a
    future Sidereal would usually be actively employed by his
    division in some menial capacity, prepared to take over
    his duties at the very moment of Exaltation. Those days
    are long gone.
    Your interpretation must have made the Sids extremely understaffed for a couple of decades after the Great Contagion, instead of staffed with a lot of inexperienced Sids. That is, if the Sids lost a lot of their numbers as 2ed hints at.

    As such, for one of those children to end up as a Lunar seems improbable enough that it can’t just be a mistake.
    I agree, because in that case they have sort of already Exalted; just not with any powers yet.

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  • BrilliantRain
    replied
    Hmmm... My understanding is that, when a Sidereal dies, an unborn child is destined to inherit that Exaltation, much like how it works for the Dali Lama. Said destined children are usually left in place to fulfill their fates and Exalt, though I suspect they’re watched to make sure they live that long. After they Exalt, they’re scooped up and taken to Heaven for their real training.

    Sometimes said children are taken up to Heaven right after they’re born and raised as Sidereals to be, but it’s a pretty rare circumstance.

    As such, for one of those children to end up as a Lunar seems improbable enough that it can’t just be a mistake.

    That said, if I was running a Sid focused game and one of the players came to me with this background, I’d probably allow it with the proviso that whoever or whatever caused this whole sequence of events was going to become part of the campaign and that it meant that someone wanted your group to do something that required a Lunar bad enough to arrange this whole mess.

    Basically rather than random happenstance, I’d make it enemy action and let that help drive the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lundgren
    replied
    Yeah, I guess I have to agree. I mean, the Maidens did inform the Sids they missed such an important thing as the Great Contagion, right?

    If it is possible for a "fated for a Sidereal exaltation" to exalt as a Solar or Lunar, it still is such a small chance it most likely only happen at the most once or twice during the entire existence of creation. So not wanting it still makes it easy to put in the "it didn't even happened once" category.

    Otherwise, it is in the "this is more important than the GC" category.

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  • Ghosthead
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    That's a good point. [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
    Thanks. This discussion and Celestial Bureaucracy accommodating strange and quirky and other Exalted moves my mind to considering Exigents (but that's a tangent).

    Re: the Sidereal Lunar thing, it seems really improbable for the Sidereals to a) first mistake a person as a potential Sidereal (getting that bad a read on someone's essence) and not be corrected by the Maidens or events and b) that person then to be Exalted as a Lunar, whether I guess, metaphysically, the Exaltation is *in* them or not yet...

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  • Lundgren
    replied
    Originally posted by Blaque View Post

    It actually depends on a bit. As I understand at least before, while a Sidereal's Exaltation is not foretold, it is fated. They're in effect born already with the Exaltation in 1e at least. It's just the Second Breath is something that's fated to occur later. As kind of already noted, if you were going to Exalt a Sidereal, you're a Sidereal. If youw eren't, you never were going to be.

    Note also in context of 3e, the nature of "out of Fate" as a big "Sidereals can'ta ccount for this and have something big of their thematics not work" is probably not as prevalant. We laso don't know how thier Great Curse operates anymore. In addition, the Maidens still pick likely lifetimes they think fit the needs of their Chosen. I am pretty sure they are good at telling Luna "That one is mine already" if need be.
    Besides how "out of fate" may work, what the Sids think is fated and what the Maidens think is fated may not be the same. A "fated to become a Sidereal, but becomes a Lunar" might also have been fated by the Maidens, but comes as a shock for the Sids.

    I don't see that as conflicting with anything I've read and remembers from either of the previous edition, and not really a conflict with what I've seen of third either from what I've seen so far. Still, I seems to read Exalted a tad different everyone else

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  • Elfive
    replied
    I think the way sidereal exaltation works is that the exaltation actually "occurs" at birth but sits around dormant for a decade or two until the new sidereal is ready.

    So you can no more exalt a sidereal to be than you could a solar or dragon blooded.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blaque
    replied
    Originally posted by Lundgren View Post
    Oh, I disagree.

    Just that the odds that a Lunar shard would be available and a Sid to be would be selected is so slim it has probably never happened.

    Out of Fate stuff can change things so what the Sids believe should happen, and what actually transpires isn't always the same. Just this isn't something they can correct, as that person now isn't available anymore for a Sid Exaltation. Considering how the Great Curse affects Sids, I would say it just isn't anything they ever contemplated.

    After all, not everyone becoming a Sid have been foretold to become one
    It actually depends on a bit. As I understand at least before, while a Sidereal's Exaltation is not foretold, it is fated. They're in effect born already with the Exaltation in 1e at least. It's just the Second Breath is something that's fated to occur later. As kind of already noted, if you were going to Exalt a Sidereal, you're a Sidereal. If youw eren't, you never were going to be.

    Note also in context of 3e, the nature of "out of Fate" as a big "Sidereals can'ta ccount for this and have something big of their thematics not work" is probably not as prevalant. We laso don't know how thier Great Curse operates anymore. In addition, the Maidens still pick likely lifetimes they think fit the needs of their Chosen. I am pretty sure they are good at telling Luna "That one is mine already" if need be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lundgren
    replied
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    That's not really compatible with how Sidereals have been presented. You're either going to be a Sidereal (and thus aren't eligible to become a Lunar), or you aren't (and thus aren't going to be groomed to become a Sidereal).
    Oh, I disagree.

    Just that the odds that a Lunar shard would be available and a Sid to be would be selected is so slim it has probably never happened.

    Out of Fate stuff can change things so what the Sids believe should happen, and what actually transpires isn't always the same. Just this isn't something they can correct, as that person now isn't available anymore for a Sid Exaltation. Considering how the Great Curse affects Sids, I would say it just isn't anything they ever contemplated.

    After all, not everyone becoming a Sid have been foretold to become one

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    That's not really compatible with how Sidereals have been presented. You're either going to be a Sidereal (and thus aren't eligible to become a Lunar), or you aren't (and thus aren't going to be groomed to become a Sidereal).

    Leave a comment:


  • Lundgren
    replied
    There is always the difference of what is common, rare, or unique. So even if Sids don't have any interest on taking on a Lunar that have shown to align with their interest, there is always that sliver of a chance one of those being indoctrinated in Yu-Shan in preparation for being a Sid becomes a Lunar instead.

    In that case, there is the option to kill the Lunar, and it will Exalt somewhere else in someone most likely not in favor of the Sids way of seeing thing; put the poor sap on something unimportant, or see the Lunar as a potential asset.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Blaque
    This got kind of effed up with things like the Bureau of Seasons being ran in the First Age by a Solar.


    Whereabouts was that? The closest thing that I know of to it was the Solar Deliberative being the ones who designed Creation's climate, which the Bureau of Seasons was then required to implement.

    Originally posted by Blaque
    In that kind of context, Lunars working in various branches of the Celestila Hierarchy isn't so strange.
    I think that's a bit reductive, unless elaborated on.

    Originally posted by Blaque
    If in 3e there's a bit more stirct well, "Exalts rule Earth" while the Dragons of Heaven and Sidereals are kind of the exception due to loop holes, that would be a way to work on that. Exalts don't get Heavenly jobs normally as those jobs aren't for Exalts.
    I'm less concerned with making up rules for Heaven than I am with everything I was talking about with the aesthetic elements of different Exalted having their structural niches. A bloodline of Dragon Blooded living in Yu-Shan, with some members uncommonly working for the Celestial Order, violates that less for me when the other side to "Dragon Blooded slot is in ruling the Realm" would be them having slots in being organised groups in dedicated service to another.

    Originally posted by Ghosthead
    Particularly because the Bureaucracy of Heaven encompasses some pretty strange and quirky gods who I would guess probably have wilder natures (and natures less suited to being part of a bureaucracy) than the Lunars.
    That's a good point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghosthead
    replied
    In agreement really with Verzio and Blaque's emphasis I think (I say emphasis because I think it is emphasis and not a disagreement on the total range of factors?).

    I'm more comfortable with presenting it that it's not improbable that out of the 400(?), there's not one who has been approached at the right time with the balance of incentives and personal history, who is still alive.

    I'm less comfortable with departing from the idea that Exalts who don't serve in Heaven are ill fit to serve in Heaven for reasons that other than because this violates the compact with the Exalted and because their gods do not believe (correctly or incorrectly) this best suits their talents. Particularly because the Bureaucracy of Heaven encompasses some pretty strange and quirky gods who I would guess probably have wilder natures (and natures less suited to being part of a bureaucracy) than the Lunars.

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  • Blaque
    replied
    In previous editions, they have in a way been unclear about Exalts working in Heaven. SIdereals working for the Bureaus was often presented as a loophole and there was supposed to be almost a separation of Heaven and Earth on governments. This got kind of effed up with things like the Bureau of Seasons being ran in the First Age by a Solar. In that kind of context, Lunars working in various branches of the Celestila Hierarchy isn't so strange.

    If in 3e there's a bit more stirct well, "Exalts rule Earth" while the Dragons of Heaven and Sidereals are kind of the exception due to loop holes, that would be a way to work on that. Exalts don't get Heavenly jobs normally as those jobs aren't for Exalts.

    Leave a comment:

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