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[Dev Blog] The Lunar Exalted

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  • Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
    I’m gonna just say that “The Monkey King beats up Heaven” is too cool a classic image to entirely forbid it from Exalted.
    Classic images get a lot of leeway, because they don't need to function within a balanced game or consistent setting.


    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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    • I don't think there's anything stopping you having a lunar in heaven as an antagonistic force. It's more the "Yeah, they just live there, openly. Everyone's cool with that" thing that needs a bit of thought put into it.

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      • We had a getmetian who was employed as a consultant by the Sidereals--I'd be suprised a Lunar would be impossible.
        ...
        ...Of course, the Monkey King is a high essence lunar, who gets his job by being to powerful to ignore and actually winning almost every fight he has. That would be ...a bizzare character, because it brings to mind an Elder Lunar, camping out in the Heavens.


        I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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        • Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

          All of my animosity and confusion is quite genuine. All the references still don't line up in my point of view, and likely still wouldn't even if a bunch of people didn't name a fan project "Terrible Argent Witches" after razzing on me, personally, in threads about various Lunar topics such as the spirit shape back in 2012. Well, the insults were a bit more serious than that, but I would have left it there, had Revlid not decided back after new year's 2015 to revisit many of the same topics in a couple of attack posts on the GITP mega thread because I dared to voice issues with TAW.

          And then Revlid got hired as a freelancer to work on Lunars, so there's no staying in a different part of the community and ignoring him. So there's that to consider, too, but I think I'm edging up on a ban for talking about that on this forum. I might as well try to quit Exalted again like in July... not that it worked very well, as you can tell from the fact that I eventually came back. There's no landing zone for that launch; just crashing back into the pad. In any case, apologies for not divulging that sooner, but my head is not in a good place.



          That was in tandem with a reference to Old Man Spider, so it still didn't and doesn't click in my head. It was also jarring to me at the time he made it because of the longtime "claim" on the character held by V:tM, and this was back around 2002. It's still jarring to me that it sticks with other people, because first edition Lunars were reportedly the very essence of 11th hour design changes, a lack of any sort of structure or outline, and other various issues, like the method of producing beastfolk.

          But if that's the direction, I guess that's the direction.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
          Is be rather sad if you left and stayed gone.

          Far to many people take things to seriously here, including you , but over all you’ve been quite insightful, especially on matters concerning biology, and linguistics. And too many acronyms! I forgot everyone’s old avatars and names back in the day! I know I sometimes confused Saur ops with Tornado Wolf but I know they is actually Sunder Dragon.


          It is a time for great deeds!

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          • Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
            We had a getmetian who was employed as a consultant by the Sidereals--I'd be suprised a Lunar would be impossible.
            We don't know his exact status, I remember being disapointed by Marilaq a'Lam because I thought the idea of Malfeas having an ambassador in Yu-Shan might open the way to an Infernal Exalt eventually holding the position. Unfortunately Marilaq was both a prisoner and another in a long, long line of Yozi trojan horses, that doesn't mean my dreams of cold war style politics between Heaven and Hell were crushed but that if it happens it'll be in spite of her not because of her.



            The Freedom Stone is back, help it to live again.

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            • I’m supposing that schools have to be political and a-geological, so that storytellers and players can have characters of whatever school they please regardless of geography.

              Shahan-ya was, I think, one of the highest of First Editions preponderance of ranks; fitting for Lunars with potentially global influence.

              It also leaves room for re-using one of the lower ranks to denote a lesser teacher/mentor figure who is more geographically oriented and available.


              Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

              My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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              • Originally posted by Epee102
                We had a getmetian who was employed as a consultant by the Sidereals--I'd be suprised a Lunar would be impossible.


                I think that a Getimian working for the Bureau of Destiny is something that would make more sense even if there ends up being considerable animosity between those Exalted, because even if the powers are different, they're still operating on a similar axis.

                A Lunar feels rather out of place on grounds of both the significant bad blood, and maybe not really having the appropriate skill set.


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                  I think that a Getimian working for the Bureau of Destiny is something that would make more sense even if there ends up being considerable animosity between those Exalted, because even if the powers are different, they're still operating on a similar axis.

                  A Lunar feels rather out of place on grounds of both the significant bad blood, and maybe not really having the appropriate skill set.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
                  I suppose it is possible that the Sidereals could attempt to pull a Cult of the Illuminated with Lunars, getting to them before existing Lunars just after Exaltation and selling them a technically true but biased narrative.

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                  • Maybe, but, again, Lunars lack the means to weave the threads of destiny. What would a Lunar in the employ of Heaven even do?

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                    • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                      Maybe, but, again, Lunars lack the means to weave the threads of destiny. What would a Lunar in the employ of Heaven even do?
                      I think they learned their lesson about letting Exalted tend the Peaches of Immortality long ago, so that’s out. A meaningless bureaucratic position might work?

                      I mean, if the whole point is to take the Lunar out of circulation, then having them work a random desk job for the rest of their life seems doable in theory.


                      ....

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                      • I strongly suspect that being able to actually Weave destinies is a useful but non-core aspect of the fact that this is an Exalt. Titan slaying god-weapons incarnated in the more-than-mortal flesh of a hero chosen by the greatest of the gods to work their will upon the dusty planes of earth.

                        If Heaven can't find something productive to do with a loyal Lunar, they are either incredibly uncreative or possessed of the sort of institutional blindness that precedes a terrible collapse when someone with a modicum of flexibility notices them.

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                        • Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                          I mean, if the whole point is to take the Lunar out of circulation, then having them work a random desk job for the rest of their life seems doable in theory.
                          With Essence Fever? Captain, no it doesn't.

                          At least the Cult of the Illuminated sells Solars a narrative that tells them they're destined for greatness and doing things that Solars are already inclined to do, it just tries to steer them along a particular moral axis. Exactly what narrative is one trying to sell a fresh Lunar, that they're likely to particularly buy into?

                          It makes me think about how the writers of Manual: Infernals talked about how the Yozi mechanisms to try to entice the Green Sun Princes were ultimately crude and doomed to failure, because there was nothing they could offer that those Exalted couldn't eventually realise that they could acquire for themselves.


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                          • Originally posted by Exthalion View Post
                            I strongly suspect that being able to actually Weave destinies is a useful but non-core aspect of the fact that this is an Exalt. Titan slaying god-weapons incarnated in the more-than-mortal flesh of a hero chosen by the greatest of the gods to work their will upon the dusty planes of earth.

                            If Heaven can't find something productive to do with a loyal Lunar, they are either incredibly uncreative or possessed of the sort of institutional blindness that precedes a terrible collapse when someone with a modicum of flexibility notices them.
                            I liked this post, but a counter argument: Heaven is by canon mostly a huge, corrupt structure that does not achieve much that is productive other than the enrichment of the gods, and as a venue for status and rank games of the gods. This is not to say that it's incompetent in defending its interests, but does not offer much unless you are content to live a life of luxury among beings that are not exactly human (in the manner of the something like the gods of Spirited Away and the Gods of Pegana and the like).

                            (Because of the necessities of the game that an actual, active, functional modern massive bureaucratic government staffed by literal deities would probably not lead to a world that looks much like the Age of Sorrows!).

                            The Bureau of Destiny is about the only branch that's somewhat functional or active in the world (and because being a Sidereal wouldn't be interesting if it weren't), and that's not a place for Lunar Exalted's talents to be used in the manner that even a Getimian's talents accommodated.

                            (Of course, this all was easier with the assumptions of earlier editions, but I think you can still swing it with what we know).

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                            • Considering there's a ton we don't know about Lunars in this edition and what they're capable of. And the few charms we do have suggest Lunars are really good at working over spirits to get what they want I...don't see how folks are coming to the conclusion that Lunars are suddenly fucked. At the bare minimum you have someone with a ton of flexibility that can be tossed at any problem and come out reasonably well unless it completely outclasses them. Just by nature of Attribute Excellencies and stunting in other attributes to increase the cap.

                              Heaven is way more than just the Bureau of Destiny. The other Departments and Bureaus would love to have an Exalt willing to go into Creation and troubleshoot problems for them.

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                              • Originally posted by Monghani View Post
                                I...don't see how folks are coming to the conclusion that Lunars are suddenly fucked.
                                Why, neither do I!

                                ...Is... is it there at all?

                                Originally posted by Monghani
                                At the bare minimum you have someone with a ton of flexibility that can be tossed at any problem and come out reasonably well unless it completely outclasses them. Just by nature of Attribute Excellencies and stunting in other attributes to increase the cap.
                                Are characters really thinking in terms of their respective dice caps?

                                I know that's kind of nitpicky, it just strikes me as a really underwhelming example to give.

                                Originally posted by Monghani
                                Heaven is way more than just the Bureau of Destiny. The other Departments and Bureaus would love to have an Exalt willing to go into Creation and troubleshoot problems for them.
                                Yes, and people in Hell want the suffering of all humanity in perpetuity. This line of discussion doesn't really go into what Lunars are getting out of the situation, and feels like it does them a bit of a disservice in its approach of treating them like employees to be headhunted.

                                With the Sidereal Exalted, that they're functionaries of a system that is larger than themselves is kind of foundational to their image, so it becomes a thing that justifies itself several times over, from the process of their Exaltation to the form and structure of their powers, and this time around probably in the sensibilities conveyed in their Essence (to the point where I'm kind of expecting them to get something more of an Essence Tranquility, or other term that conveys that they're driven to preserve and sustain the harmony of reality's pattern, in lieu of personal grandeurs). They're designed from the ground up to slot into that kind of hierarchical environment.

                                Lunars not only aren't, it's arguable that they'll have a lot of sensibilities that are kind of contrary to that, even before considering any elements such as them all basically having a deeply ingrained psychological hangup about the Realm and the Sidereals that even the ones who don't care about the past want to violently divest themselves of.

                                Plus the whole thing that just kind of falls into referring to Lunars in an abstract aggregate, rather than any specific personages; in a context of big operational systems, that works more for the Sidereals (who play up their having less flexibility as an asset) and the Dragon Blooded (numerous enough that one can both have a greater array of personalities to sift through for specific qualities, and inclined to form into hierarchical organisations in their own right), but less so for Lunars.

                                In short, it's kind of the same problem as when people have talked about a Lunar having a pet bloodline of non-descript Dragon Blooded, just going in the opposite direction. I think a lot of those details would plausibly make the situation sufficiently more complicated than "they're powerful enough to be generally useful" to make it consistent for the setting to not include one or more Lunars that have been indoctrinated into a general service to Heaven.

                                Plus, as their powers to deal with spirits go, considering examples such as them having arcane insights into offering highly valued chiminage, and what I'm going to presume are some very fearsome powers to intimidate, I think that many in Yu-Shan might not consider them the best choice to bring people into line, either in terms of reinforcing bad habits or being pretty damn alienating.

                                I can imagine situations in which an emissary of Heaven might seek out a particularly renowned or well-placed Lunar to try and bargain for them to do a specific thing on a case by case basis, but that's more an arrangement between peers, or making a diplomatic overture to a sovereign nation of one, than bringing a Lunar into the fold as somebody that you can just hand down orders to. I think they're less well suited to being part of the CIA than occasionally being the Afghani mujahedeen when you want some bloody mayhem inflicted on Soviets.

                                (which might also have cases where Sidereals are foresighted enough to say "this kind of support is a really bad idea in the long run)


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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