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  • My point is, the gods aren’t hypocrites for wanting Salem to respect life more than she does, because even her own kind expect that from her, and the gods aren’t asking her to respect life as much as they do. (And neither of them agree on how important life is, to begin with.)

    And how much they respect mortal life is clearly influenced by how easily they can just bring everyone back and make them immortal whenever they feel like it, with any time spent being dead apparently feeling like no time at all to people.

    Ozma had no idea how much time had passed since his last death and the day he was first reincarnated in another person; indeed, he found “death” more pleasant than life, given that the first time he was brought back he panicked, and he declined the offer to return to life until he learned the woman he loved was left behind on Remnant.


    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

    My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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    • Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
      My point is, the gods aren’t hypocrites for wanting Salem to respect life more than she does, because even her own kind expect that from her, and the gods aren’t asking her to respect life as much as they do. (And neither of them agree on how important life is, to begin with.)
      No, but they sure are hypocrites for refusing to bring a man back to life because it would screw with the balance of life and death, then bringing that same man back to life to fix the problem they created.

      Hey, ShinyGod, if you just did that in the first place....

      Beings that actually give a shit about mortal lives do not commit global genocide in a fit of pique, generally.
      Last edited by Amayad; 12-06-2018, 09:56 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Amayad View Post
        No, but they sure are hypocrites for refusing to bring a man back to life because it would screw with the balance of life and death, then bringing that same man back to life to fix the problem they created.
        But the Light God didn't bring Ozma back to life. He sent his ghost back to cohabit with someone. Apparently, that's different enough to appease his brother.

        If the Light God had done what Salem wanted, then it would have been his brother storming his sanctum to demand he play by the rules.

        And if that didn't happen immediately, then humanity would be storming his pool on their own, demanding that he resurrect all of THEIR loved ones too. Because contrary to what Salem thinks, she's not anyone special who deserved special treatment.

        The Light God had to say No to her the same way he had to say No to everyone else who asked him for the same thing.

        The God of Death might have been willing to act against his own philosophy to gift the first mortal to ever come to him for help, but if Salem had never come to him because his brother had started handing out resurrections, the God of Death would likely take it pretty badly. He already seemed to see the rules he'd agreed to as stacked against him, so his brother breaking the rules to appeal even more to the mortals would surely drive him over the edge.

        Then everyone would die.


        Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

        My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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        • Originally posted by Amayad View Post

          No, but they sure are hypocrites for refusing to bring a man back to life because it would screw with the balance of life and death, then bringing that same man back to life to fix the problem they created.

          Hey, ShinyGod, if you just did that in the first place....

          Beings that actually give a shit about mortal lives do not commit global genocide in a fit of pique, generally.
          To be fair that was the dark brother and he didn't seem to give too much of a crap about it considering his reason for bringing Ozma back boiled down to, "Finally someone comes to me to ask a favor instead of my brother. I've never had worshippers before, what would you like so I may prove that I am way better than my brother. Which, you clearly know since you came here first, but we're proving this to everyone else too."

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          • Basically, the God of Darkness doesn't much care for rules, so the only way to make him care about the rules is to never break them yourself, lest he has cause to say that the rules mean nothing.

            But because he doesn't care about the rules, he'll glad break them himself on a whim, though his brother can hold him sternly enough to his word that he gives up and toes the line again.


            Originally posted by Murcushio View Post
            This part is tricky, because Salem isn't the only one with agency here. The Gods have it as well, as do the other people involved. Nobody had to sign onto Salem's agenda of "Murder the Gods. Topple their thrones. Steal their power, and make it yours." She was lying to them, but the lie itself isn't one that really makes you look good for responding to it with "Divine murders to make myself immortal? Oh fuck the hell yes. Sign me up!"

            Similarly, the God of Darkness doesn't really look good for deciding "this pathetic attack, which did not, in fact, pose any kind of threat to me at all, warrants genocide and global disaster as a response." Whatever else Salem might have done, that's not on her.
            Oh, agreed. Didn't mean to suggest otherwise.


            Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

            My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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            • Though I think Salem did make one heck of a leap from the observed bit that they aren't all knowing to the assumption that it means they aren't omnipotent or close enough that its academic from a mortal perspective.

              Though my current hypothesis is Salem is looking to go for apotheosis by swiping the power of the gods. Makes the most sense if we're operating under the idea that she wants the relics to summon those things as opposed to wanting the relics in places where no one else will ever get them lest the world somehow get a passing grade on judgement day and the gods decide to wipe her out rather than dealing with her being a nuisance in the new world. Plus we had that bug that stole maiden powers in season 3 which so screams lower scale model to me when you've got the brothers in the bleachers.

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              • nah, I think whatever she's trying to do, it has more to do with spiting Oz*** than anything to do with the gods. listen to her monologues. And the lyrics to Divide. It's all directed at Oz*** himself, not just his as an obstacle.

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                • oh seems this episode had an alternate ending :

                  https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...36/437/2e7.png

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                  • Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                    Because contrary to what Salem thinks, she's not anyone special who deserved special treatment.
                    But she is held as special and given special treatment by the gods: They casually kill everyone to try to teach her a lesson. No one's life is as important as whether she understands.
                    If that's not special treatment, what is?


                    I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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                    • She wasn't anyone special at first. Then she made a bit of an impression on the dark god.

                      And recall, he's the one who killed everyone, so he's the one who chose to spare her.

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                      • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                        She wasn't anyone special at first. Then she made a bit of an impression on the dark god.

                        And recall, he's the one who killed everyone, so he's the one who chose to spare her.
                        He spared her even earlier than that, when he blasted her and Ozma with dark fire but she was left untouched even as the ground under her was scorched.

                        Which is part of what makes me think the God of Light decided that she had become someone special, in a way.

                        It is after that that the God of Life stopped her from provoking his brother further and then cursed her with immorality that could only be broken if she accepted the lesson the Older Brother has been trying to teach his Younger Brother this whole time.

                        Because maybe it will be more persuasive to the Dark Brother if the lesson comes from the first mortal to approach him, the only mortal to try manipulating him, the mortal who has been as cavalier about others’ lives as he has.


                        Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                        My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                        • That doesn't really scan for me, Sunder the Gold. From the moment Salem approaches them with her army, the gods more or less act as one. Neither tries to stop the other from killing all of humanity, or leaving, and we are left with the impression that the whole relic-judgment thing is both of them acting together. Both gods will return and judge humanity, not one or the other, both of them.

                          But judge humanity on what? Things they don't agree on themselves? Things they are evidently incapable of effectively teaching?

                          That's my issue with the unknowable alien thing: They act as though they are examples to humans, but they can't be if they act so inhumanly. And if they're not, the whole judgment aspect falls flat on its face as a story element.

                          I think (or hope?) that these conflicts in the story will be discovered by the main characters once they have some time to think things through, and that this will open the path to the Third Option (talk the gods down from their high horse).


                          I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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                          • Well, the eponymous character of Episode 7 has just about the coolest new weapon we've seen since season 3 or so. It's very Exalted-like as well! If someone hasn't come up with something similar already, it wouldn't surprise me if it gets homebrew'd soon.

                            I'm thinking... White Jade? Magnetism is an aspect of Earth, after all. Although looking at the character as whole, it's very much a Chosen of Endings shtick, which naturally points towards Starmetal, with the two pieces "destined" to meet and part.

                            What do you all think?

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                            • I'm not sure starmetals destiny stuff is usually so literal, but yeah, white jade could fit. I think she was supposed to be using gravity dust in-universe, so earth fits well there.

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                              • White jade with moonsilver elements. White jade for gravity and magnetism; moonsilver for changing forms, pair-bonding, and duality.


                                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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