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Regarding the Hundred Devils Night Parade

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  • Regarding the Hundred Devils Night Parade

    Hello all,

    In this week's Monday Meeting Notes, a few more additions to the Hundred Devils Night Parade and Adversaries of the Righteous were announced. Upon seeing them, one of my friends said: "Looks like we're getting another Generic Fantasy Monster and yet another undead." While I consider this a bit of an emotional reaction, I do agree that we've been getting a lot of undead in the Hundred Devils Night Parade. Thus, I decided to do some short research to determine how the numbers stack up.

    In this Google sheets document, I've entered every NPC we've gotten in Hundred Devils Night Parade and gave them whatever classification I figure most appropriate. Note that I did not make separate entries for Animal and Magical Animal, so the Animal category might end up a bit on the big side. The big takeaway is the chart, however.

    So, the Animal category is the largest, but that's not too surprising. Not only is it much more of a catch-all category, but it is also a kind of creature that is used by players in the form of familiars.
    The Undead category is the second-largest, taking up a quarter (9/36). However, these creatures are much less broadly useful. Without necromancy, player characters can't summon undead. Which brings us to the biggest reason I think the undead feel excessive: the players can't use them, while we've barely gotten any Demon or Elemental creatures. My players regularly bemoan the lack of summonable Demons and Elementals for their sorcerer characters.

    In conclusion, the Hundred Devils Night Parade does have a rather large amount of Undead and is lacking in Demons and Elementals. I think a lot of players would be happy with a few more Demons and Elementals.

  • #2
    To be fair, previous editions had a veritable plethora of gods, demons, and elementals across all power levels.

    Meanwhile, the only kinds of Underworld boojums were:

    •Ghosts (which had a few statted examples but otherwise had to be built from scratch; also, they all had only the limited list of Arcanoi to choose from, and were full of arbitrary limitations and thus pretty underwhelming)
    •Plasmics and other Underworld fauna (which could actually be pretty fun, but tended to be overlooked)
    •Deathlords (which were assumed to have all Solar and Abyssal Charms they met the prereqs for, and all ghost Arcanoi regardless; they also had the highest mote pool formula in the game, and were uniformly Essence 10 and immune to being permanently killed save for ST fiat - in short, fuck that)
    •Necrotech ('nuff said)

    I'm excited to see more Underworld stuff, considering how drab and unappealing its presentation was in 2e.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 11-27-2018, 04:46 AM.

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    • #3
      A lot of this is stuff was cut from the Ex3 core, so the number of wyld monsters and undead makes more sense when you take that into account. The Wyld and the Underworld were considered the weaker of the supernatural locales and they wanted to build on those.

      Last edited by Lioness; 11-27-2018, 04:55 AM.


      The Freedom Stone is back, help it to live again.

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      • #4
        I totally agree with both statements above, but I feel like the balance has shifted a bit too far. Making undead more appealing in Ex3 is a noble goal and putting stuff that was cut from the core back in is good.
        However, at this point, we have triple the amount of undead than elementals and demons combined. I'm certainly not calling for a ban on undead, but I'd like a few more spirits we can summon to balance the scales.

        Oh, and I didn't manage to put this into my main post because I was in a bit of a rush, but I want to make it clear I'm not against the Hundred Devils Night Parade or hold any ill will towards the people that make it. Having a few new NPC's to play with every month is great and keeps the game fresh. My hope for this is to create a positive discussion regarding what more they could do, rather than criticizing what they've done so far.

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        • #5
          anyone think the Rouge Homonculus is gonna be a golem-esque creature or is that just me


          I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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          • #6
            Why is summonability so important that it merits "balancing the scales?"

            (Also, if your players are "bemoaning the lack of summonable demons and elementals for their sorcerer characters," I advise you get them a copy of Games of Divinity. Yes, you'll have to tweak stuff so the spirits fit in Ex3, but a recipe that has to be adjusted is better than going hungry.)
            Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 11-27-2018, 05:33 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
              anyone think the Rouge Homonculus is gonna be a golem-esque creature or is that just me
              Possible, I mean homunculi are basically artificial humans in most fiction.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                Why is summonability so important that it merits "balancing the scales?"

                (Also, if your players are "bemoaning the lack of summonable demons and elementals for their sorcerer characters," I advise you get them a copy of Games of Divinity. Yes, you'll have to tweak stuff so the spirits fit in Ex3, but a recipe that has to be adjusted is better than going hungry.)
                I think we literally have one demon (the Glass Singing one) which is a tad frustrating if Demons are your jam. Like, I love the dead and dead adjacent, because one of my recurring villains is a necromancer, but demons are my favorite thing in exalted bar none. More directly, yeah, you can find homebrews that do the conversions if you dig around here enough--but so far, Hundred Nights has given new undead rather frequently.
                Is the Black Hollow confirmed as Undead?
                Last edited by Epee102; 11-27-2018, 06:45 AM. Reason: contradiction due to coffee related exhaustion


                I did a lot of homebrew over here. PEACH.

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                • #9
                  We do know at least one more demon is coming, so maybe the issue is just with the order they're releasing these in. Might have been better to front load the summonables.

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                  • #10
                    Just a note; a lot of the animals aren't animals. They're magical beasts.

                    That's quite significant; a Lunar can turn into a Kraken or a Great Roc, but not a Plentimon's Ladybug.


                    Anyway, it's nice to have a list of everything, thanks.

                    (Also; Black Hollow sounds pretty undead. But I won't be shocked if Black Hollow turns out to be a mysterious 3rd circle soul of the Ebon Dragon, written by Eric Minton. I'd assume it'd be Yetharig, the Black Hollow, because that's generally how demon names work, but it's possible.)
                    Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 11-27-2018, 11:06 AM.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                      We do know at least one more demon is coming, so maybe the issue is just with the order they're releasing these in. Might have been better to front load the summonables.
                      I suspect they frontloaded the ones that were already written (which did include the Cloud Person and Fulope, who were released much earlier than, say, the Steel Eater), while they got on with writing new ones.


                      "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                      • #12
                        I kinda concur about the balance skewing too far in favour of dead things. It's all very well saying 'just convert from past editions' but most of us lack the confidence to do that. If we did we could just as easily make new critters from white cloth ourselves. My Elementalist Twilight for one would love to have new friends to summon.

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                        • #13
                          Wait, are these undead things part of Hundred Devils, or Adversaries?

                          And has Hundred Devils included things that weren't some kind of animal? I'm pretty sure I read that Black Hollow was part of Hundred Devils in that Monday notice, which would make it seem vanishingly unlikely to me that it was a Third Circle Demon.


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                          • #14
                            On summonables generally:

                            Second Circle Demons are totally fine. People rarely summon them, and if they do, well there's 4 available, who are all very different.

                            First Circle Demons are a bit restricted, as are Elementals. Both aren't terrible (for Demons, you've got combat, social, flying transport and weird possession thing; for elementals you've got combat, social, underwater transport, savant/spy and non-copyright-infringing-rust-monster), but I do find them a little restricted.

                            This probably isn't because the spell is unbalanced; Summon Blood Ape/Neomah/Agata/Fulope is in no way a weak spell! I think it's just that we're using to being spoilt for choice when it comes to demon and elemental summoning.

                            Now, there are of course tons of demons and elementals from previous editions who have fluff, but then that's kind of the same with ghosts (since ghosts can be all sorts of different characters, plus spectres/mortwrights/nemissaries/nephwracks, moliated horrors, etc). And ghosts are a bit mechanically simpler, honestly. Take a human, make them immaterial, use a few charms from the ghosts in the book, done.

                            Something like a Peronelle or Sesseljae is I think, actually quite difficult to balance. How good should the peronelle's armour be? How good should a Sesseljae's healing be? I'm not really sure.
                            Combat demons or elementals are much easier to convert though, I think. I converted the Jokun, as PCs were summoning them as bodyguards. Though it turns out their Join Battle is absolutely terrible!

                            So I wouldn't mind some more demons or elementals. (I'd say it'd be useful to get more animals for Lunars, but honestly the Lunars book's going to have a bunch, so it's not important.)

                            But actually, the only one I think the game is fundamentally missing is 3rd circle demons. There's none at all. Even one would give a general idea of their power and capabilities, but I have no idea how difficult they're supposed to be summon. 7? 10? 15?

                            However, I know Eric wrote one, so I'm sure it'll appear at some point.


                            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                              Wait, are these undead things part of Hundred Devils, or Adversaries?

                              And has Hundred Devils included things that weren't some kind of animal? I'm pretty sure I read that Black Hollow was part of Hundred Devils in that Monday notice, which would make it seem vanishingly unlikely to me that it was a Third Circle Demon.
                              They're all in Hundred Devils. Ghosts, demons, elementals, monsters, animals, behemoths, and three-headed giants that guard Creation's edge have all been in Hundred Devils.

                              Adversaries is only human NPCs (including a god-blood and some Exalts) and one Fair-Folk noble. (Adversaries is also way smaller than Hundred Devils. Which doesn't bother me, I find the stuff in Hundred Devils more useful, though obviously I was delighted to read Dragonblood and Lunar previews in Adversaries.)

                              I suppose I could imagine a powerful anthropomorphic devil in Adversaries, but I'd suspect it be in the Hundred Devils Night Parade.
                              Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 11-27-2018, 11:25 AM.


                              "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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