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Mechanics Changes in What Fire Has Wrought

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
    I'm sure some clever folks will be able to autocompile lists of them, and I'd be glad to discuss them here.
    Well with exams over I can probably knock this out tonight.

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    • #17
      Maybe you can tell me what the reasoning behind Crimson Fang Bite being so overcosted? A potential +5 raw damage is IMO not worth the WP cost. The only thing you're doing is making Fire Dragonblooded feel bad because they can't get a wood aura to use the superior Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite. The only reason I see a WP cost needed is for the decisive version of it.

      If you need an example, look down below.



      A fiery Fire caste that uses short daiklaves, 5 STR, 16 to attack, and ESS 3. We'll compare him against two enemies. Let's say... Oh... A medium infantry straight from the book. The values for the DB are a bit high, but it let's see how things are handled when pushed. We'll assume the Dragonblooded strikes with 8 successes for all the tests.

      11 dice of damage with no other charms, meaning there's a roughly 50% chance of getting 6 successes. With Crimson Flare Bite giving our Dragonblooded 16 dice of damage which gives a roughly 55% chance of getting 8 successes.

      Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite's overwhelming bonus doesn't kick in here, but if in wood aura it allows us to add a potential +5 damage for 4m 1i, so about 5m. Typically this makes it the better option so long as your Strength score isn't horrible (That is roughly two or more).


      But let's make things a little bit more spicy. Let's go on a safari for a River Dragon. It's head will look nice in the fireplace above our Dragonblooded's library. We'll use the same math as above.

      Without magic our Dragonblooded has on average 3 dice to roll against the River Dragon for damage. Roughly 45% chance of getting two damage. At this point overwhelming would kick in for roughly 60% chance of getting those two successes.

      Crimson Fang Bite adds +5 damage to that, roughly a 60% of four damage and 40% chance for five damage. At this point Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite plows on through in either of its forms as in these tests it can potentially grab 9 dice.

      Crimson Fang Bite is better at beating down things with low soak while Wolf Bite is better overall if the costs are compared. I like the idea of adding overwhelming damage, feels very DB, I just don't like how one charm is considered to be the vastly better option in terms of withering attacks.



      Read my shit at my homebrew topic, 2.5e and 3e material!
      Play Alchemical's in 3e now, you're welcome.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

        Well with exams over I can probably knock this out tonight.
        Done the first draft anyway. Not in a clever way, just with my eyeballs and a lot of free time.

        http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...-of-db-changes

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sandact6 View Post
          Maybe you can tell me what the reasoning behind Crimson Fang Bite being so overcosted? A potential +5 raw damage is IMO not worth the WP cost. The only thing you're doing is making Fire Dragonblooded feel bad because they can't get a wood aura to use the superior Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite. The only reason I see a WP cost needed is for the decisive version of it.
          I can't speak for developers, obviously, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. Firstly, they're kind of different charms for different kinds of characters. Wood aspects have like a tough, durable, flexible feel to their charms, so if you're leaning into that you're probably going to grab high stamina, and since having low dexterity is ass for any combat build, your strength is probably hurting. Conversely fire aspects are big on the explosive fickle power of fire, so they tend to just scream ahead with a feeling closer to max dex, max str, screw stamina he'll die before I do anyway. The third option is just to go full sword princess and have 5 in everything.

          So it's pretty clear that for those two character styles the charms help each one for each. The low strength character gets a boost to her overwhelming, since she might be relying on that anyway, where as the high strength character gets a bunch more damage to shoot far past her overwhelming, and gets an effect that's basically double 10s on decisive damage, since you're really unlikely to have more than 5 for most rolls.


          But that's not the only factor either, since the wood one can also boost raw damage...but only with aura. So you're locked out of doing any fancy things like Hopping Firecracker Evasion or the like for defense, but I think more importantly you're going to have a really hard time getting into that aura on your first turn. So you've got a really solid withering damage adder, but you can't lead with it unless you suspect you'll be brought down to your overwhelming anyway. Being supplemental that's something you need to take a gamble on if you're not sure.

          Also the initiative cost isn't just a different kind of resource to spend, it's also a restriction. It makes it perilous, so unlike CFB you can't use it to claw your way out of initiative crash. Which hey, fits with the wood aspect theme! If you've got that tough, high soak damage absorbing style of character, you're just going to try really hard not to get crashed in the first place. The flickering flame of the fire aspect though might find a lot more of his time spent in the dirt of initiative crash that he needs to claw out of. So where DCWB becomes totally unusable, CFB can help you crash the guy that crashed you and get that sweet initiative reversal.


          So I think that they both have their place anyway, I can't really say that one is strictly better for withering damage or not, just because the other one has a bunch of activation restrictions on it's withering damage adder, and even then they're only equal if you have max physical stats. If you've got 5/5/1 then DCWB isn't a consideration, don't even take it, if you've got 1/5/5, same for CFB. I can't even say it's better to take 1/5/5 and use DCWB, because where against low soak targets you have to wait a turn to even activate your charm and hope you don't get crashed before you do, the 5/5/1 guy just put his for in the ground. Likewise against a super high soak target the 5/5/1 flame princess is burning willpower for no extra damage.



          Does all that mean that CFB is totally worth the willpower? I'd say not all the time, certainly, but some of the time yes. Enough of the time to warrant it having that cost...not sure, but that might offer some insight as to why anyway.
          Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 12-20-2018, 02:51 AM.

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          • #20
            Can someone tell me how Stone Fist Strike enables a smashing attack? It is simply that using the Charm to supplement a Brawl attack allows you to make it a smashing attack?


            Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

            My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
              Can someone tell me how Stone Fist Strike enables a smashing attack? It is simply that using the Charm to supplement a Brawl attack allows you to make it a smashing attack?
              I believe that is exactly the case. You normally can’t make a smashing attack with your bare hands because they don’t have the right tag, but using SFS gives it that tag, and thus allows you to smash.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                I believe that is exactly the case. You normally can’t make a smashing attack with your bare hands because they don’t have the right tag, but using SFS gives it that tag, and thus allows you to smash.
                And thus allows you to use Rolling Boulder Blow even without a gauntlet or smashfist, with various other bonuses to make it worth the 3 motes.

                But is it made clearer if you need SFS or a smashfist to use Firmanent-Shattering Impact, or whether that Charm enables the smashing attack itself?


                Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
                  And thus allows you to use Rolling Boulder Blow even without a gauntlet or smashfist, with various other bonuses to make it worth the 3 motes.

                  But is it made clearer if you need SFS or a smashfist to use Firmanent-Shattering Impact, or whether that Charm enables the smashing attack itself?
                  Oh oh I see. Other than the name change it doesn’t look like the wording changed so I sadly can’t comment there.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                    Oh oh I see. Other than the name change it doesn’t look like the wording changed so I sadly can’t comment there.
                    So we still don't know if you need to use SFS to use FSI.

                    I asked Vance what happens if you use RBB with FSI, he said that the range bands of knockback stack.

                    There should be no stacking with SFS and RBB, since using a smashing attack is what enables RBB in the first place. Either RBB is allowing you to add knock down to knock back, or add knock back to knock down.


                    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                    My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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