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DrLoveMonkey's Review of DB Changes

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  • DrLoveMonkey's Review of DB Changes

    Okay, so first off, here's the list that I compiled. I didn't do this with any software so expect there to be some missing charms, but I think I got more than I missed. Anyone who notices any more please post and I'll update the list.



    Archery

    Credit to Parabola for finding these ones
    • Unobstructed Hunter's Aim, the excellency, has improved its secondary effect from 'as long as you attack a living or undead target, ignore one point of penalty from visual obstruction' to the same, but every added die ignores one point of such penalties.
    • Sky-Calming Draw went from 4m to 3m, and changed "In Air Aura, the Dragon-Blood may use this Charm without needing to aim beforehand" to "If her weapon already has long range, she instead adds an automatic success on the attack roll".
    • Death From Nowhere went from 3m to 4m, but you don't need to spend a round aiming before using it, and if you did aim beforehand, you ignore (higher of Essence or Perception) soak, instead of (lower of Essence or Perception).
    • Life-Swelling Sap Strike's 1wp cost is now an optional surcharge when used against undead, to ensure they are incapacitated if crashed. The surcharge is waived if used against trivial foes (!).
    • Arbor Sentinel Technique no longer requires 1wp to use.
    • Spring Follows Winter has been heavily changed. The cost has been reduced from 5m, 2i, to 2m (+1i per die). Instead of being 'make a decisive attack, roll twice and use the better result', you can reroll non-1 failures for one Initiative each (the initiative isnt paid until after the roll).
    • Horizon-Spanning Arc is now once-per-scene, reset by crashing an enemy whose initiative was higher than yours.
    • Seven-Year Swarm Volley and Swallows Defend the Nest have changed names for some reason.
    Athletics
    • Strength of Stone Technique's cost changed from 1m, 1wp to 5m
    • Graceful Dryad Dance now allows you to move down as well as up
    Awareness
    • Sense-Riding Technique now ends if the target gets more than (Essence * 5) miles away.
    Brawl
    • Oaken Thew Exertion had it's cost lowered from 5 to 4 motes
    • Blade Deflecting Palm had it's price lowered from 4m 1i to being able to pay for the reroll 1m per die, plus the initiative. It also lost the water aura effect of onslaught reducing the charms cost by mote. It is now essence 2 and can be used after the attack.
    • Stone Fist Strike added an extra effect where it now grants your unarmed attacks the smashing keyword, and that effect can be applied to decisive attacks.
    • Firmament-Shattering Impact changed it's name to Crater Making Impact
    Craft
    • Blazing Dragon Smith Arete now rolls an additional non-charm die for every 10
    • Imago-Hatching Realization can only be used once per project, but the "unexpected but useful feature" only requires the rerolled dice to yield a success instead of having to turn the roll itself from a failure into a success.
    Dodge
    • Ember Amid-Smoke Misdirection went from 3m2i to 3m in cost
    • Unassailable Body of Fire had it's counterattack damage increased from (Evasion/2) to (Essence + Evasion)/2.
    • Elusive Dragon-God Dispersion now makes Unassailable Body of Fire and Hopping Firecracker Evasion into whatever element your aura curently is.
    • Unmoving Center of Enlightenment can now be resisted for 5i 1wp
    Medicine
    • Constitution-Tempering Discipline became Indomitable Vitality Discipline.
    Melee
    • Buring Fury Wreath has an added bonus, in fire aura the effect is doubled.
    • Flame-Borne Interception's cost inceased by 1 mote, but now it's a turn long +1 parry, that in addition increases your parry for each successfully blocked attack
    • Harnessed Firestorm Assault now uses higher of Dex or Str, and excellencies only need be paid for once for all attacks
    • Dragon Soul Burst changed cost from 5m 3i to 8m
    • Mela's Flashing Tongue now has a maximum number of attacks equal to (Dex + Str)
    Sail
    • Old Salt Spirit's cost was reduced from 5m 1wp, to 5m.
    Thrown
    • Hundred Thorns Blossom had it's cost reduced from 10m,3i,1wp to 5m,3i,1wp
    Martial Arts
    • Bottomless Depths Defense is now only usable on decisive attacks, and must be declared before the attack is rolled, which I believe is normal for defensive charms anyway.

    Formatting Errors

    Dodge: Ember Amid Smoke Misdirection
    Ride: Small formatting error in



    In addition to that we have 5 free excellencies right off chargen, a much lower xp requirement for essence 3, and none of the trees have excellency requirements anymore. The 5 free excellencies is good, I do recall some early character designs that I came up with felt a bit slow to start, and this will help with that. If you consider that DBs get a 2 for 1 effect with all their excellencies, this almost gives them 20 charms off chargen, which is impressive.

    The lack of pre-requisites is also a good thing. Sometimes you just want Spirit Detecting Mirror technique for your ghostbuster, but you don't necessarily need her to be the most adept at all things occult. Or maybe you just want Wind-Carried Words technique to be able to communicate with your squad, whatever the case is, it's helpful. Also in my experience games tend to last almost as long as it took to get to essence 3, so I was thinking about signature charms more as the final powers you'd get in a campaign before the end, but now they can feel more natural to your character progression, which is good.

    Otherwise the changes just seem good. There's a few charms that I think missed a bit of a buff that maybe should have gotten it, but otherwise things like Flame Borne Interception, and Oaken Thew Exertion got what they needed. The former is now at least breaks even if you get attacked twice and fail to parry the first attack, and goes up from there. Harnessed Firestorm Assault is now useful even if you have low dex, just as long as you don't have low strength too, and at that point you're probably not really that much of a swordsperson. Stone Fist Strike giving a smash attack makes it a much cooler charm as well as enables Rolling Boulder Blow, which was a bit of an oversight before I think that you needed a weapon to do it.

    Then there's just a few changes to things like Mela's Flashing Tongue and Sense Riding having some kind of cap, which before probably hardly came up but really they should have one. Overall though from my first glances, I think it looks good!
    Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; Yesterday, 04:50 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
    Okay, so first off, here's the list that I compiled. I didn't do this with any software so expect there to be some missing charms, but I think I got more than I missed. Anyone who notices any more please post and I'll update the list.

    ...[*]Blade Deflecting Palm had it's price lowered from 4m 1i to being able to pay for the reroll 1m per die, plus the initiative. It also lost the water aura effect of onslaught reducing the charms cost by mote.
    One I noticed and appreciated is that Blade Deflecting Palm is now used after the attack. It's a pretty good Charm now.


    Currently writing for Heirs to the Shogunate.

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    • #3
      It's also essence 2 instead of essence 1.

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      • #4
        About not needing excellencies, their benefits when you have, say, skill 1 and no specialties, are extremely slight for a full-charm buy. It's much better than you can opt-in when you will get some benefit out of them.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by pcontop View Post
          About not needing excellencies, their benefits when you have, say, skill 1 and no specialties, are extremely slight for a full-charm buy. It's much better than you can opt-in when you will get some benefit out of them.
          Agreed, it’s less so for Solars because they always get their attribute added to the dicecap as well, and their charms also tend to have less unique and self contained effects. Like getting double 9s on a linguistics roll when you’re not good at linguistics is meh, but being able to communicate over miles instantly is always good.

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          • #6
            What do people think of the return to rounding down for static value increases from excellencies? I know it was always intended to work that way, but it is a pretty significant nerf to the Melee, Brawl, Dodge, Integrity and Socialise excellencies.
            Specialties are much more important because of it.

            It is, though, more consistent with the rest of the line. And by rewarding 5s less, might mean less min-maxed characters happy with Dodge 4.

            On the other hand, I've historically found it difficult to get players to remember that static value caps round down, as they assume everything rounds up for Exalts, so having DBs round up would have been easier.
            Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 12-20-2018, 11:14 AM.


            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
              What do people think of the return to rounding down for static value increases from excellencies? I know it was always intended to work that way, but it is a pretty significant nerf to the Melee, Brawl, Dodge, Integrity and Socialise excellencies.
              Specialties are much more important because of it.

              It is, though, more consistent with the rest of the line. And by rewarding 5s less, might mean less min-maxed characters happy with Dodge 4.

              On the other hand, I've historically found it difficult to get players to remember that static value caps round down, as they assume everything rounds up for Exalts, so having DBs round up would have been easier.
              I’m afraid I don’t understand. I’m looking at the charm section right now and it says for static values you can raise them by “no more than half this amount, rounded up.” And then gives an example showing that with a specialty putting your cap to 5, you may raise the static value by 3.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                I’m afraid I don’t understand. I’m looking at the charm section right now and it says for static values you can raise them by “no more than half this amount, rounded up.” And then gives an example showing that with a specialty putting your cap to 5, you may raise the static value by 3.

                http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...86#post1275486


                Raksha are my fae-vorite.

                Reincarnation of magnificentmomo.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                  I’m afraid I don’t understand. I’m looking at the charm section right now and it says for static values you can raise them by “no more than half this amount, rounded up.” And then gives an example showing that with a specialty putting your cap to 5, you may raise the static value by 3.
                  Vance just corrected that in the Ask the Devs thread, asking it to be put in the DB errata thread.


                  Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    What do people think of the return to rounding down for static value increases from excellencies? I know it was always intended to work that way, but it is a pretty significant nerf to the Melee, Brawl, Dodge, Integrity and Socialise excellencies.
                    It's unfortunate and going to lead to specialties like "when joining battle" because of how much you potentially lose by not having them.


                    The Freedom Stone is back, help it to live again.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marin View Post

                      Vance just corrected that in the Ask the Devs thread, asking it to be put in the DB errata thread.
                      Oh Jesus whiplash.

                      “Wait DBs round down again? Hang on DBs used to round up? Wait do Solars round up!?”

                      I don’t personally have much of an opinion on it. It doesn’t affect the min-maxers much since they’d have 6 dice there either way. I think I probably prefer it rounding down? I find usually players have max in a lot of abilities anyway, not just for minmaxing but because of charm requirements, and this makes having an applicable specialty a bit more meaningful.

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                      • #12
                        I'm disappointed that Shimmering Heat-Mirage Tactic is still a trap pick, but otherwise like the changes.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                          What do people think of the return to rounding down for static value increases from excellencies? I know it was always intended to work that way, but it is a pretty significant nerf to the Melee, Brawl, Dodge, Integrity and Socialise excellencies.
                          Specialties are much more important because of it.
                          I never realized they were written that way in the first place, so it's not much of a change for me.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by squidheadjax View Post
                            I'm disappointed that Shimmering Heat-Mirage Tactic is still a trap pick, but otherwise like the changes.
                            I was on the lookout for that one as well, and I’m still not sure about it. Like if you’re in Fire Aura tue effect only drops if they roll no ones and roll at least one ten, which is not wretched odds. It also doesn’t risk being dropped by trivial opponents, who looking at the sidebar for I’m not 100% sure I’ve even used correctly in the past.

                            Then again it’s a simple charm, so your giving up your turn to activate it, that’s a pretty big cost. It’s probably meant to be used after you get caught sneaking and are running away, dodging the arrows of the house guards or something.

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                            • #15
                              If it were reflexive the risk and initiative cost would be worth it. As a simple it's just overpriced and weaker Full Defense that *might* last an extra round or two but also costs against your charm cap.

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