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  • #16
    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    Y'know it never occurred to me til now that Compass: Blessed Isle's descriptions of the legions basically just shits on wood aspects. No cavalry, archers are looked down on... I mean what's next? They consider field medics a dishonourable form of cheating?
    The Exalted are always afforded exceptions.

    Mind, this was back in a time when the Dragon Blooded in general were described as eschewing horses due to the dangers of Anima flux.

    The Realm's thing with cavalry as a whole came from the matter of how transporting large numbers of horses by ship is kind of difficult (or has at least often been assumed to be).


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    • #17
      Yeah, the horse thing makes sense, kinda.

      But then saying that another ability from that aspect is also not done just feels like salting the wound.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Elfive View Post
        But then saying that another ability from that aspect is also not done just feels like salting the wound.
        It was still done, it just wasn't regarded with respect for the mortal soldiers.

        That's been a perspective on archery in several societies in real life. Or several other things; something being necessary, or even useful, doesn't always mean the people doing it get respect. Look at undertakers; the way they've often been treated in real life, Sijan really feels like an assuring dream they would make for themselves.

        Scott Taylor once noted how the Realm's tactical doctrine said something about who they were fighting and why. I mean, if the Realm legions are heavily modelled off of the Roman ones, they're aping the image of an army that isn't exactly known for its employment of archers.

        In that system, I would still imagine that Exalted with an archery focus would still command the mortals (and possibly often be really snooty about it, comparing their drilled massed volleys to her elegant and precise form), when they're not functioning as a mobile ranger and harasser.

        Still, that was in the past. I think the standards and objectives of Realm warfare might have shifted a bit for this Edition.


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        • #19
          Also with the more distinct and emphasized uniqueness of the different houses, I’d say there’s certainly room within the Realm for all manner of bias and lack thereof. V’Neef for example has a power bow that lets her summon a massive rideable wolf, I believe. It’s hard to imagine her scions eschewing and disrespecting cavalry, archers, and cavalry archers. Then a general from house Cathak comes along and turns her nose up at the weak willed milksops from V’Neef who want to prance around on horses firing arrows from a cowardly distance. Anyone who doesn’t want to act like a pillock should get their spear or sword and get stuck in.

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          • #20
            I'm curious as to whether the 2-3 thousand skirmishers per legion are archers, or if they're a mix of archers, javelin throwers, slingers, etc.

            Traditionally, one reason archers have been looked down on has been classist; being an archer was a lot less expensive than being an infantryman. You don't need to buy expensive armour. So infantrymen tended to come from higher-class families.
            In a professional army like the Realm, that's not quite the same. But there's still a logic in putting your best soldiers in the heavy infantry; they're going to need to be the strongest (to march in heavy armour) and bravest (to come face-to-face with the enemy; not to mention that if your heavy infantry break its a disaster, more-so than if your archers break). So I could well see the best soldiers put in the heavy infantry and the worst in the archers, leading to archers being considered less important.

            "Lower than baggage slaves" seems silly though.

            And then, as Isator mentioned, cavalry are hard to bring across the sea, so it makes sense that they mostly rely on auxiliary cavalry.


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            • #21
              I could definitely see variations based on House philosophies though, as DrLoveMonkey said.
              Also, it's logical for there to be variations based on the theatre of operation. Heavy infantry are going to be less useful in the desert, and cavalry and archers less useful in An-Teng's dense jungle.


              "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                V’Neef for example has a power bow that lets her summon a massive rideable wolf, I believe. It’s hard to imagine her scions eschewing and disrespecting cavalry, archers, and cavalry archers.
                Can the conscripts use their bows to summon and tame large animals and monsters?

                Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                I'm curious as to whether the 2-3 thousand skirmishers per legion are archers, or if they're a mix of archers, javelin throwers, slingers, etc.
                Probably a mix.

                Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
                In a professional army like the Realm, that's not quite the same.
                Although one of the books opted to give the legions an early history of the soldiers needing to bring their own equipment, as the infrastructure wasn't fully up yet.

                Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
                But there's still a logic in putting your best soldiers in the heavy infantry; they're going to need to be the strongest (to march in heavy armour) and bravest (to come face-to-face with the enemy; not to mention that if your heavy infantry break its a disaster, more-so than if your archers break).
                I mean, as a prejudice that some officers might have, sure. Well made armour rests comfortably on just about anybody with basic fitness, and instilling discipline is the whole point of their training.

                Plus, archery with heavy bows requires significant strength in its own right.

                I could imagine a system in which archers and slingers are largely drawn from more agrarian prefectures, even the ones that are virtually frontier land, where people have the time and incentive to have been drilling in bow and sling since youth. I don't think you're getting much archery training living in the city.

                The Blessed Isle has desert now, the people from those regions are probably useful for specialized roles while likely being looked down on by recruits from more verdant areas.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                  I could definitely see variations based on House philosophies though, as DrLoveMonkey said.
                  Also, it's logical for there to be variations based on the theatre of operation. Heavy infantry are going to be less useful in the desert, and cavalry and archers less useful in An-Teng's dense jungle.
                  Also don’t forget sepoy troops either. You don’t need to get horses across the sea if your satrapy already has a thousand light cavalry already. Depending on the exact relation they might even be pretty well respected in their local area, especially if those sepoys are pulled from some kind of upper or warrior caste within their culture, and fight well enough to spark some pride in their imperial overlords. Like, yeah, most threshold denizens are weak and undisciplined, but these are MY dirty barbarians, and I have forged them into a razor sharp spearhead for the Empress, because I’m awesome.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                    Can the conscripts use their bows to summon and tame large animals and monsters?
                    Well...no, but the head of their house is both a famous archer and a famous rider, I think there’s some room in the empire to have that kind of diversity of opinion.

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                    • #25
                      It is important to note that "heavy infantry" and "light infantry" doesnt necessarily refer to the weight/type of equipment used bt a soldier/unit, but to the soldier/units role on the battlefield.

                      A "heavy infantry" soldier/unit is one that is meant to actually engage in hand-to-hand combat, mounting attacks and anchoring battle-lines.

                      A "light infantry" soldier/unit is one that is meant to screen, scout and skirmish. While they usually had lighter equipment to suit those ends, historically there were ostensibly "light infantry" that had heavy equipment and could fight perfectly well up close.

                      And it is also important to note that soldiers/units often didnt fit neatly into slots either. The Roman Legionaries were heavy infantry (*very* heavy infantry, mind you, heavier than most, since almost-every Legionary had heavy armor), but there are a few sources that state every Legionary was equipped with a sling just in case. And of course they had javelins and darts and bows.

                      It is odd to see there are so few non-Legionary soldiers in a Realm Legion. I know you arent going for a 1-1 Realm/Rome comparison, but the Auxilia made up around 3/5ths of Romes forces, and had as many infantry as the Legions while providing almost all of Romes cavalry and archers

                      Having so few auxiliary troops attached to a Legion seems to leave the Legion dangerously unsupported

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Boston123 View Post
                        It is odd to see there are so few non-Legionary soldiers in a Realm Legion. I know you arent going for a 1-1 Realm/Rome comparison, but the Auxilia made up around 3/5ths of Romes forces, and had as many infantry as the Legions while providing almost all of Romes cavalry and archers

                        Having so few auxiliary troops attached to a Legion seems to leave the Legion dangerously unsupported
                        Auxiliary troop numbers are over and above skirmisher numbers. Auxiliaries aren't part of a legion; skirmishers are part of the legion.


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                        • #27
                          Damn phone eating my post with a misclick.

                          Okay how many folks use atlatls? Mostly satrapies out in the boonies or mostly Barbarians?

                          Do you honk we have a specials Legion composed mostly out of special troops like comandos, dinoriders, hangliders, beastmen, firewanders, and warstrider support? Probably no? I know smaller groups in Legions fill that roll without have a special legion raised up for it.


                          What about Beastmen? They are traditionally on the other side of the battlefield and probably would get a lot of flack from the realm folks. But Prasad has them, do you think we get things like Beastmen Janissaries?

                          Do you think Saloy Hin had his hands full just maintaining his 7kish Numbers or do you think since he doesn’t have to answer to protocol and hires mercenaries and locals he was able to swell his numbers, maybe to 10kish+


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