Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Third Edition in Retrospect, Thus Far

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Pros:
    The Social system has got to be the best in any RPG, bar none.
    Creation is one of the few settings that I actually want to run. I usually homebrew.
    The combat is very very interesting.
    Charms make me excited to build characters, and I think that's pretty high praise.
    Mechanically I think most of the game is extremely well executed.
    I think it's worth reiterating that I love the new take on the setting. The reduction is "science fiction pretending to be fantasy" was a really wise move, I think. The Realm is awesome now. I'm really excited to see a version of Lunars that's not thoroughly bad.

    Cons:
    While I don't have the visceral hatred of craft that some do and have seen it work out great in play, it takes a lot of work to get it working properly.
    It's an intimidating system. While I really like that, I have a group that's too scared to give it a try.


    Originally posted by Croakamancer View Post
    #2: Every single setting change, bar 'remove obviously gross thing', was for the worse. Yes, all of them. I only put this on the list because, while it's subjective, the fact that the setting is so different from the way I like it makes it really annoying to ST: it's hard to lay down changed fluff to players who're jumping on board now and don't have the older books.
    This is somewhat amazing to me. Not at all a personal attack, but I can't imagine reading through WFHW and thinking, "Man, I wish Dragonblooded sucked on a thematic and ontological level again!" Every Great House description made me want to run a different campaign. Ex3 has been pretty polarizing in a lot of ways, I guess. (Again, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I think it's worth discussing differences of opinion.)

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Abakus View Post
      This is somewhat amazing to me. Not at all a personal attack, but I can't imagine reading through WFHW and thinking, "Man, I wish Dragonblooded sucked on a thematic and ontological level again!" Every Great House description made me want to run a different campaign. Ex3 has been pretty polarizing in a lot of ways, I guess. (Again, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I think it's worth discussing differences of opinion.)
      For 'not trying to be antagonistic' and 'not a personal attack' describing my prefered take as 'sucking on a thematic and ontological level' is... a unique approach. :P

      People want different things out of this setting. For me, the science fiction aspects were a great and memorable part of Exalted, and it's the lesser for trying to obfuscate them. I also really enjoyed 2E Lunars and their Silver Pact, and while new rules will be great, I await the fluff take with dread. (Yeah, I don't have to use it but as a ST I have to beat it out of the heads of new players why I want a different take at my table). I like the concept of the Thousand Dooms and continue to view Solars vs the Realm as the least interesting story you can tell in the setting.

      Really, I think this is the retrospect on 3E. It's still divisive. The arguments died down somewhat with the new dev team but our perspectives on the edition are still really diverse. WFHW hasn't changed that. It'll be interesting to see if Lunars does.

      Comment


      • #48
        *Nothing to see here really.
        Last edited by Gonzo; 02-06-2019, 02:18 PM.


        Join the Strife

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Gonzo View Post

          I may be walking on thin ice here but... those things don't need a new edition to go away, you simply change them in your game and voila. I understand, and don't mean to say you're wrong. In fact, you know better than anyone what you prefer and need.

          I remember a time in which loooong arguments were made on this forum about the oversexualization in certain illustrations and some setting content.

          Ex3 is almost completly deprived of those things... and I might be the only one in this corner, but I think some part of the games identity has died in the process... it's like Exalted has been tamed, and it used to be wild and brave. Meh...

          Disclaimer: I do not support evil and/or evil actions in any way or form, please know to differentiate my humble point of view from any kind of apology for evil behaviors.
          Meh. That material is stuff that did not enhance the setting. I do not miss it. I almost agree with you, the sense of Exalted as bold or intriguing has faded, but I don't think it's down to us having a basic sense of taste here. There's no real 'baby with the bathwater' omission from the mature content cuts, IMO at least

          Comment


          • #50
            I like warstriders very much.
            Last edited by Gonzo; 02-06-2019, 02:27 PM.


            Join the Strife

            Comment


            • #51
              Gonzo: Please don't say you don't support evil in the same breath as you lionize material that makes light of rape.

              Comment


              • #52
                Let's all ignore my last posts. There's no need to turn this into anything else. I'll delete them, but if a mod can come and destroy them I'd be grateful.


                Join the Strife

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post

                  I guess it's supposed to be Luke Skywalker vs the Empire; they're outnumbered, but obviously Luke can take on 10 stormtroopers and win.

                  In theory, the Realm is still a huge threat because they have 70 Dragonblood and 4000 soldiers per Solar, but obviously it's not practical for me to run a fight between 6 Solars and 420 Dragonblood. So it ends up being 6 Solars vs 6 Dragonblood, and unsurprisingly, the Solars wipe the floor with them.
                  Yeah but it took a while for luke to do that. I feel that building up to power is mpre enjoyable than just having a murder combo at start. At beast imo supernal should have just counted you one or two essense higher rather than just 5 at start. Though i understand that it depends on the game and that not every game will last long enough to enjoy those high level techniques. I feel like it takes away more than it adds.


                  Also, on the subject on new versus old i'm a fan of mixing and matching but i definitely prefer the 1e dragon blooded setting than the 3rd edition.
                  Last edited by Epimetheus; 02-06-2019, 02:49 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    (I kind of want to run a Size 2 unit of 30 Might 2 elite-drill Dragonblooded led by an Essence 5 general, and 2-3 other Essence 4 DBs, but everyone tells me you can't put Dragonblood in battle groups. But how else do you run 30 Dragonblood attacking the PCs?
                    This comes back, to some extent, to the lack of foes for high-level Solars.)
                    *checks book*

                    Might 3 surely? I would also be interested to see how that would hash out. True you'd have the PCs dropping exalts like flies whenever they attacked, but if we assume artifact armour and weapons, and with a total of +5 to attack and damage, a flat +4 to their defence and a big AoE attack that could be pretty deadly. If we make the assumption of 3 in every stat that's still like a base parry of 9, attack with base 10, damage of 18, and soak of 13.

                    Then if the General is essence 4-5 you use Blessed Dragon Champion combined with Wildfire Legion, combo' with Blazing Courageous Swordsman Inspiration and max out Tactics Mean Everything. Then you stunt and spend a willpower on the command roll, then stunt and spend a willpower on the attack...actually that might be going too far. If the attack was only targeting the dawn of the party then it'd probably be okay, but that's likely to crash everyone who's not really powerful on defence. And if you're crashed then the battlegroup does almost that same attack again next turn but kills you, hope you disengaged. Even worse if somebody does get incapacitated it resets Wildfire Legion.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Croakamancer View Post
                      I don't have to use it but as a ST I have to beat it out of the heads of new players why I want a different take at my table
                      That sounds kind of Draconian as a Storyteller.

                      Personal tastes aside, that just doesn't sound like good conduct as a Storyteller. Seems like the kind of thing one ought to move past for the sake of one's players.


                      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                        That sounds kind of Draconian as a Storyteller.

                        Personal tastes aside, that just doesn't sound like good conduct as a Storyteller. Seems like the kind of thing one ought to move past for the sake of one's players.
                        That's not fair to the st who wants to run something but can't because of "canon". It's there for setting cohesion but you shouldn't be beholden to it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                          *checks book*

                          Might 3 surely?
                          Sorry, yes.

                          but if we assume artifact armour and weapons, and with a total of +5 to attack and damage, a flat +4 to their defence and a big AoE attack that could be pretty deadly.
                          I wouldn't actually, I'd probably put all the non-BG Dragonblood in artefact armour and weapons, but not the Battle Group. Because when they die, I wouldn't want the PCs to find 30 suits of artefact armour and 30 daiklaives.

                          If we make the assumption of 3 in every stat that's still like a base parry of 9, attack with base 10, damage of 18, and soak of 13.
                          Nah, use Elite Soldier stats. That seems fair for an Essence 1-2, non-min-maxed Dragonblood officer. (Also I'm lazy.)
                          So it looks like this:
                          10
                          16 (Dmg 17, min 2)
                          9
                          9
                          12
                          9
                          4
                          .actually that might be going too far. If the attack was only targeting the dawn of the party then it'd probably be okay, but that's likely to crash everyone who's not really powerful on defence. And if you're crashed then the battlegroup does almost that same attack again next turn but kills you, hope you disengaged. Even worse if somebody does get incapacitated it resets Wildfire Legion.
                          Yeah, that's the point. Being attacked by 30 Dragonblood should be terrifying, even for the PCs in the game I ran (5 Essence 5 Solars, 2 Essence 5 Lunars).
                          It may seem ridiculous, but they're essence 5 Solars, they'll bust out their own ridiculous stuff. Ridiculous defences, counterattacks, etc.
                          (Except the social character, but she'd be a range band or two back because she's not an idiot.)

                          The thing is, it can do a lot of damage, but as you say, they'll drop like flies, they've only got 17 health levels between them (though Defence 9 and Soak 12 isn't to be sniffed at). It's a glass cannon, essentially.
                          (Which does mean you can run the combat at good speed, but it makes it swingy.)

                          The most important charm for the DB commander is actually Enfolded in the Dragon's Wings to buff their defence and soak, and keep them alive through a couple of rounds of being attacked by 5 Solars.


                          My characters:
                          Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                          Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

                            Yeah but it took a while for luke to do that. I feel that building up to power is mpre enjoyable than just having a murder combo at start. At beast imo supernal should have just counted you one or two essense higher rather than just 5 at start. Though i understand that it depends on the game and that not every game will last long enough to enjoy those high level techniques. I feel like it takes away more than it adds.
                            I do somewhat agree with you, but I actually feel Supernal is less an issue than all those 5s.

                            When I made a starting character, I found I actually only bought Essence 2 charms, because of prereqs and wanting to buy charms from other Abilities.

                            So... I guess I wouldn't mind if it was just like +2 Essence. I suppose I can see that some idiot might buy 15 Melee charms, make combat unfun, and find there's nowhere for them go Melee-wise.

                            But it's not an issue I've actually seen.


                            My characters:
                            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post

                              I do somewhat agree with you, but I actually feel Supernal is less an issue than all those 5s.

                              When I made a starting character, I found I actually only bought Essence 2 charms, because of prereqs and wanting to buy charms from other Abilities.

                              So... I guess I wouldn't mind if it was just like +2 Essence. I suppose I can see that some idiot might buy 15 Melee charms, make combat unfun, and find there's nowhere for them go Melee-wise.

                              But it's not an issue I've actually seen.
                              Really because that was one I've seen. Some trees aren't good before E3 and the interesting charm tress require sufficient investment.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                                Yeah, that's the point. Being attacked by 30 Dragonblood should be terrifying, even for the PCs in the game I ran (5 Essence 5 Solars, 2 Essence 5 Lunars).
                                It may seem ridiculous, but they're essence 5 Solars, they'll bust out their own ridiculous stuff. Ridiculous defences, counterattacks, etc.
                                (Except the social character, but she'd be a range band or two back because she's not an idiot.)

                                The most important charm for the DB commander is actually Enfolded in the Dragon's Wings to buff their defence and soak, and keep them alive through a couple of rounds of being attacked by 5 Solars.
                                Oh wow, seven essence 5 celestial exalts? I do not envy you. Also I doubt even that crazy group would do much. I was thinking about what if you unleashed it on a group of 4-5 essence 2 or 3 Solars. In your case I doubt it would do much. One of the easy ways to almost totally nullify the battlegroup is o just beat the initiative roll of the dragonblooded commander, and launch a series of decisive attacks on it like with melee or especially brawl. The soak won't matter, you get a ton of free damage for attacking with a decisive, and Enfolded only braces against one attack. It's something you would have trouble doing at chargen not just because you don't have the motes, but at essence 5 it's easy, you can even use any leftover attacks to beat up the other DBs.


                                Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                                But it's not an issue I've actually seen.
                                Funnily enough, not only have I seen that issue multiple times, I've done it myself by accident.
                                Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 02-06-2019, 03:40 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X