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what did the gods get out of the primordial war?

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  • what did the gods get out of the primordial war?

    The incarnae obviously became their own masters and got the games of divinity.. i suppose that since they sometimes let other gods play the games as well, some gods also gained some benefit

    But for the most part, what did the vast majority gain? the ruleship of the primordials was replaced by that of the incarnae on heaven and the exalted on earth

  • #2
    Assuming the background is similar, the Primordials/those who created the gods geased them to be unable to revolt against them. (I do not think that this is/was limited to the Incarnae.) Thus, the gods were essentially liberated from slavery.

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    • #3
      Leisure time and easier jobs.


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      Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
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      • #4
        The Unconquered Sun takes a tithe of 10% of all prayer to fund the Celestial Bureaucracy. I imagine that under Primordial rule, prayer taxes were likely more confiscatory and arbitrary, lacking the magnanimity and justice of Ignis Divine.

        In short, they got rich.


        The Lunar Castebooks fan project - Complete! (Changing, Full, No, and Casteless)

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        • #5
          Another thing to note is that despite the rulership over the gods still being fundamentally authoritarian, there are definitely differences between the flavors of authority they are under. With the Primordials, you've got a basically whimsical and, in many cases, rather sadistic set of overlords who view you as a thing they created, and who find it relatively easy to replace you, should you draw their ire. With the Incarnae, you've got rulers who are the same basic type of creature you are, who presumably have at least some degree of empathy with your situation. And with the Unconquered Sun at the top, you have a ruler who's metaphysically dedicated to the principles of Temperance, Compassion, Valor, and Conviction, meaning he'll generally be careful to avoid excessive indulgence, have compassion towards you, bravely face enemies that threaten you, and hold true to his promises, all extremely useful things in a ruler.

          There have been plenty of rebellions in real-world history where the basic goal wasn't "overthrow the ruling class and establish a democracy" but rather "replace our current corrupt and cruel leader with one we expect will do better for us". That the gods in Exalted actually more-or-less got that means it probably ranks among the more successful revolts.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by mark View Post
            But for the most part, what did the vast majority gain?
            Being functionaries instead of slaves.

            Originally posted by mark View Post
            ...the ruleship of the primordials was replaced by that of the incarnae on heaven and the exalted on earth
            Yes, but the gods were going from being property to being an employee. That's a big step up.

            Originally posted by Tikor View Post
            The Unconquered Sun takes a tithe of 10% of all prayer to fund the Celestial Bureaucracy. I imagine that under Primordial rule, prayer taxes were likely more confiscatory and arbitrary, lacking the magnanimity and justice of Ignis Divine.
            The enemies of the gods couldn't tax the gods of their ambrosia in the Time Before, because gods didn't get ambrosia, because they didn't live in Yu-Shan.

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            • #7
              Have you freaking seen the description of what it's like to live in Heaven?!


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
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              • #8
                Also, why all these threads from you about the Primordial War, mark? The game takes place more than six thousand years after that.
                Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 02-19-2019, 05:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                  Have you freaking seen the description of what it's like to live in Heaven?!
                  I want to qualify the intended tone of this statement, as it occurs to me it might read as hostile. My meaning was more to imply a sense of awed rapture for the described glory and luxury of life in Yu-Shan.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post

                    The enemies of the gods couldn't tax the gods of their ambrosia in the Time Before, because gods didn't get ambrosia, because they didn't live in Yu-Shan.
                    The tax is also used to give it back as income as the incarnae have no need for ambrosia as they have unlimited access to celestial peaches and wine.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                      Also, why all these threads from you about the Primordial War, mark? The game takes place more than six thousand years after that.
                      The game takes place at whatever time in history the players' want. I like the idea of playing War in Heaven games.

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                      • #12
                        Understanding the Primordial War can have in-play effects in any age. For example, playing Celestials whose Lytek-granted memories stretch back that far can make those times and struggles meaningful, which includes the default setting of Solars.


                        The Lunar Castebooks fan project - Complete! (Changing, Full, No, and Casteless)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tikor View Post
                          The Unconquered Sun takes a tithe of 10% of all prayer to fund the Celestial Bureaucracy. I imagine that under Primordial rule, prayer taxes were likely more confiscatory and arbitrary, lacking the magnanimity and justice of Ignis Divine.

                          In short, they got rich.
                          This is technically inaccurate in the details, but I think ultimately gets to the essential principle of the thing.

                          The Primordials reside in Yu-Shan, luxuriating in its splendour, which would probably still be empowered primarily by the prayer of the life below.

                          The gods reside in Creation, barred from Yu-Shan. They are bound in thankless labour, to preserve the world that offers its spiritual riches up for the Primordials to enjoy.

                          When the gods finally get to Yu-Shan, the Unconquered Sun's tithe is actually fairly magnanimous; it disperses the riches of Heaven among the populace, disproportionate to the manner in which its natural mechanisms would do so. Your average filing clerk god will not enjoy the luxuries that Ahlat does, but by the grace of the Unconquered Sun, their labour is rewarded with regular infusions of ambrosia of their very own. They wouldn't be getting it any other way; who is going to offer their prayers to some nameless, faceless filing clerk god? But the Celestial Order ensured that even they get to enjoy at least a taste of the splendours of Heaven. What will you craft your ambrosia into? Luxuriant silken robes? A little jade and sapphire song bird to wake you each morning with pleasant tones? An ornamental fountain of rainbow fire?

                          It's a lot more than you had living back on the slopes of Mount Meru. Praise be to the Unconquered Sun, that he did not jealously hoard all of the fruits of the victory of his Chosen.


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                          • #14
                            Better working and living conditions.


                            Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

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                            • #15
                              The benefits afforded to Terrestrial gods are somewhat less clear, but if I was going primarily by First Edition, I would see a big part of that as being a lot of their workload being relieved by twin factors of humanity's tenure over the Earth being somewhat less tumultuous than the activities of the likes of Dragon Kings and whatever weirder species the Primordials patronised... plus how back then, the setting had the elementals as something entirely new, created to take up a lot of the maintenance work, and how all they really needed to do was report observations about their domains, that the Celestial Bureaucracy would process back down to the level of the Realm's government, who would dispatch Terrestrial Exalted to deal with it.

                              Maybe also a greater chance at being included in some local festivities.

                              Some of those assumptions have changed for Third Edition, but I think the basic framework could still be salvaged. In any case, it's an answer for somebody asking primarily about Second Edition stuff, so most of the ideas transfer directly.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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