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what did the gods get out of the primordial war?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
    In 3e, the geas specifically and solely forbade the gods (and any other beings who were of significant power at the time) from attacking the enemies of the gods. This hearkens back to its real-world mythological source, the role of mistletoe in the death of Baldr.
    Further reading for the curious:

    https://norse-mythology.org/tales/the-death-of-baldur/

    The wily and disloyal Loki sensed an opportunity for mischief. In disguise, he went to Frigg and asked her, “Did all things swear oaths to spare Baldur from harm?” “Oh, yes,” the goddess replied, “everything except the mistletoe. But the mistletoe is so small and innocent a thing that I felt it superfluous to ask it for an oath. What harm could it do to my son?”



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    • #47
      You know I never thought about it until now, but shouldn't she have made Loki swear not to harm Baldur? That would have been a much higher priority than mistletoe and could have avoided the whole problem!

      Maybe he did and just ate the botches. I don't think "it was the mistletoe that hurt him, not me!" would fly at most tables, though.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Aquillion View Post
        You know I never thought about it until now, but shouldn't she have made Loki swear not to harm Baldur? That would have been a much higher priority than mistletoe and could have avoided the whole problem!

        Maybe he did and just ate the botches. I don't think "it was the mistletoe that hurt him, not me!" would fly at most tables, though.
        May be me, but I think Loki got around the oath by not doing it himself, tricking Hodr into doing it instead (moreover, with Hodr unaware of what would happen).
        Last edited by marin; 03-02-2019, 04:23 PM.


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        • #49
          Originally posted by Aquillion View Post
          You know I never thought about it until now, but shouldn't she have made Loki swear not to harm Baldur? That would have been a much higher priority than mistletoe and could have avoided the whole problem!

          Maybe he did and just ate the botches. I don't think "it was the mistletoe that hurt him, not me!" would fly at most tables, though.
          This in a discussion where we're talking about the fact that the gods get around the head by getting humans to harm them.

          I think when you've elicited an oath that outright prevents almost every being or material from inflicting direct bodily harm, closing loopholes from dissembling can feel reasonably unnecessary.

          I think getting the blind god to do it was a combination of plausible deniability and being a dick.


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          • #50
            To be fair the iteration I heard on the whole Loki kills Baldr story always made it a point that since nothing was allowed to harm Baldr throwing crap at him was a game for most of the pantheon. Essentially the Aesir would throw whatever random crap they wanted at Baldr and the objects would stop or veer off randomly to avoid harming Baldr, So choosing Hodr would might have been an insulating precaution in case any promises he may or may not have sworn came into play by knowing about the mistletoe and the deniability that Loki wasn't the one who did it since it probably wouldn't have been the first time someone had taken a shot with a bow at Baldr.* Plus the old mixed deniability thing where pretty much everyone knows who's responsible, but no one can prove it satisfactorily enough to do anything about it. (See Sidereal Usurpation 2e at least.)


            *Honestly it was never said in an iteration, I just always assumed that when it said Frigg got everything to promise not to hurt her boy that it would have started with getting the other Aesir in out. The game being born out of a loophole that attacking Baldr was fair game so long as they didn't hurt him.
            Last edited by nalak42; 03-02-2019, 10:03 PM.

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