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[Ex 3 Lunars] Glorious Argent Beastiary! (A Lunar's Character Thread)

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  • #16
    Y'all will have to pardon me, I'm just using this space for some thinking about the Intimidate trick using the following Latent Ability.

    Predator’s Menace: Animals with an intimidate pool can
    be trained with this attack, causing an intimidated enemy
    to lose Initiative equal to the extra successes over his
    Resolve, even if he pays Willpower to resist. Once per scene.

    So the non legendary sized animals that can use this are:

    Bears
    Boar Tusked Crocodiles
    Death Moa
    Dog/Wolf
    Gorilla
    Great Cat (Intimidating Growl, close enough)
    Hellboar (ditto Intimidating Grunt)

    Okay, well and good, so you can't use the Join Battle trick as per word of Vance, but you can use it as a Reflexive in the first round thanks to:

    Poised Lion Attitude (Cha, 3m) which has a requirement of

    Argent Songbird Voice (Cha, 2m) well and good, as this charm allows you to buy successes with the Excellency and to affect a crowd without the usual -3 penalty.

    Other useful charms are:

    Feral Smile Tactic (App, 3m) which doubles 9s and is a pre-req for

    Terrifyng Beastial Visage (App, 5m) which gives 3 non charm dice (eventually) and if she beats them on Join Battle and uses this, they can't move (? checking) until they spend Willpower or someone else attacks.

    Predator and Prey Mirror (App, 3m) is interesting, would it act as a Tie of Fear (if you activate Predator mode) for the purposes of Feral Smile Tactic? (Allows you to strip an extra point of Initiative from all foes affected.)

    Perfect Symmetry (App, 5m) is of course useful for Pretty Kitty tactics, but we're getting real expensive now.

    Surprisingly

    Beast King Dictates (Cha, 4m) is not all that useful as you want to instill a tie of Fear, not ask for something (persuade, bargain, threaten)

    and

    Charismatic Lunar Trick (Cha, 4m) is strictly worse than Feral Smile Tactic + Argent Songbird if we are planning on blowing a stunted Excellency on buying successes.

    So lets start putting numbers to paper.

    Base Stats and stuff: (5 Cha + 5 Pre + 1 Specialty + 2 Stunt) = 13 base as usual.

    Now for Charms stack on Feral Smile for double 9s and activate Predator and Prey (for an extra initiative that doesn't count as a dice bonus), Activate Terrifying Beastial Visage in Gator form for 3 non charm dice extra and then spend 10 motes on a 5+5 excellency to buy 5 successes.

    So that is 5 (effectively 6) successes plus a 16 dice (double 9) pool for a grand total cost of (3m Poised Lion Attitude + 2m Argent Songbird + 3m Feral Smile Tactic + 3m Predator and Prey Mirror + 5m Terrifying Beastial Visage + 10m Buying successes with Argent Songbird) 26m, (which technically don't all happen in the same instance because Reflexive, otherwise I see anima flare in your immediate future?)

    in order to crash a (if Shikari) say 4-6 Resolve (and I guess you can add on a dice or 2 if you have max Appearance).

    So 6 successes + 8 more (ish, on 16 dice double 9s) is okay? I mean you are blowing basically more than half your mote pool to crash all of them first round if you go for the full combo. Hmm, needs some more consideration... (Note: Charm wise, I am only going for the low hanging fruit, Ess1, not too many pre-reqs)
    Last edited by prototype00; 03-04-2019, 09:22 AM.

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    • #17
      Further thinking about this very topic led to some interesting realizations:

      1. Whether the Scenelong charms are considered activated in the same instant or not after join battle is kind of moot. If they are not in the same instant (due to each Reflexive activation being it's own timing) then well and good, blast them through your Peripheral pool. If they are considered in the same instant just use (Inexplicable Mystery Incarnation, App, 2m) and you can Mute the whole darn gang of them (as they all enhance an Influence roll with any Attribute).

      2. Terrifying Beastial Visage is expensive at 5m, and actually all it does is it gives 3 non-charm bonus dice. But I think Predator and Prey Mirror is quite a bargain in this regard, not only does it give you that 1i stripped away bonus, it also penalizes their Resolve against your Intimidate based roll to Instill a fear based effect (since the recognition of a natural predator and fear are aligned influences), so actually it gives you 4 dice effectively (1i is 1 success=2dice, and -1 Resolve is 1 Success=2dice) for the roll.

      3. This trick (intimidate and crash) should be done (as I see it) only in the following circumstances (otherwise it is way too expensive to throw around!):
      - You are facing a small group of skilled foes (like a Wyld Hunt Shikari circle)
      - You are facing a foe with Legendary Size (crashing them with this does not fall afoul of the rules of Legendary Size regarding Withering attacks as it isn't a withering attack, then your buddies can round 1 start decisively hacking away at them)

      You should definitely not use it against:
      - Battlegroups (Static Initiative)
      - Immune to fear enemies (natch)
      - Insignificant foes (Its a big outlay, and if it isn't a significant fight, don't use your nuclear bomb)

      Hmm, I'm actually quite satisfied with how far I've brought this tactic, expensive but crashing up to 4+ dangerous foes or Fakharu round 1 is probably worth it.
      Last edited by prototype00; 03-05-2019, 11:55 AM.

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      • #18
        I don't even know what to say. This combo is superb. Just imagine what you can do with the as of yet unpreviewed strength and stam charms. Just Imagine this lunar is a Full Moon.


        Craft rewrite.
        Twitter Handle: at maudova

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Maudova View Post
          I don't even know what to say. This combo is superb. Just imagine what you can do with the as of yet unpreviewed strength and stam charms. Just Imagine this lunar is a Full Moon.
          I cannot claim any credit for the discovery, I think multiple people (including myself) had the idea at the same time. But I do so enjoy doing the legwork (just so that it doesn’t take me 30 mins at the table). So I’m glad you found it amusing.

          Oh, and Vance said that Reflexive Scenelongs are not considered to be activated in the same instant if you activate them at once (they each have their own timing) spend those motes from your Peripheral.

          Comment


          • #20
            Great synergy prototype00, but because the Supplemental charms that you are using on the threaten roll are Appearance charms, the roll must use Appearance, not Charisma. I also think that there might be a less nova style of play here. I'll only describe charms you didn't use in your combo.

            Charms:

            Quicksilver Second Face (Universal) [pay 2i to reflexively change shape]
            Unwavering Predator's Eye (Perception 2) [Use perception in place of wits for JB. pay 3m to double 9s on join battle.]
            Glance Oration Technique (Appearance 2) [communicate in animal form]
            Perfect Symmetry (Appearance 4) [use Glance Oration Technique free for whole scene. +1 Appearance]
            Feral Smile Tactic (Appearance 2) [Double 9s on intimidate. If in shape they fear they lose 1i]
            Predator and Prey Mirror (Appearance 2)
            Argent Songbird Voice (Charisma 2)
            Poised Lion Attitude (Charisma 2)
            Sinuous Striking Grace (Dexterity 2) [move in turn order as if initiative was Dexterity higher]


            Join Battle 5 Perception + 3 Awareness + 2 Stunt = 10 dice X 0.6 probability = 6 starting initiative [3m]

            Activate Sinuous Striking Grace 6i + 5 Dex = 11i for turn order, likely go first.

            Activate Quicksilver Second Face to reflexively become a Boar Tusked Crocodile [2i]

            Activate Argent Songbird Voice to remove multi-target penalty to social actions [2m]

            Activate Poised Lion Attitude to create reflexive threaten action [3m]

            Supplement with Feral Smile Tactic to Double 9s [3m]

            5 Appearance + 5 Presence + 1 specialty + 2 Stunt = 13 dice x 0.6 probability = 7.8 successes + 2 successes from Argent Songbird Voice = 9.8 successes [4m]

            (I assumed 2 successes because 4m does cost anima to flare)

            Miscellaneous action to become a pestle-tail.

            Total motes spent 22m. No anima flare.

            Next turn: Regain 5m

            Activate Perfect Symmetry for 5m (use personal motes to avoid increasing anima)

            The pestle-tail doesn't lose initiative for taking a full defense, and gains extra soak and hardness for doing so. Full defense can be flurried with social influence, so you can do that every round to convince your opponents that they don't want this fight.

            Possibly:
            Activate Predator as Prey Mirror to give opponents fearful intimacy towards your pestle-tail shape. [3m]
            Feral Smile Tactic each round to strip initiative from all opponents. [3m per round]


            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Indivisible View Post
              Great synergy prototype00, but because the Supplemental charms that you are using on the threaten roll are Appearance charms, the roll must use Appearance, not Charisma. I also think that there might be a less nova style of play here. I'll only describe charms you didn't use in your combo.
              A couple of things,

              1. I'm not sure about the Supplemental App only applying to App rolls, but I'll ask in the ask the Devs thread. Fair enough, it might be that way. (Edit: Actually, its right there in the rules. Pretty Kitty it is then!)

              Charms:

              Quicksilver Second Face (Universal) [pay 2i to reflexively change shape]
              Unwavering Predator's Eye (Perception 2) [Use perception in place of wits for JB. pay 3m to double 9s on join battle.]
              Glance Oration Technique (Appearance 2) [communicate in animal form]
              Perfect Symmetry (Appearance 4) [use Glance Oration Technique free for whole scene. +1 Appearance]
              Feral Smile Tactic (Appearance 2) [Double 9s on intimidate. If in shape they fear they lose 1i]
              Predator and Prey Mirror (Appearance 2)
              Argent Songbird Voice (Charisma 2)
              Poised Lion Attitude (Charisma 2)
              Sinuous Striking Grace (Dexterity 2) [move in turn order as if initiative was Dexterity higher]


              Join Battle 5 Perception + 3 Awareness + 2 Stunt = 10 dice X 0.6 probability = 6 starting initiative [3m]

              Activate Sinuous Striking Grace 6i + 5 Dex = 11i for turn order, likely go first.

              Activate Quicksilver Second Face to reflexively become a Boar Tusked Crocodile [2i]

              Activate Argent Songbird Voice to remove multi-target penalty to social actions [2m]

              Activate Poised Lion Attitude to create reflexive threaten action [3m]

              Supplement with Feral Smile Tactic to Double 9s [3m]

              5 Appearance + 5 Presence + 1 specialty + 2 Stunt = 13 dice x 0.6 probability = 7.8 successes + 2 successes from Argent Songbird Voice = 9.8 successes [4m]

              (I assumed 2 successes because 4m does cost anima to flare)

              Miscellaneous action to become a pestle-tail.

              Total motes spent 22m. No anima flare.

              Next turn: Regain 5m

              Activate Perfect Symmetry for 5m (use personal motes to avoid increasing anima)

              The pestle-tail doesn't lose initiative for taking a full defense, and gains extra soak and hardness for doing so. Full defense can be flurried with social influence, so you can do that every round to convince your opponents that they don't want this fight.

              Possibly:
              Activate Predator as Prey Mirror to give opponents fearful intimacy towards your pestle-tail shape. [3m]
              Feral Smile Tactic each round to strip initiative from all opponents. [3m per round]
              2. You can't do this trick with a Pestletail as the Pestletail does not have an Intimidate pool (I believe I pointed this out in my other post) and thus does not qualify for the Latent ability. If you mean to switch between a form that can use it and the Pestletail, that gets Mote expensive fast.

              3. The Latent Ability to strip Initiative (which is the main part of this tactic) can only be used 1/scene. Therefore:
              - I choose to nova on it, to make it as impactful as possible.
              - I chose the point of time where all foes are most vulnerable to it, right after they roll Join Battle and hopefully before they have had a chance to attack. By going nova then, I have the best chance of crashing everyone.

              prototype00
              Last edited by prototype00; 03-10-2019, 04:21 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by prototype00 View Post

                A couple of things,

                1. I'm not sure about the Supplemental App only applying to App rolls, but I'll ask in the ask the Devs thread. Fair enough, it might be that way. (Edit: Actually, its right there in the rules. Pretty Kitty it is then!)



                2. You can't do this trick with a Pestletail as the Pestletail does not have an Intimidate pool (I believe I pointed this out in my other post) and thus does not qualify for the Latent ability. If you mean to switch between a form that can use it and the Pestletail, that gets Mote expensive fast.

                3. The Latent Ability to strip Initiative (which is the main part of this tactic) can only be used 1/scene. Therefore:
                - I choose to nova on it, to make it as impactful as possible.
                - I chose the point of time where all foes are most vulnerable to it, right after they roll Join Battle and hopefully before they have had a chance to attack. By going nova then, I have the best chance of crashing everyone.

                prototype00
                While the threaten-based latent ability can only be used once per scene, Feral Smile Tactic's initiative stripping clause has no such limit.
                You could actually continue to make initiative-sapping threaten actions while still in the Boar Tusked Crocodile form if you want, and would remove the need for Predator and Prey Mirror because your enemies would already have a fearful intimacy towards that form. I just included switching to pestletail because it has a non-latent ability that removes the initiative cost from Full Defense and improves their soak and hardness. It seemed like a good way for social exalts without a lot of fighting ability to turtle up while still contributing to the fight.

                My reading on shapeshifting is that you commit the 4 motes, and you can keep shifting between forms so long as those motes are committed. The section on shapeshifting talks about committing motes when you shapeshift, and uncommitted motes to return to your natural form, but I didn't see anything about having to make commitments for each shape. Quicksilver Second Face's cost is in initiative, not motes.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ah, I misunderstood, you mean to keep using the 1 initiative stripping ability of Feral Smile Tactic to strip 1 initiative each round from that point on? Okay, I guess. I'm not a fan of that tactic (not splashy enough for the cost), but fair enough.

                  The initial Latent Ability big attack needs to be done as a frightening animal though.

                  prototype00

                  Re: Quicksilver Second Face, I will check in Ask the Devs.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Looks like the Boartusk Crocobile has been replaced in the Predator's Menace build. Not only do swans have an intimidate pool, and thus can learn the latent ability, but they also have a Special Ability called Bluster which grants a point of initiative whenever they successfully threaten an enemy.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I'd worry that the stats are kind of poor. You wouldn't want to spend the rest of the fight as a swan, while you might as a boartusk crocodile.
                      Hippopotamus and Moose are new competition with Pestletail for just beating people up

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                      • #26
                        The Hippo is nuts. It has better damage than a Pestletail, better hardness and equal soak to the Croc, and it has that Soak sinking ability that the Croc had, so your big attack is truly scary when you are accurate.

                        Oh, and it can cripple you with a regular decisive. Imagine losing 2-3 Str AND Dex whenever you are a target of a Decisive attack!

                        AND a Threaten pool so you can do the crash shenanigans.
                        Last edited by prototype00; 03-12-2019, 10:08 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Also, 2 free successes on attacks against crashed enemies.

                          Moose is also pretty good - 17 damage, 16 soak, can add extra successes to damage on decisive attacks, can make reflexive grapples after decisive attacks. How does that work, actually? Wouldn't you almost never make the initiative roll, and crash yourself if you did?

                          Walrus isn't bad - 14 damage, 10 soak, can add extra successes to damage on decisive attacks, ignore 4 points of soak, -1 to enemies overwhelming, +2 evasion underwater.
                          Last edited by autXautY; 03-12-2019, 10:16 PM.

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                          • #28
                            The Hippo is amazing. It can pull off the Predator's Menace trick, then strip another initiative away by rushing with Instinct Driven Beast Movement. If the enemy still isn't crashed the can probably pull it off with a withering attack that ignores a lot of soak, and if they are crashed then they add two successes to a decisive attack that lowers their dice pools for the rest of the scene. Even if they try to escape the hippo adds two successes to rushes against fleeing enemies and knocks them prone with a withering attack that retroactively applies the prone Defense penalty.

                            Wasp Sting Blur combos nastily with this, because if you use your high initiative to make a decisive attack, deal 3+ damage, and maim someone, you can immediately make a reflexive decisive attack that can further maim them.

                            With the Swan I was just thinking of lowering enemy initiative when gaining a bunch of initiative, and then switching to a Pack Hunter form so that I could crash low initiative enemies with Coyote and Badger Tactic. Hippo involves a lot less shifting and doesn't require investing in latent abilities like Cat does.

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                            • #29
                              Here's my Essence 5 Lunar character. 446xp spent. She took quite a while to convert to the new book! At Essence 5, you just have so many charms, and yet I still had to cut lots of charms I wanted but couldn't afford.

                              Dr Soma Vaidya, kung-fu doctor

                              Casteless
                              Totem: Green viper
                              Anima: A tangled mass of vipers hissing

                              Attributes

                              Strength 5 Charisma 3 Perception 5
                              Dexterity 5 Manipulation 3 Intelligence (F) 5
                              Stamina (F) 5 Appearance 3 Wits 3


                              Abilities

                              Combat Abilities:
                              Athletics 3
                              Archery
                              Awareness 3
                              Brawl 3
                              Dodge 2
                              Melee
                              Resistance 2 (+1 vs Poison)
                              Snake Style 5 (+1 Unarmed)
                              Stealth 3
                              Thrown
                              War

                              Mental Abilities:
                              Craft 3 (Pharmacy)
                              Craft 3 (Carpentry)
                              Lore 3
                              Medicine 5 (+1 Poison)
                              Ride
                              Sail 2
                              Occult
                              Survival 3

                              Social abilities:
                              Bureaucracy
                              Integrity 2
                              Investigation
                              Larceny 2
                              Linguistics 1
                              Presence 2
                              Performance
                              Socialise 2


                              Other stats

                              Willpower 6

                              Essence: 5
                              Soak: 8 (13 in Snake Form)
                              Parry: 6 (Enemies take -1 or -3 penalty to hit when in Snake form)
                              Evasion: 4 (Enemies take -1 or -3 penalty to hit when in Snake form)
                              Guile/Resolve: 3
                              Join Battle: 8 dice (3m for double 9s)
                              Personal Motes: 20
                              Peripheral Motes: 54

                              Snake Strike (Withering): 15 dice (+12 damage)


                              Intimacies
                              Defining: “We must cut out the infection that is the Realm”, “Helping the sick is my duty, where possible”
                              Major: Uvanavu (Worship), Doctors (Respect), “Better a few die than infection spreads”, The Eight Venom Sisterhood (My family), My brothers (My blood family), Enhenduanna (Killed a good man)
                              Minor: Luna (Worship), Martial Artists (Respect), Metrin (My homeland), Anathema (Kinship), Kitangaala (I still have friends there), Golden Hero (Was a good man), Light (A Righteous man), Fulgens (a skilled general), Obsidian Butterfly (Tough)

                              Merits:

                              Bite 1
                              Contacts 1 (Doctors of the Land of Lakes and Rivers)
                              Heart's Blood 1
                              Martial Arts 4
                              Subtle 2 (Bite)
                              Languages 1 (Flametongue, Riverspeak)


                              Charms

                              Strength Excellency
                              Dexterity Excellency
                              Stamina Excellency
                              Charisma Excellency
                              Manipulation Excellency
                              Perception Excellency
                              Intelligence Excellency
                              Wits Excellency

                              Universal
                              Hybrid Body Rearrangement (Enhanced Senses, Snaketongue, Scales +2)
                              Many-Faced Moon Transformation

                              Snake
                              Serpentine Evasion
                              Striking Cobra Technique
                              Snake Form
                              Armour-Penetrating Fang Strike
                              Crippling Pressure-Point Strike
                              Essence-Fangs and Scales Technique
                              Uncoiling Serpent Prana
                              Snake Strikes the Heel
                              Countless Coils Evasion
                              Essence Venom Strike

                              Dexterity
                              Finding the Needle's Eye
                              Striking Mospid Method
                              Sinuous Striking Grace
                              Unerring Fang Technique
                              Coiled Serpent Strikes

                              Stamina
                              Hero's Heart Challenge
                              Poisonous Blood Prana
                              Acid-Spitting Attack

                              Charisma
                              Beast-King Dictates
                              Debt of Borrowed Skin

                              Manipulation
                              Moonlight Curtain Drawn
                              Glib Tongue Technique

                              Appearance
                              Changing Plumage Mastery

                              Perception
                              Sense-Sharpening Change
                              Stricken Calf Sense
                              Prey's Scent Discernment
                              Unwavering Predator's Eye
                              Wolf Eye Advantage
                              Blood on the Wind
                              Scent of Bygone Ages
                              Inevitable Spore Discovery
                              Understanding the Prey
                              Exquisite Heart's Taste
                              Soul-Piercing Predator Gaze

                              Intelligence
                              Night's Mercy Panacea
                              Blood-And-Tear Elixir Cultivation
                              Plague-Swallowing Kiss
                              Moonlight Cauldron Apothecary
                              Bone-Mending Technique
                              Flesh-Sculpting Art
                              Sharing Luna's Gifts
                              Many-Phase Insights
                              Protean Creator Insights (Craft carpentry)
                              Pattern-Realising Genius

                              Wits
                              Scorpion-and-Toad Absolution
                              Adder Fang Method


                              Animal forms:
                              Snake (Green viper, Totem)
                              Bear (Sloth bear)
                              Horse (Brown mare)
                              Tiger (female)
                              Carp
                              Crow Pheasant (Greater Coucal)
                              Cat (Domestic, brown)
                              Eagle (serpent eagle)
                              Jellyfish
                              Sunbird

                              Equipment:
                              Exceptional medical tools, chain shirt, various drugs and poisons


                              My characters:
                              Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                              Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

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