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[Ex 3 Lunars] Glorious Argent Beastiary! (A Lunar's Character Thread)

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  • #61
    Originally posted by autXautY View Post
    Wood Dragon's Claw is a reasonable replacement for an artifact weapon, I think. I don't see why you couldn't use it as a cat. And has +5 accuracy, not +4.
    Actually, the overwhelming might be almost a bigger boost than the damage - one of the scariest things for this build is someone with 15+soak, because gaining initiative will take you forever, and one hit loses it all.
    Well, true and I’ve got both Str charms and an arifact weapon to grant overwhelming.

    Hopefully, being scarily accurate (20 Resting Accuracy!!!) is enough to bridge the gap.

    Yah, armor does have sneakiness issues. Potentially you could get an evocation to hide/disguise it? Many Pockets Meditation + Quicksilver Armor Approach can don hidden armor in a turn, but several charms and motes is a bit expensive.

    Alternatively, at Essence 2: Perfect Hybrid Interaction (Unusual Hide). Or find a mutated cat and eat it. Or find a cat, mutate it with Sharing Luna's Gifts, and steal it's food while taunting it.
    Unusual Hide OOOOO is certainly a possible purchase/Tell mutation. Less Ninja potential but certainly better survivability (so 8 base, then up to 4 more so 12 in total) and with Moon’s Hidden Face, also not noticeable.

    Or, if you're going for sorcery: Invulnerable Skin of Bronze: +6 soak, and an extra +essence if you aren't wearing armor.
    I though of this, but the Medium armour status gave me pause.

    EV is mostly good enough, but someone if an enemy solar throws 28 dice at you, or an enemy sidereal throws 21 dice with TN 4 at you, you'll want soak. Even if they just send 16 dice at you, you'd rather not choose between a slight chance of taking 10+ dice of withering damage, or spending 6m straight to prevent the hit.
    Was mostly using Deebs as a baseline, but you are right.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by prototype00 View Post
      I though of this, but the Medium armour status gave me pause.
      Any particular thing you worry about? I don't think this build uses martial arts, and I don't recall any charms besides stamina ones that forbid wearing armor.
      ISoB explicitly doesn't impair mobility 'normally', just for martial arts and similar effects

      Originally posted by prototype00 View Post
      Was mostly using Deebs as a baseline, but you are right.

      Right, DBs are going to have a lot less ability to overpower high defense. Maxing 24 dice and a success (11+2stunt+5 weapon+6motes+wp), but if they have anything other than a light weapon their pool gets below what can frequently hit you.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by autXautY View Post
        Any particular thing you worry about? I don't think this build uses martial arts, and I don't recall any charms besides stamina ones that forbid wearing armor.
        ISoB explicitly doesn't impair mobility 'normally', just for martial arts and similar effects
        Does it not penalize your evasion? If not thats cool, might be something I pick up.

        Right, DBs are going to have a lot less ability to overpower high defense. Maxing 24 dice and a success (11+2stunt+5 weapon+6motes+wp), but if they have anything other than a light weapon their pool gets below what can frequently hit you.
        Yeah, but it isn't overly onerous to give this character decent soak.

        Just noticed that I miscounted accuracy, its actually resting accuracy 21, isn't it? (5 Dex + 5 Brawl + 1 Specialty + 2 Stunt + 5 Artifact + 3 Ambush Hunter), goodness, thats rather mote efficient.
        Last edited by prototype00; 07-09-2019, 08:42 AM.

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        • #64
          Kylina Sele (Take 2) Okay, lets try this again, I've managed to trim a bit so that I can fit it all in at character creation...
          Spirit Shape: Cat
          Tell: Unusual Hide OOOOO




          Attributes

          Physical (Secondary) (3bp spent)


          Strength OOO
          Dex OOOOO (Favored)
          Sta OOO

          Social (Primary)

          Charisma OO
          Manipulation OOOOO (Favored)
          Appearance OOOOO (Favored)

          Mental (Tertiary)

          Perception OO
          Intelligence OOO
          Wits OOO (Favored)

          Abilities (8bp spent)

          Athletics OO
          Awareness OOO
          Brawl OOOOO (Specialty: Bite)
          Dodge OOOOO (Specialty: Small Forms)
          Integrity O
          Larceny OOO
          Linguistics O
          Occult OOO
          Presence OOO
          Socialize OOO (Specialty: Cat Got your Tongue?)
          Stealth OOO (Specialty: Small Forms)

          Merits (4 bp spent)

          Artifact (Belt of Shadow Walking) OOO
          Heart's Blood O
          Stolen Faces OO
          Unusual Hide (Tell) OOOOO
          Latent: Underfoot Menace

          Charms

          Excellencies: (Yes, she has Excellencies in all attributes. She is literally omni-capable. No, it wasn't easy, as you'll soon see)

          Strength
          Dexterity
          Stamina
          Charisma
          Manipulation
          Appearance
          Perception
          Intelligence
          Wits

          Universal:

          Quicksilver Second Face: Never be left without your battle form.

          Strength:

          Ferocious Biting Tooth: Eventually this will be our main source of Overwhelming, for now its merely decent, but it also gives us our Str Excellency, which we can stunt for +4 damage.

          Divine Predator Strike: This is basically also Overwhelming, and these two charms go well together to boost our damage a long with the Strength Excellency.

          Stamina:

          Impenetrable Beast Armor/Durant Quicksilver Adaptation: The wonder combination is the basis of Lunar Soak. In this case, we are hoping we don't get hit (9-10 Evasion), but if we do, this should take some of the edge off. (Soak is 8 normally, can be raised up to 12 for 4 motes, once this character has some Lunar XP under her belt, she can pick up Invulnerable Skin of Bronze for those really dangerous days for 14 soak resting which can be raised to 18 with the Excellency)

          Dexterity:

          Agile Beast Defense: Our 1m workhorse will always give us +1 to Evasion and we can apply it after we see what our foe rolls (if it isn't 9, don't bother)

          Bending Before the Storm: Our Onslaught Negator.

          Charisma:

          Argent Songbird Voice: Our omni-applicable success-on-social actions generator.

          Debt of Borrowed Skin: Our altruistic method of stealing other people's faces. A thief with a heart of gold, indeed.

          Perception:

          Perceiving the Hidden World: Not only does this let us see immaterial, as a Cat we auto-detect out to Long Range!

          Spirit Rending Fury: For 1 mote per attack, this lets us attack with impunity with the Belt of Shadow Walking if the enemy can't strike Immaterial.

          Intelligence:

          Memory Drinking Meditation: If you ever replace someone and don't want their spouse to suspect, accept no substitutes. Also super good at collecting information on others (just steal the faces of those around them and reap the intel).

          Terrestrial Circle Sorcery: No need to belabour the usefulness here. I chose Mists of Eventide as a Control Spell as it will serve you well in stealthy infiltrations if you can put people to sleep and they can't see where it is coming from.

          Wood Dragon's Claw: A really key part of our combat - an artifact weapon on demand allows us to attack at a resting Withering Accuracy of 21 (!!!) (Dex 5 + Brawl 5 + Specialty 1 + Ambush Hunter 3 + Accuracy 5 + Stunt 2).

          Combined with Divine Predator Strike and Ferocious Biting Tooth, you are basically always adding 3 dice to your post-soak damage (you'll get 2 10s on 21 dice most of the time, statistically) and your overwhelming is going to be at least 4 so that's a 7 dice overwhelming damage even if their soak eats everything, which is nice.

          Appearance:

          Subtle Silver Declaration / Moons Hidden Face: Since our Tell is now obvious, these are necessary investments to not reveal ourselves. Generally useful too.

          Edit: Good call autXautY on Wood Dragon's Claw/Artifact weapon. Stacking that and Ambush Hunter is really quite stellar (best resting accuracy in the game...?)
          Last edited by prototype00; 07-09-2019, 11:45 AM.

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          • #65
            I generally like what you've done with the character (though, the name is pretty groan-worthy). However, I have reservations about the Tell (in both the most recent iteration and the first).

            For the most recent, were I the Storyteller, I would want some sort of justification as to why you would have Unusual Hide at rank 5. The most I would allow for a cat totem would be rank 2 without some other justification. Is this Wyld-mutated cat that is your spirit shape? Man, what even are the rules for taking such animals as spirit shapes and taking those mutations as your Tell? Normally, taking such forms requires the Lunar to commit extra motes when changing into those shapes. Does taking them as your Tell absolve you from having to commit those motes? Anyway, I believe the inconsistency between cats and Unusual Hide 5 was why autXautY was suggesting anything and everything that could get you that Merit except taking it as a Tell (though, correct me if I am wrong about that, aut).

            For the first iteration (and this is just me being curious more than anything), what sort of physical manifestation were you thinking that Silent Movement would take?
            Last edited by Mynorin; 07-09-2019, 04:28 PM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Mynorin View Post
              I generally like what you've done with the character (though, the name is pretty groan-worthy). However, I have reservations about the Tell (in both the most recent iteration and the first).

              For the most recent, were I the Storyteller, I would want some sort of justification as to why you would have Unusual Hide at rank 5. The most I would allow for a cat totem would be rank 2 without some other justification. Is this Wyld-mutated cat that is your spirit shape? Man, what even are the rules for taking such animals as spirit shapes and taking those mutations as your Tell? Normally, taking such forms requires the Lunar to commit extra motes when changing into those shapes. Does taking them as your Tell absolve you from having to commit those motes? Anyway, I believe the inconsistency between cats and Unusual Hide 5 was why autXautY was suggesting anything and everything that could get you that Merit except taking it as a Tell (though, correct me if I am wrong about that, aut).

              For the first iteration (and this is just me being curious more than anything), what sort of physical manifestation were you thinking that Silent Movement would take?
              I'd agree that unusual hide is an odd tell for a cat-totem. I guess you could explain it as one of the non-totem tells - hide covered in scar tissue maybe?
              My impression is you don't spend extra motes for keeping your tell when you shapeshifter - you've more or less bought it using merits points instead of motes. I think there's an ask in the ask the devs thread about it.
              That, plus the already existing tell in the first write-up, plus the option to turn it on and off were why I suggested alternate means. Also, I enjoy the idea of mutating an animal, then stealing it's shape.
              I'd imagine cat-like feet would be the manifestation of silent movement.

              Do people interpret a tell as opening up protean charms? What about turning into a mutated animal?

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              • #67
                If you're hell-bent on unusual hide, why not be a chimera, and be a cat-armadillo chimera, and get unusual hide OOOOO via the armadillo for your chimera spirit shape and use the cat stats as a base line to cheese that in? Even leaves you with one mutation point.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Cheshire Cat View Post
                  If you're hell-bent on unusual hide, why not be a chimera, and be a cat-armadillo chimera, and get unusual hide OOOOO via the armadillo for your chimera spirit shape and use the cat stats as a base line to cheese that in? Even leaves you with one mutation point.
                  I do believe the Chimera Charm is only applicable in HBT (As per my reading of Chimera Soul Expression), when you turn into an animal, you turn into that animal, in this case, a cat, barring Tell shennanigans. Chimeras are for wolf-man form.

                  I generally like what you've done with the character (though, the name is pretty groan-worthy). However, I have reservations about the Tell (in both the most recent iteration and the first).
                  Heh, you're the first person to comment on the name. I'm quite proud that I spent less than no time thinking it up. ;P

                  For the most recent, were I the Storyteller, I would want some sort of justification as to why you would have Unusual Hide at rank 5. The most I would allow for a cat totem would be rank 2 without some other justification. Is this Wyld-mutated cat that is your spirit shape? Man, what even are the rules for taking such animals as spirit shapes and taking those mutations as your Tell? Normally, taking such forms requires the Lunar to commit extra motes when changing into those shapes. Does taking them as your Tell absolve you from having to commit those motes? Anyway, I believe the inconsistency between cats and Unusual Hide 5 was why autXautY was suggesting anything and everything that could get you that Merit except taking it as a Tell (though, correct me if I am wrong about that, aut).
                  See, the thing is the Tell is special, and here are a couple of things that have already been discussed but I will re-post here:

                  1. The Tell doesn't have to have any relation to your Spirit Shape. It can be any odd thing (like a Shadow that moves independently of you, is given as one of the examples). So if you wanted a Tell (My skin is made of Black Onyx) as long as you bought it with merit dots, thats fine.

                  2. The Tell is (As auXautY said) always in all your shapes and thus if you choose it as something that does something (like a mutation, unusual hide) its basically your always on Superpower and doesn't cost extra motes.

                  For the first iteration (and this is just me being curious more than anything), what sort of physical manifestation were you thinking that Silent Movement would take?
                  Hmm, I was thinking those cute cat-pads on the bottom of her feet, personally. The silent movement mutation is not one that is called out as obvious like Quills or Unusual Hide, so it should be possible not to flaunt it if you don't need to (hence why I didn't buy the mutation hiding charm).

                  Do people interpret a tell as opening up protean charms? What about turning into a mutated animal?
                  I believe it's been asked, neither the Tell, nor a mutated animal qualifies you for Protean benefits, it has to be something the actual animal itself has.

                  Edit: Let me lay out the ways to mitigate Soak Woes as I see them:

                  1. Moonsilver Armor: The drawback here is it’s obvious and you don’t have any way to remove it (except more Ess2 Charms) as a cat.

                  2. Unusual Hide (Tell): You can make it subtle via a pair of charms that also disguised your Tell, might have some flavour concerns (though The Black (Onyx) cat does have some charm).

                  3: Invulnerable Skin of Bronze: The drawback here is that it is obvious and you are heavy (not good for sneaking on a beam). However you can dismiss it and resume it as a cat, but not instantly. This is always an option as you can just pick up the spell with Lunar XP.

                  What would y’all recommend?
                  Last edited by prototype00; 07-09-2019, 08:56 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Hmm, besides Lore 3 for introducing facts, any other ability minimums for doing stuff (not crafting) for Kylina, since she is Omni-Excellency?

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by prototype00 View Post

                      I do believe the Chimera Charm is only applicable in HBT (As per my reading of Chimera Soul Expression), when you turn into an animal, you turn into that animal, in this case, a cat, barring Tell shennanigans. Chimeras are for wolf-man form.
                      My impression is it also applies to your spirit shape, but not to any other shapes.

                      Originally posted by prototype00 View Post
                      Edit: Let me lay out the ways to mitigate Soak Woes as I see them:

                      1. Moonsilver Armor: The drawback here is it’s obvious and you don’t have any way to remove it (except more Ess2 Charms) as a cat.

                      2. Unusual Hide (Tell): You can make it subtle via a pair of charms that also disguised your Tell, might have some flavour concerns (though The Black (Onyx) cat does have some charm).

                      3: Invulnerable Skin of Bronze: The drawback here is that it is obvious and you are heavy (not good for sneaking on a beam). However you can dismiss it and resume it as a cat, but not instantly. This is always an option as you can just pick up the spell with Lunar XP.

                      What would y’all recommend?
                      In the long run, I'd say all 3. Or, get a suit of moonsilver armor, learn invulnerable skin of bronze, and get some access to unusual hide (Tell/chimera on spirit shape/PHI/alternate form/whatever random lunar charms help). None of them are that expensive, and you can pick and choose what to use when - if you've abandoned subtlety as you march to glorious battle, put on the armor, turn your hide into iron, then turn it into bronze. (Iron which has been turned into bronze is twice as hard as regular iron or bronze) If you need to sneak into a warren of thin, fragile beams watched by eagle-eyed guardians who would never suspect an ordinary cat, yet instantly tell the difference between an ordinary cat and one with mutations, leave them all off as you turn into a totally ordinary cat, and maybe add unusual hide if a fight starts and it doesn't cost an action.
                      I think there's a few hearthstones that add long-duration soak, but also require committing motes (in Arms of the Chosen, the bamboo one and one of the stone ones with evocations)

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by autXautY View Post
                        My impression is it also applies to your spirit shape, but not to any other shapes.
                        You are absolutely correct, so something something Unusual Hide as a Kitty that I can keep hidden with Moons Hidden Face (so that she looks like an ordinary kitty), then I can also purchase the Silent Movement as my Tell anyway.

                        In the long run, I'd say all 3. Or, get a suit of moonsilver armor, learn invulnerable skin of bronze, and get some access to unusual hide (Tell/chimera on spirit shape/PHI/alternate form/whatever random lunar charms help). None of them are that expensive, and you can pick and choose what to use when - if you've abandoned subtlety as you march to glorious battle, put on the armor, turn your hide into iron, then turn it into bronze. (Iron which has been turned into bronze is twice as hard as regular iron or bronze) If you need to sneak into a warren of thin, fragile beams watched by eagle-eyed guardians who would never suspect an ordinary cat, yet instantly tell the difference between an ordinary cat and one with mutations, leave them all off as you turn into a totally ordinary cat, and maybe add unusual hide if a fight starts and it doesn't cost an action.
                        I think there's a few hearthstones that add long-duration soak, but also require committing motes (in Arms of the Chosen, the bamboo one and one of the stone ones with evocations)
                        The Hearthstone is a good idea but ST fiat to make it stable I guess. With the Desert Basilisc series of charms, socketing is not an issue, so great idea!
                        Last edited by prototype00; 07-09-2019, 10:11 PM.

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                        • #72
                          A few thoughts on the cat woman build:
                          • If you're using Wood Dragon's Claws, your Brawl specialty should probably be WDC instead of Bite
                          • For a few specialties, they should be Tiny form, not Small form
                          • If you want Unusual Hide for your tell, you should choose a different form for your totem and say that you got cat through the Heart's Blood merit. None of your plan requires a Cat Totem.
                          • You need 4 mental attribute charms to buy Sorcery and you only have 3.

                          I have to say, being able to use Wood Dragon's Claws in cat form makes Death Kitty a lot more powerful.

                          Moon's Hidden Face could have interesting interactions with Wood Dragon's Claws, especially if you make it your control spell and add evocations. Actually, wouldn't it also hide Invulnerable Skin of Bronze?

                          Graceful Crane Stance would be a must if you want to sneak while Bronze.

                          For Soak:

                          Stamina 3: 3
                          Unusual Hide 5: 5
                          Light Armor: 5
                          Invulnerable Skin of Bronze: 6

                          Resting Soak 19 + another 4 that can be added after a hit
                          Hardness 6

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Indivisible View Post
                            A few thoughts on the cat woman build:
                            • If you're using Wood Dragon's Claws, your Brawl specialty should probably be WDC instead of Bite
                            • For a few specialties, they should be Tiny form, not Small form
                            • If you want Unusual Hide for your tell, you should choose a different form for your totem and say that you got cat through the Heart's Blood merit. None of your plan requires a Cat Totem.
                            • You need 4 mental attribute charms to buy Sorcery and you only have 3.
                            Will respond in order:

                            1. Yep, need to change that to Specialty: Claw or something. Shame, lots of animal shapes have great bites.

                            2. I was going for the more general meaning of “Small” but I take your point. Most other Tiny Creatures don’t have the advantages of cats though.

                            3. But the styling, it’s got to be an elegant character... It’s okay Chimera form into Unusual Hide is better, so I get to keep my kitty Spirit Shape. I wonder what to chimera with that would be thematic and believable? Some kind of insect maybe? A Black Widow? Then I can take Silent Movement as my Tell.

                            4. Totally correct, I’m playing around in my head to make Physical Primary and Max Str OOOOO, so I can move Charms around. Also a 15 base damage - 20 with the Excellency is so tempting with that 21 Accuracy...

                            I have to say, being able to use Wood Dragon's Claws in cat form makes Death Kitty a lot more powerful.
                            Isn’t it? Man, you can just coast on that 21 dice accuracy and put all motes into damage vs 99% of foes.

                            Moon's Hidden Face could have interesting interactions with Wood Dragon's Claws, especially if you make it your control spell and add evocations. Actually, wouldn't it also hide Invulnerable Skin of Bronze?
                            This I’m not so sure of, it specifically says mutations, so magic effects are probably not covered.

                            Graceful Crane Stance would be a must if you want to sneak while Bronze.
                            First thing I was thinking of, really.

                            For Soak:

                            Stamina 3: 3
                            Unusual Hide 5: 5
                            Light Armor: 5
                            Invulnerable Skin of Bronze: 6

                            Resting Soak 19 + another 4 that can be added after a hit
                            Hardness 6
                            I’m still leery about Moonsilver armour, but the rest of the stuff (Unusual Hide/ISOB) is definitely stuff you can run around with that still gives you respectable Soak. But that’s just me.
                            Last edited by prototype00; 07-10-2019, 01:29 AM.

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                            • #74
                              Isn't there any charms to hide armour, or are they all at higher Essence?

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                                Isn't there any charms to hide armour, or are they all at higher Essence?
                                None, and I went looking specifically for this build. (Hope I didn’t miss any!)

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