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Solar fan charms for swimming?

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  • #16
    Except they can’t because their is no wind doesn’t make the impossible possible, as in it doesn’t make it so that water acts as air. The old Water Aspect trick literally did that, it made impossible tricks like firing missile weapons underwater work.


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    • #17
      Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

      Yeah, I mean, Solar charms even DO straight up have an answer to this problem, and the charm that perfectly fixes it also perfectly fixes a bunch of other problems, it's just Essence 3. Essence 3 is also where Solars can fly, and form armour from nothing.

      Before that Solars need to rely on, as you say, effects outside their charmset. Other charms that help are things like Racing Hare Method, which applies to swimming equally to running, and lets her dive DEEP in her (Stamina) minutes of breath holding.
      I just think that it’s a natural extension of Solar excellence that they should be able to massively enhance holding their breath and withstand crushing pressure long before they can achieve immunity to elemental environmental harm at Essence 3.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        Except they can’t because their is no wind doesn’t make the impossible possible, as in it doesn’t make it so that water acts as air. The old Water Aspect trick literally did that, it made impossible tricks like firing missile weapons underwater work.
        I'm actually not sure, IS firing a bow under water impossible? Fang-Of-The-Depths Draw seems to imply that it isn't, it's just done with penalties, I imagine a -5 penalty. It makes a special exception to state that with that charm even firing a firewand under water becomes possible. Also, Water Aspects might not be the best benchmark to go against here. Fire Aspects can splash unharmed through liquid hot magma flows, and Air Aspects can leap with complete disregard from a Hislanti Airship.

        There are some things that DBs get to do because they're the element exalted that even Solars can't, it's just that the list is so small it's really easy to forget that it exists. There's like 3 things on it. Like how the DB flight charm lets you truly fly, where as the Solar one only lets you fly any time you'd actually want to fly. It's a really really small distinction but it's there.

        Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

        I just think that it’s a natural extension of Solar excellence that they should be able to massively enhance holding their breath and withstand crushing pressure long before they can achieve immunity to elemental environmental harm at Essence 3.
        I think breath holding as a time extension is certainly okay, although not indefinite like Element-Resisting Prana is. Even ERP is pushing the bounds a bit, I think, considering it lets a Solar spend decades underwater without a single breath of air. The complete immunity to crushing depths might be worth the investment into Supernal Survival to make it happen before essence 3 though.

        EDIT: And I think Black Fathoms Blessed might lend to the idea that it's an Essence 3 effect, since it's another Essence 3 charm that also does it.
        Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 03-06-2019, 01:48 AM.

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        • #19
          Water Aspects are NOT all Dragon-Blooded. Non-Water Aspects have to get Unbreathing Earth Meditation to extend their time underwater.

          That Charm is probably Essence 3, too. though I don't recall.


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          • #20
            Normally when you fight underwater won’t you have to split your actions for swimming, especially in a stormy sea or rushing river. And if even knee deep water is difficult terrain with penalties, being fully submerged should be much worse, hence splitting actions. Which gives the natural advantage to those with powers or natural abilities that allow them to treat water like normal humans treat an open field.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
              Water Aspects are NOT all Dragon-Blooded. Non-Water Aspects have to get Unbreathing Earth Meditation to extend their time underwater.

              That Charm is probably Essence 3, too. though I don't recall.
              Actually it’s essence 2, but is only scenelonng with a max of (STA + Res)x2 rounds of combat. Solars are actually way better than Dragonblooded at staying under water.

              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
              Normally when you fight underwater won’t you have to split your actions for swimming, especially in a stormy sea or rushing river. And if even knee deep water is difficult terrain with penalties, being fully submerged should be much worse, hence splitting actions. Which gives the natural advantage to those with powers or natural abilities that allow them to treat water like normal humans treat an open field.
              Actually, oddly, I think that’s not entirely true. I think you need to flurry a swim with other actions to keep your head above water, but water itself is not difficult terrain. Slogging through it is, but in the DB Water athletics charm it specifically calls out the ability to ignore difficult terrain caused by whirlpools and stuff, which is nonsensical if water is always difficult terrain anyway. Also I don’t know if swimming under water requires the same flurry action, since you can just let yourself slowly sink without having to fight to keep your head up out of the water.

              You’re totally right that the water aspect anima gives an advantage over an essence 1-2 Solar who isn’t Survival a supernal, but it really should, shouldn’t it? Nobody is complaining that an essence 1-2 Solar without Supernal Survival can’t duel a fire aspect while slogging through knee high lava on equal footing. It’s not even like the Solar isn’t going to win anyway, she is, she just has a penalty.

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