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  • Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

    I’m not sure how the printed Charm is a great fit. What is it meant for?

    As a mental defense it’s just as unwieldy to use as Heart-Eclipsing Shroud, which seems meant more as a disguise for your real feelings and identity than as a mental defense.

    The Lunar Charm takes just as long to use, so it is just as awkward as a mental defense. And the transformation doesn’t change your Defining Intimacies, so it isn’t as good at disguising what you really think, OR protecting you from social influence.
    It lets you play the story of a character with a darker alter ego or second self, and back that story up with mechanics. Some Charms are written for a specific mechanical purpose, but this isn't one of them.


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    • Originally posted by limaxophobiac View Post
      What does Unmoving Aurochs Defense actually do when you reflexively activate it as someone is trying to slam/throw you?

      It clearly stops you from being moved across range bands but what are the mechanical implitcations of the fact you can't be moved?

      1. Does it stop all damage from the slam/throw? (It seems like it would since a slam/throw is doing damage by moving you very fast into something and the charm stops you from being moved.)

      1a. In that case does the guy trying to slam you still reset to base initiatve on a decisive slam?

      1b. Do you get released after the failed slam/throw or are you still grappled?

      2. If it doesn't stop damage from slam/throw, does it do anything but stop you moving across range bands?
      All it does is stop you from being forcibly moved. Everything else, including damage, happens normally.


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      • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
        All it does is stop you from being forcibly moved. Everything else, including damage, happens normally.

        So to be clear, if I hit a Lunar with Heaven's Thunder Hammer, this charm pervents the knock back...but not the fall damage the charm inflicts?


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        • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
          It lets you play the story of a character with a darker alter ego or second self, and back that story up with mechanics. Some Charms are written for a specific mechanical purpose, but this isn't one of them.
          Fair enough.

          Though I suppose there IS a use for someone who's already a thoroughly unpleasant person. If they treat their Shadow Mind as their default self from that point forward, they can go on being a thoroughly unpleasant person more effectively, and whenever they think they might be faced with someone who could influence them in a way they don't like, they can switch back to their normal mind and use it as a sacrificial lamb, and afterwards switch back to the Shadow Mind they prefer having.


          What about the idea of an upgrade to Dark Premise Duality which allows you to jump into or out of your Shadow Mind for the duration of a Relentless Lunar Fury or Deadly Beastman Transformation?



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          • Originally posted by Epee102 View Post


            So to be clear, if I hit a Lunar with Heaven's Thunder Hammer, this charm pervents the knock back...but not the fall damage the charm inflicts?
            If being moved is the direct cause of the damage, like Heaven Thunder Hammer, or being thrown off a cliff, you don't take the damage, because you didn't move. But if it's just something that happens in addition to it, like a slam attack, or the normal damage roll of an attack enhanced by Heaven Thunder Hammer, that still goes through.


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            • Originally posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
              What about the idea of an upgrade to Dark Premise Duality which allows you to jump into or out of your Shadow Mind for the duration of a Relentless Lunar Fury or Deadly Beastman Transformation?
              Some kind of faster activation is definitely possible.


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              • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                All it does is stop you from being forcibly moved. Everything else, including damage, happens normally.

                So movement here means movement between range bands specifically (and possibly being knocked prone?), not actions that move you narratively like slamming you into the ground or a wall within close range? So something like Shockwave Technique would still work as long as the targets are within close range?
                Last edited by limaxophobiac; 10-02-2019, 11:50 AM.

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                • What are the limits of Speed the Wheel?

                  -Can you speed up only external organizations or also your own?
                  -Is it only for actual organizations or can any group engaging in organized labour benefit?
                  -Is it only for cutting through "red tape" like in the 1000 years waiting list example, or does it also speed up actual work i.e. a project to build a house or chop down trees for lumber?
                  -At the most extreme, can a high Essence Solar essentially organize the creation, construction, provisioning, recruitment and training of an entire navy so that it all gets done "in minutes"?
                  Last edited by Epitome; 10-03-2019, 07:38 PM.

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                  • Adding to that, Solar power... what is the limit? A solar can make something that takes years, take months or days. So he can speed up actions as well as make them absurdly effective beyond what is possible.

                    If a solar was to run famine relief, and the amount of food isn't enough to feed the population, can he use his peerless excellence to feed more people can be possible, bureaucrac supernal enhancing the 'relieve famine' action?

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                    • Originally posted by limaxophobiac View Post


                      So movement here means movement between range bands specifically (and possibly being knocked prone?), not actions that move you narratively like slamming you into the ground or a wall within close range? So something like Shockwave Technique would still work as long as the targets are within close range?
                      You can't be moved in a mechanically meaningful way (changing range bands, knocked prone), and you have ample justification to stunt not being moved narratively. A slam can damage you, but the damage is going to come more from your foe twisting your limbs beyond the endurance of your muscle and bone as he futilely tries to make you budge rather than bashing you into a wall.


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                      • Originally posted by Epitome View Post
                        What are the limits of Speed the Wheel?

                        -Can you speed up only external organizations or also your own?
                        You don't have to lead the the organization, although you do have to be in a position to engage with it.

                        -Is it only for actual organizations or can any group engaging in organized labour benefit?
                        That strikes me as an illusory difference. You don't need a formal name or Articles of Incorporation to benefit.

                        -Is it only for cutting through "red tape" like in the 1000 years waiting list example, or does it also speed up actual work i.e. a project to build a house or chop down trees for lumber?
                        -At the most extreme, can a high Essence Solar essentially organize the creation, construction, provisioning, recruitment and training of an entire navy so that it all gets done "in minutes"?
                        It won't accelerate non-bureaucratic actions, like chopping down trees or crafting a ship. It could accelerate things like importing timber or convincing another nation to sell pre-existing ships to you.


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                        • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                          Adding to that, Solar power... what is the limit?
                          That question is so open-ended that it can't really be meaningfully answered.


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                          • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                            That question is so open-ended that it can't really be meaningfully answered.
                            It has to do with the famine question. Solars can make organisations carry out goals that take years into weeks or months. Solars can swing a sword so hard that they can wreck a mountain. Solars can heal so well a patient on the brink of death can get back to his feet within a day.

                            So let's say there's 100 people. The solar has 80 units of food. 1 person consumes 1 unit of food. So no matter what, no matter how well distributed, no matter how efficiently done... 20 people are going to go hungry.

                            A solar can be so good at swording he can conjure a sword out of thin air. A solar can be so good at running he can leap over running. A solar can be so good at crafting he can give a word, and iron ore will leap into the air to wring itself into steel.

                            Can a solar be so good at organising and at a famine relief, that he can magic resources out of thin air, or at least stretch resources and effectiveness beyond what is effectively possible? Can he, in effect, feed 100 people with only enough food to feed 80 people, on the basis of his skill in organising and coordination?

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                            • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                              It has to do with the famine question. Solars can make organisations carry out goals that take years into weeks or months. Solars can swing a sword so hard that they can wreck a mountain. Solars can heal so well a patient on the brink of death can get back to his feet within a day.

                              So let's say there's 100 people. The solar has 80 units of food. 1 person consumes 1 unit of food. So no matter what, no matter how well distributed, no matter how efficiently done... 20 people are going to go hungry.

                              A solar can be so good at swording he can conjure a sword out of thin air. A solar can be so good at running he can leap over running. A solar can be so good at crafting he can give a word, and iron ore will leap into the air to wring itself into steel.

                              Can a solar be so good at organising and at a famine relief, that he can magic resources out of thin air, or at least stretch resources and effectiveness beyond what is effectively possible? Can he, in effect, feed 100 people with only enough food to feed 80 people, on the basis of his skill in organising and coordination?
                              That doesn't seem like something that could make sense as an expression of Bureaucracy. The Solar bureaucrat might solve a famine by employing superhuman negotiations and logistics skills to import and distribute food at blistering fast speed. Other possibilities include a Solar master of Survival being able to hunt or forage food in the most inhospitable of environments, a Solar performer sustaining his people with a song that nourishes the body, or a Solar sorcerer conjuring up a tree laden with otherworldly fruits, but those examples wouldn't make sense in Bureaucracy.


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                              • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                                That doesn't seem like something that could make sense as an expression of Bureaucracy. The Solar bureaucrat might solve a famine by employing superhuman negotiations and logistics skills to import and distribute food at blistering fast speed. Other possibilities include a Solar master of Survival being able to hunt or forage food in the most inhospitable of environments, a Solar performer sustaining his people with a song that nourishes the body, or a Solar sorcerer conjuring up a tree laden with otherworldly fruits, but those examples wouldn't make sense in Bureaucracy.
                                Wait a minute. A song that nourishes the body?

                                You mean, drawing on old thematic themes, right?

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