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  • Lunar Charms Feedback

    Overall I love the new Lunars. So much so that I've sat down to analyse every E1 charm they have, to make it easier to make characters. (Still working on some of the trees, I'll update this as I finish those.)

    I did, however, find a few unfortunate duds. Charms that were less efficient than an excellency, enabled some action that was already possible, were locked behind misfitting or too numerous prerequisites, or were just too specialised to be worth the charm purchase. A friend of mine mentioned that the devs were A) really cool and B) open to feedback and suggested I write up the duds I came across and put them up on the forum, in case no one else has pointed them out.

    As a reminder my analysis is focused on chargen, which means essence 1 and a somewhat limited number of charms. I'm also not terribly familiar with the subsystems for mass combat, so my commentary there is limited.

    --------------------------------------

    First, about chargen itself. The lack of favoured abilities means that ability purchases feel overly clunky, eating through my BP waaaayyyyy too fast for my liking. It feels like there should be something in here to help with abilities, similar to the way Solars get a discount on tertiary attributes. I do like that the Lunar charm trees are a bit better populated at E1 than Solar ones, since Lunars lack the option to zoom off into the depths of their trees via supernal abilities.

    --------------------------------------

    STRENGTH

    Ferocious Biting Tooth - Not terribly appealing at Essence 1, which is a problem as the prerequisite for a decent number of the strength-based combat charms. Probably shouldn't scale so hard with essence as such a basic charm.

    Snarling Hound Strife - Also has the problem of scaling a bit too hard with Essence for an E1 charm. 4m to subtract 1 success isn't great (at high essence there might not be enough 1s to reach the cap).

    Mangling Grasp Might - Very inefficient when used for withering attacks. 6m for 1 die isn't great on decisive attacks either, even if there's normally no other way to boost decisive damage.

    Bounding Bharal Technique - A bit minor of a benefit, even if it is more efficient than an excellency. On a side note, is that a mario/donkey kong reference?

    --------------------------------------

    DEXTERITY

    Finding the Needle's Eye - Less effective than an excellency on average, unless the opponent is using a medium weapon.

    Striking Mospid Method - Probably the *worst* offender when it comes to being less effective than an excellency. This is 3m to reroll a *single* die, with a set order so you can't even hope to use it to get rid of 1s when interacting with enemy charms. It does pull ahead of an excellency at Essence 4, but that's not something a lot of players are going to reach.

    Foe-Driving Attack - Not a bad charm, but I do note there's a number of dex charm based around onslaught penalties... all at the end of a different tree. If they're intended to work together, perhaps they should be part of the same tree of charms?

    Needle-Quill Technique and Bombardier Spittle Alchemy - Definitely a cool idea, though I have to question the utility of spending a charm for infinite ammo in a game where you don't usually track ammunition. The Solar equivalent both doesn't cost motes and has a mechanical benefit. It also works just fine with flame weapons (which are the most likely weapons to pair this sort of effect with). I'd combine the two charms, personally.

    Stinging Ichneumon Scourge - 2m to ensure there's a -1 penalty next turn is about as efficient as an excellency. It's better at E2, when fighting in groups or when used with decisive attacks, but perhaps it should be made (higher of Essence or 3) like a lot of other charms are?

    Cunning Beast-Warrior Reflexes - Reducing the penalties for attacking whilst performing other actions is neat, but probably shouldn't be used as a prerequisite for purely combat-focused charms.

    Wasp Sting Blur - Decent, but like Foe-Driving Attack I can't help but feel this should be in the same tree as the other onslaught-affecting charms.

    Bending Before the Storm - I'd like to compare this charm to Dipping Swallow Defence, which costs the same but has no prerequisites, entirely negates all penalties without any conditions and throws in the main effect of the previous charm on top of that. (And that's not mentioning Bulwark Stance, which shares this charm's position in their respective trees but, again, negates all penalties and has an additional effect on top, though trading higher cost for a turn-long duration.)

    Wind-Dancing Method - Something that should be kept in mind for this charm is that all lunars have easy access to flight without spending a single charm, and with certain charms can acquire flight even when in human shape. So slowing a fall and gliding a little bit isn't terribly useful. Moving one range band for free *is*, but that should probably be the primary focus of a charm and probably not require that the character get themselves into the air first (melee based characters can't use it because their opponents are on the ground, whilst flying ranged characters are already mostly safe from melee without the free movement).

    Instinct-Driven Beast Movement - 2m for 1 success is the same efficiency as an excellency. Getting a point of initiative if you win an opposed roll is a nice benefit, but this charm is still faced with the efficiency problem.

    Spider-Climbing Attitude - A turn duration restricts it to use in combat, while the prequisite of IDBM feels unrelated and mostly just makes it more of a pain to take. As this in effect that Lunars get easy access to via shapeshifting, this charm feels far too restricted for what it does.

    Wounded Beast Flight - Having to retreat whilst injured isn't a circumstance most players are going to plan on, and keying both effects off wound penalties renders the charm useless for more tactical retreats.

    Shifting Octopus Trick - When escaping grapples or magical restraints, this charm is less than or as efficient as an excellency. Does the roll boost apply when escaping mundane restraints as well as magical ones?

    Quicksilver Armour Approach - The only issue here is the prerequisite. Most characters who wearing serious armour aren't going to be terribly concerned in escaping restraints. Not sure why the repurchase is Essence 2 either, it doesn't seem like an Essence 2 effect.

    Skulking Rat Spirit - Again hits the issue of efficiency when compared to an excellency.

    Snake-Finger Style - 5m for double 9s is *very* inefficient compared to an excellency, and not needing tools isn't enough of a benefit to compensate.

    --------------------------------------

    STAMINA

    Impenetrable Beast-Armour - Less efficient than the excellency when adding soak until Essence 4+. Still good for the Hardness though.

    Moonsilver Thew Exertion - Less efficient than an excellency unless your stamina is 5+.

    Disease Purging Essence - Only as efficient as an excellency until essence 4+.

    Scorpion-and-Toad Absolution - Less efficient than an excellency most of the time.

    Behemoth's Inhalation Prana - Very cool, but so niche I can't see myself ever taking this.

    Blood-and-Tear Elixir Cultivation - Less effecient than an excellency. A shame, because the charm is really cool.

    --------------------------------------

    CHARISMA

    Poised Lion Attitude - Should probably list some examples of what reflexive influence rolls can be used to do. It's a good effect, but not every player is going to figure out what it can be used for.

    Beast-King Dictates - 4m to reroll 3 dice is less efficient than using an excellency to just buy more dice. Whilst it does overtake the excellency slightly at essence 5, that's a long ways off. Even the protean benefit doesn't bring its efficiency up unless you have maxed out dice pools and full excellency use.

    Guiding the Flock - 1m for double 9s is at least more efficient than an excellency, though it's a fairly small effect with restricted applicability. I can't help but feel this should either be more broadly applicable or have a greater effect when it does apply.

    Herd-Strengthening Invocation - I'm not sure about this charm's use with customs your character has a negative intimacy for. Would I really want to encourage people to adhere to that custom? Especially since they gain only the positive aspects of the intimacy and can't have it exploited against them.

    Charismatic Lunar Trick - Less efficient than an excellency (unless you're already at 20 dice, or channeling a defining intimacy), and less applicable too.

    Rapture of the Nightingale - No more efficient than an excellency, and "targeting guile after successfully Inspiring an emotion" isn't a particularly broad use case either. For something this specific I'd expect a more interesting payoff than -2 Guile.

    Crowd-Inciting Fervor - At the very least the charm needs advice for the ST on how to handle it. Should a crowd all choose the same target, or does everyone just pick their own personal pet peeve to rail against? Should they be chosen based on context or each character's pre-existing biases? Can the Lunar's actions influence the target of the rage, or is it random? Are they compelled to act on those intimacies, or does everyone just go home to grumble (it is, after all, only a minor intimacy)?

    Pack Leader Attitude - +3 dice for 2m is more efficient than an excellency, but I'd really prefer to be getting more than a single dice over an excellency for a charm purchase. Re-rolling 1s helps, but that's not always going to apply.

    Fearless Beast-Warrior Exhortion - The baseline effect is no more effective than an excellency. Acquiring a battlegroup with Might isn't something that should be required to make this charm worth using. It either needs a stronger baseline effect or to double-down on boosting battlegroups with Might.

    --------------------------------------

    MANIPULATION

    I'll bring up one of the holes in the manipulation charmset here, the lack of a generalised roll boosting charm. Glib Tongue Technique and Heart-Snaring Deception may have been intended to take this role, but those charms are limited to instill actions. There's a bit of a lack of Lunar charms involving persuade, bargain or inspire in general, honestly.

    Fox-Tailed Trickster's Grace - 'Breaking customs' feels like something that may or may not come up in games, depending on the ST. I feel that without this charm, players would just either not care about the concequences of violating customs or simply avoid doing so - barring some culture with particularly obnoxious customs, which is a game-dependant. It could really use some sort of more active effect that's useful when there aren't obnoxious customs one might want to break without social consequence, perhaps either boosting efforts to erode those customs or integrating Laughing Raccoon Audacity into the base charm? Alternatively, expanding the scope of its effect to cover negative social consequences from actions not rooted in local customs.

    Forsaking-the-Blood Posture and Tarnished Silver Imprecation - This is another fairly specific effect, and while players can probably find ways to utilise it the pay off is typically not going to be worth both the effort to arrange circumstances for it to apply and the charm purchase(s).

    Generosity of the Cuckoo - This is a very specific gimmick, and while conceptually cool I again wonder if it would be consistently worth the time and effort to set it up and the charm purchase to enable it.

    The Shadow Who Wasn't There and Ever-Present Shadow Insinuation - Decent charms, though I do wonder about the utility of having two charms that accomplish effectively the same goal (especially TSWWT, which can probably be covered with a decent persuade roll in the few cases where it might be useful). Perhaps they could be combined?

    Wayward Pariah Affliction - Another pretty specific effect that seems like it's just giving mechanics to the effects of using an Instill roll to give someone an intimacy of distrust. It's also buried under four different prerequisite charms, probably a bit much.

    Glib Tongue Technique and Heart-Snaring Deception - While there's definitely room for charms that let you get away with telling implausible lies, the restriction to instill rolls feels off - what if my implausible lie is mechanically a persuade, bargain, threaten or inspire action?
    Beyond that, there's the issue of cost/efficiency. 4m is not worth it for double 9s and potentially cancelling a point of penalty - the excellency is more mote efficient unless you've already got 10+ dice (or 20+ if there's no implausibility penalty to cancel).

    Moonlight-on-Mist Puzzle and Night Sky Burial - Concealing evidence (and tracks) is a fairly specific task. I'm not sure this is enough conceptual space to fit in two charms - I can see it being useful for enough concepts to be worth having, but not many are going to be invested enough to purchase NSB.

    Gloaming Auspice Trickery - Another highly specific charm, albeit with a stong mechanical effect. I do question whether it couldn't be widened a bit to leave it open for other forms of sleight of hand.

    Falling Leaf Distraction - Itself a decent charm, my only issue is the two prerequisites that have little to do with this one's effects. Both trickster archetypes and appearance focused characters might want this, but few will also want to take charms for concealing evidence and cheating at gambling. The wording/mechanics could also be tightened up/simplified a bit.

    Second Shadow Forgery - You could replicate this with an excellency and a Manipulation+Craft/Larceny/Linuistics roll, apart from it setting the difficulty to fecognise the fake instead of using the Lunar's roll. It does fail to specify how long this takes and is listed as an Instant charm, so you could rules lawyer that it does have the benefit of creating the fake as an instant action - it should probably be called out if this is an intended benefit. I can see a use for a forgery-creating charm in the lunar toolbox, but this one needs some work. I'd also suggest it not have a prerequisite, to make it more accessible to craft or disguise focused Lunars who might find it useful, once it has a better effect.

    Shifting Silver Masquerade - This is an overly specific circumstantial charm, and while Lunars are more likely to be using disguises it's still a very specific effect. This could probably be combined with some of the *other* overly specific disguise effects.

    Many-Voiced Mockingbird Attitude and Mirror-Hand Stroke - Such as these two. Copying someone's handwriting should *not* be it's own charm. These should probably be combined into a general "copying mannerisms" charm, for those who want to really double down on their impersonation.

    --------------------------------------

    APPEARANCE

    Appearance is mostly fine, albeit it could probably use a social charm or two outside of the seduce/threaten paradigm. We also see a recurring issue (also found in other social attriubutes) where lots of charms will bolster instill rolls to create intimacies, but few will do anything to help build more than a minor intimacy and even less will do anything to help exploit those intimacies via other sorts of social actions such as persuade.

    Feral Smile Tactic and Seductive Moonlight Dream - Double 9s for 3m is usually less efficient than buying three dice with an excellency.

    Terrifying Bestial Visage - Does the "can't initiate hostilities" effect apply if a character has a prexisting tie of fear towards the lunar?

    Alluring Scent Technique - Changing the context of intimacies of minor utility, and the minor intimacies of the 'no ties' effect feels fairly weak when it's all you get on characters who already have positive ties.

    Attention Demanding Presence - Possibly a bit too much overlap with Falling Leaf Distraction.

    Subtle Silver Declaration - Feels like paying a charm to cancel out a drawback only lunars get. Which it is, but it doesn't feel very fufilling. It should probably have some sort of additional effect outside of hiding the Tell. Perhaps by merging it with Moon's Hidden face?

    Shifting Penumbra Stance - Not being able to activate this charm until you've built up some anima does reduce its utility, and I'm fairly iffy about its use when you've already got really good disguises and taken the charm to hide your one identifying feature.

    Glorious Battle Presence - Technically more efficient than an excellency, but not by much.

    Wolf Devours Shepherd and Panicked Herd Incitement - Have the unfortunate issue of being fairly inefficient unless fighting opponents with low resolve (who are less likely to be threatening in the first place). Still very cool charms, but could use a second look at their costs.

    --------------------------------------

    PERCEPTION

    Ever-Wary Fox Technique - Has the issue of efficiency versus excellency if used whilst awake, makign it's main value in being able to detect danger whilst asleep. Which is a bit niche for an effect that serves as the prerequisite for a lot of other sensory charms.

    Distant Thunder Anticipation - Predicting the weather with a Perception + Survival roll is something you can (or at least should be able to) do without a charm. The essence 2 effect is highly specific, considering there's Wits charms that could be used to provide the same effect, but fine as a side perk.

    Moonlit Sentinel Vigilance - Generally speaking I've yet to see a game where you roll seperately for each individual enemy sneaking up on you. It's usually one roll versus all of them, making this charm fairly pointless.

    Worry the Bone - While it does more than just boost the roll, 3 dice for 5m is still a lot worse than an excellency and the circumstance the charm applies in is extremely niche.

    Observed Prey Instinct - On average a Perception+Awareness roll is going to be lower than an attack roll, making this charm hard to get off against opponents of your caliber.

    Stricken Calf Sense - This is a *very* specific roll and all this charm does is boost the numbers (and the efficiency isn't great when compared to an excellency). Bearing in mind that diagnosis rolls aren't typically high enough to require more than an excellency, this charm feels fairly useless. It should probably also be with the other medical charms in intelligence (diagnosis can be perception or intelligence) unless it does something more than just boost the numbers on a diagnosis roll.

    Spider-Amid-Roses Discernment - Double 8s for 5m is less efficient than an excellency usually, and this charm is too narrow in focus to just add numbers to the roll.

    Prey's Scent Discernment - Remembering what someone smells like is something you can do without a charm. While this does remove the edge case of the ST asking you to roll to remember... it only lasts for one day.

    Heightened Sense Method - Only better than an excellency when there's at least a -3 penalty to the roll. Probably needs to be more explicit in its effects that just reducing penalties.

    Echo-Drinking Awareness - The charm itself acknowledges that lunars can get echolocation via shapeshifting/mutations. The only advantage is that it doesn't inherantly involve any physical change, and that's rarely going to be enough reason to purchase this charm for a character who wants echolocation.

    Unwavering Predator's Eye - 3m for double 9s is usually worse than an excellency.

    Wolf-Eye Advantage - Also less efficient than an excellency most of the time.

    Understanding the Prey - Less efficient than an excellency and does nothing but provide a numerical boost

    Forked Tongue Discernment - Not sure that this charm should be building off of a resolve-boosting one. Very good charm otherwise!

    Understanding the Herd - This isn't something you need a charm to do. Profile Character/Read Intentions can already be used to get this sort of information.

    Exquisite Heart's Taste - Unless the target has a defining intimacy that would apply, this is no more efficient than an excellency.

    Soul-Piercing Predator Gaze - A cool charm, but having EHT as a prerequisite doesn't match and just inflates the prequisite count.

    Shadow Hunter Insight - Also has issues with efficiency in comparison to an excellency.

    Untangling the Web - Doesn't compare well against an excellency unless at Perception 5 (and even then, probably not worth the charm). The accelerated reading speed is pretty niche, and feels more like a solar charm thing.

    --------------------------------------

    INTELLIGENCE

    Intelligence is fine (or I'm just biased as a No Moon fan ;p). I love the way the different trees interweave. Getting free crafting points for making lore checks etc.

    It does feel like there needs to be a few more high-end craft charms to boost rolls, though it might be that Lunars not really being able to get into the higher end crafting projects is intentional.

    --------------------------------------

    WITS

    Resisting the Lure of Madness - Has minor efficiency issues at E1.

    True-to-the-Pack Dedication - 5m for 1 die, scaling up to 5m for 3 dice at E3+. That's terrible in comparion to an excellency. The non-charm nature of the bonus and the extra benefit if you fail do indicate that this is more intended for big, important rolls where excellencies have alreayd been maxed rather than casual use. The efficiency is still terrible, and the effect fairly weak at E1 (no one likes having your 5m charm fail to do anything half the time). The dice pool should probably not be limited by essence.

    --------------------------------------

    Wow, that's a lot more charms I found to say something bad about than I first thought. Sorry for the wall of text.
    Last edited by Taejix; 03-15-2019, 01:01 AM.

  • #2
    Will look closer at the charms thoughts later, but I will say with experience making a couple Lunars with these rules, it feels like the general intent is to have lower Abilities but absurd Attributes. I walked away with Strength, Dex, and Charisma all at 5s, plus Stamina and Appearance at 4, so while Abilities will be lower, you'll still have really good dice pools.

    Comment


    • #3
      Just re finding the needles eye, it’s non-charm Dice that it’s granting— which is valuable, and the likelyhood of you rolling More than 3 1s is slim to none unless your dicepool is 30+ (generally they will account for 10% of the dice) That’s before the other effects. They do need to be weaker than solars and that charm in particular is quite good. I think in the case of some of the dexterity charms you’re underestimating their utility.

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't forget that a lot of the reroll x and double x charms aren't about fighting for efficiency with an excellency, they're about breaking the dice cap. While it is certainly nice if they're efficient, that's not their typical purpose.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JiveX View Post
          Just re finding the needles eye, it’s non-charm Dice that it’s granting— which is valuable, and the likelyhood of you rolling More than 3 1s is slim to none unless your dicepool is 30+ (generally they will account for 10% of the dice) That’s before the other effects. They do need to be weaker than solars and that charm in particular is quite good. I think in the case of some of the dexterity charms you’re underestimating their utility.
          If you attack as a giant octopus than it's entirely way more effective than an excellency as it's -2 defense points which is honestly better than 2 non-charm successes.

          Comment


          • #6
            I’m agreeing that it’s a good charm epimetheus

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JiveX View Post
              I’m agreeing that it’s a good charm epimetheus
              I understand i just wanted to elaborate. Honestly IMO because you'll never get that unlucky it's probably better than the solar version of that charm which just gives one non-charm success.

              Comment


              • #8
                Rerolling 1s is usually the equivalent of adding 1-2 non-charm dice, depending on dice pool (one in ten dice is a 1, rerolling them is basically the same as rolling another die, most attack pools are around 12-16 dice before excellencies). Hence my statement that FtNE, at 3m, is less efficient than an excellency unless the opponent has a medium weapon (and thus you have something to negate). Technically it's also better at range, where cover is more likely to be a thing (and reading the previews has me wanting to play a lunar archer if I get a chance).

                It's a good charm and I like it, but math wise it probably costs a mote more than it should.

                Now, if most charms are designed around 'maxed dice pool plus full excellency' then most of the charms I've noted as being less efficient than an excellency are fine (and I'll disagree with that design decision but whatever). But that wasn't the impression I got from the core book and it certainly makes most of them less usable and, I think, less fun to take knowing that the baseline excellency is better than what you just spent exp on. Looking at other published charms they tend to be as good or better than an excellency for their mote cost, and if higher dice pools or a circumstantial bonus make them better then that's the perk of actually having invested in the charm.
                Last edited by Taejix; 03-15-2019, 12:59 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Surely the corebook charms are the same, many are designed to be used on top of excellencies. Something like doubling 9s or rolling an extra dice for each 10 (which Solar Craft charges 6 motes for! 6! And it's badly written too) are obviously better with 20 dice than 10.

                  There are of course, other Solar charms that just add dice for less. I dislike most of those charms.

                  Also, on character creation; why on earth are you buying Ability dots? What are you playing, a Solar? 😀
                  That's like a Solar buying 4 dots of attributes rather than 15 dots of abilities.

                  As a Lunar, most of your freebies are for attributes. For a mere 9 freebies, you can have primary attributes of 5/5/5. And for your other 6, secondary attributes of 4/4/4 (or 3/4/5).

                  I could understand that, if there's one Ability you expect to roll a lot, you might want to spend 4 freebies to get it to 5. Say, Brawl for a combat character, or Occult for a sorcerer.
                  So, let us say we're making a raging combat monster.
                  4 Points to get Brawl 5, 9 to get Strength 5, Dex 5 and Stamina 5, and then 2 to get Willpower 6 or something.

                  That's what I spent mine on, anyway (Well, Snake Style, rather than Brawl).
                  Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 03-15-2019, 10:24 AM.


                  My characters:
                  Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                  Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If +3 and reroll-1s for 2m isn’t good enough for you I really don’t know what to say.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Being less efficient than an excellency is allowed for stuff that can stack with it. The only problem is when the excellency renders it redundant.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Also Impenetrable Beast-Armor grants higher of essence or 3 soak, so it's exactly as efficient as an excellency and isn't subject to the limits on it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Also, it stacks with the Stamina excellency, which is the key thing.

                          Originally posted by Taejix
                          It does feel like there needs to be a few more high-end craft charms to boost rolls, though it might be that Lunars not really being able to get into the higher end crafting projects is intentional.
                          I thought this when I first read it (after all, Solars have way more success-boosting charms), but autXautY crunched the numbers, and they found that, with maxed pools and a 1-pt stunt:

                          With no charms: 99.77% chance of crafting a 2-dot artifact, 57.01% chance of 3-dot, .19% chance of 4-dot
                          With Wonder-Weaving Art: 95.05% chance of 3-dot, 15.13% chance of 4-dot, .02% chance of 5-dot
                          With Wonder-Weaving Artx2 and Silver Crucible Refinement (essence 2): 99.98% chance of 3-dot, 87.2% chance of 4-dot, 12.9% chance of 5-dot
                          With Wonder-Weaving Artx2 and Silver Crucible Refinement (essence 3): 99.99% chance of 3-dot, 93.27% chance of 4-dot, 22.92% chance of 5-dot
                          With Wonder-Weaving Artx3 and Silver Crucible Refinement (essence 4): 99.86% chance of 4-dot, 84.39% chance of 5-dot:
                          With Wonder-Weaving Artx3, Silver Crucible Refinement (essence 5), and Unbound Demiurge's Dream: 99.9% for a 5-dot, 0.15% chance of NA.

                          So, N/As are virtually impossible, even with 5 power charms (whereas they're pretty plausible for a Solar with all the Power charms). But everything else is eminently doable.

                          And that's okay with me; I'm happy for Lunars to be rubbish at making N/As, because N/As represent the heights of 1st Age magical artifice. No-one can make Thousand-Forged Dragons anymore. That's something that was lost with the Solars.


                          My characters:
                          Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                          Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Scottsman View Post
                            Will look closer at the charms thoughts later, but I will say with experience making a couple Lunars with these rules, it feels like the general intent is to have lower Abilities but absurd Attributes. I walked away with Strength, Dex, and Charisma all at 5s, plus Stamina and Appearance at 4, so while Abilities will be lower, you'll still have really good dice pools.
                            My Lunar's Strength, Dex, Stamina, Perception and Intelligence were all, IIRC, at 5 at character creation.

                            Now she has 460xp. And only two abilities at 4+ (Snake Style and Medicine).

                            But with a small stunt and some motes I can get up to 17 dice on most rolls (I have excellencies on 88% of rolls; how many Solars have 22 excellencies? I bet very few), even with 0 dots in an ability. I just don't need Ability dots that much.
                            Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 03-15-2019, 10:37 AM.


                            My characters:
                            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                              Also, on character creation; why on earth are you buying Ability dots? What are you playing, a Solar? 😀
                              Hey, do you presume you know best what the player should spend the points on?
                              Okay, we're kidding. However...

                              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                              As a Lunar, most of your freebies are for attributes. For a mere 9 freebies, you can have primary attributes of 5/5/5.
                              Or you could start with 5/5/2 and get to 5/5/5 for 27 (Lunar) experience.
                              And for 8 bp, you could get two Abilities from 3 to 5, which would be 28 experience. So even for a Lunar, investing bonus points in Abilities is both mechanically better, and also the easy way to be efficient without thinking too much. It's just even more so for Solars or DB.

                              And then, in the long run the most efficient use of Lunar bp (aside from Merits, which is its own can of worms) is Willpower 10. And you still can get Brawl 5, too. But does anyone go Willpower 10?

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