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  • Climate of Creation

    Something I've always kinda had a difficulty with is figuring out what exactly the climate of each region is like in Creation, so I was wondering if anyone out there has made something like a climate map, or has some solid guidelines.

    My kinda gut reaction is the southern border regions being roughly equivalent to the equator and the northern border being polar, but that still leaves a lot of room to figure it temperate, subtropical, etc areas


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  • #2
    Each pole exemplifies it's element so the closer you get to that pole the more of that you get. It's hotter in the South closer to the pole of Fire. It's colder in the North, closer to the pole of Air. It ranges north to south between that. West and East have more to do with content that temperature: more water in the West and more Forests to the East. So coastal areas are likely to be more temperate and just get more extreme as you go north or south.

    The exemption is the Blessed Isle which is built as "Creation in miniature" in 3e. In past editions it was "temperate everywhere" but now you'll get hot tropics on the south coast and colder climbs to the north. Swamps to the west and good farmland and woods to the east.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by The Unsung Hero View Post
      Each pole exemplifies it's element so the closer you get to that pole the more of that you get. It's hotter in the South closer to the pole of Fire. It's colder in the North, closer to the pole of Air. It ranges north to south between that. West and East have more to do with content that temperature: more water in the West and more Forests to the East. So coastal areas are likely to be more temperate and just get more extreme as you go north or south.

      The exemption is the Blessed Isle which is built as "Creation in miniature" in 3e. In past editions it was "temperate everywhere" but now you'll get hot tropics on the south coast and colder climbs to the north. Swamps to the west and good farmland and woods to the east.
      I'm perfectly comfortable with the broad strokes of the poles and such, where I trip up is more on the local scale. Take The scavenger lands, for example. Both Nexus and Thorns are in the same "region", so do they have the same general climate? Or is it more like comparing Minnesota to Texas?

      Alternatively, where exactly does "typically temperate but with longer, really nasty winters" end and "vast expanses of frozen tundra" begin when going north?


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      • #4
        Originally posted by SamuraiMujuru View Post
        My kinda gut reaction is the southern border regions being roughly equivalent to the equator
        Nah, way hotter than that.

        Earth's climate is weird. The hottest countries in the world aren't on the equator like you'd assume. The hottest city in the world is Kuwait city. The hottest average temperature of a country is Sudan. Places like Equatorial Guinea, Indonesia, Kenya, Colombia, Brazil... yeah, they're very hot, but nowhere near the worst.

        I had a friend who lived in Oman, which is pretty far from the equator. If he wanted to visit his neighbour, he'd drive. For like a minute. Because driving out of his garage and around to his neighbour's garage in an air-conditioned car was bearable, while walking for 1-2 minutes to his neighbour's door would be unbearable.

        Whereas when I was in Kenya, yeah, it was really hot... but not, like, totally unbearable. Just hot. I actually remember the day I stood on the equator, it was probably about 30c?

        Winters where I live now reach a low of about, what, -1c? Whereas I used to live in a city far south of my hometown, where winters reached -37c. When celsius and farhenheit are the same, you know it's too cold. I used to get frozen eyelashes, frozen beard, frozen eyebrows... That'll never happen in the UK, but it's much further north here.
        Also, while the winter was bitterly cold, it was pretty dry. A dry winter is just mind-blowing for a Brit. Here, it's very simple; summer is (relatively) hot and dry, winter is cold and wet. Yet there are other places in the world where those don't go together.


        Creation's climate is more simple (though I guess you'll still get issues like more extreme climates further from the sea, its colder in the mountains, etc).

        The further north you go, the colder it is.
        The further south you go, the hotter it is.

        The slight oddity is the south is dry, and the west is wet, not the north. So the wettest parts of the world and the dryest aren't opposite each other. So, say, the north-west is brutally cold, but it's probably fairly average in terms of wet/dry.

        (Presumably the Primordials did this because fertile land needs a balance of hot and dry)

        But still, I think generally it changes gradually.


        So basically you end up with:
        North - Cold and windy
        North-West - Cold and Wet
        West - Wet
        South-West - Hot, weather varies between a dry season and a monsoon season
        South - Hot and Dry
        South-East - Hot
        East - Temperate, lots of plants
        North-East - Cold
        Centre - Temperate, no extreme weather, great soil

        And that's partly why the Centre and East have the most fertile land and are the best places to live.


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        • #5
          Climate in Creation is definitely going to be a bit trickier than on Earth. For one thing, there's effectively two heat sources - the Sun emits heat and all that, as it does on Earth, but also, the Elemental Pole of Fire pushes heat northwards as it ascends in the cycle of the poles. Another complicating factor is the Sun's course through the sky does actually move over the course of the year - it's further north in summer, and further south in winter.

          I think the combination of these factors is going to mean that the North has colder winters but warmer summers than equivalent areas on Earth, while the South will generally have very hot summers, but milder winters.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by SamuraiMujuru View Post

            I'm perfectly comfortable with the broad strokes of the poles and such, where I trip up is more on the local scale. Take The scavenger lands, for example. Both Nexus and Thorns are in the same "region", so do they have the same general climate? Or is it more like comparing Minnesota to Texas?

            Minnesota's much further north than Texas.

            Nexus and Thorns are about the same.

            Nexus should be more woody. Of course, they've chopped it all down, but maybe there's some woods nearby. It's probably not a very noticeable difference though.
            Thorns is by the coast, so probably has more moderate weather.

            I shouldn't think they will be extremely different though.

            Alternatively, where exactly does "typically temperate but with longer, really nasty winters" end
            The southern coast of the White Sea.

            and "vast expanses of frozen tundra" begin when going north?
            A bit north of the northern coast of the White Sea.

            If you look at the map, I think you can essentially tell from the way it's coloured.

            http://armrha.org/exaltedmap/


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
              Another complicating factor is the Sun's course through the sky does actually move over the course of the year - it's further north in summer, and further south in winter.
              Does it? I've always wondered, but never got an answer. Does it say that somewhere in the books?

              I think the combination of these factors is going to mean that the North has colder winters but warmer summers than equivalent areas on Earth, while the South will generally have very hot summers, but milder winters.
              I don't see why the North would have more extreme weather than places like Russia and Canada do in real life.


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              • #8
                Incidentally, this is a good thread. It's the kind of world-building stuff people generally forget about. And it makes a change from the normal charm comparison or which Exalt type is best. Good work SamuraiMujuru.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post


                  Minnesota's much further north than Texas.

                  Nexus and Thorns are about the same.

                  Nexus should be more woody. Of course, they've chopped it all down, but maybe there's some woods nearby. It's probably not a very noticeable difference though.
                  Thorns is by the coast, so probably has more moderate weather.

                  I shouldn't think they will be extremely different though.


                  The southern coast of the White Sea.


                  A bit north of the northern coast of the White Sea.

                  If you look at the map, I think you can essentially tell from the way it's coloured.

                  http://armrha.org/exaltedmap/
                  Yeah, the map helps, but especially in this edition it's more, I dunno, thematic than literal, and it also doesn't address things like seasons and such (icehome has proper summers if memory serves, but is solid white on the map. Rubylak is right across from where the white really begins, but isn't described as being overly cold.)

                  Of course, you do have specific areas that futz with things (like Iscomay and its Oma Valley) but I'm looking for broader than cities/countries but more specific than region/pole.

                  Though Thorns isn't as far south as I was thinking it was (it's more Minnesota to Missouri. Which is still a noticeable difference, but less extreme.)
                  Last edited by SamuraiMujuru; 03-22-2019, 02:23 PM.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                    Incidentally, this is a good thread. It's the kind of world-building stuff people generally forget about. And it makes a change from the normal charm comparison or which Exalt type is best. Good work SamuraiMujuru.
                    Thanks! It's something I didn't used to think about until a mix of listening to game craft podcasts and having a game that is heavily centered around a guild caravan, so crawling across creation in ways climate and weather changes are more gradual but also more relevant.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                      Does it? I've always wondered, but never got an answer. Does it say that somewhere in the books?
                      Not in the books, no, but I'm pretty sure the devs said, at some point in the old Ask the Devs thread, that they thought the Sun moved north and south over the course of the year, as part of the general policy of "Creation more or less looks like Earth except as noted".

                      Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz
                      I don't see why the North would have more extreme weather than places like Russia and Canada do in real life.
                      Well, as I said, the North is kind of getting a double-whammy of cold during the winter - the Pole of Fire is at its lowest ebb at that point, and the Pole of Air is ascendant, and the Sun itself is further south as well, so its rays are less intense.

                      Of course, mitigating against this is the fact that nowhere in the North is really as continental (that is, far from large bodies of water) as either Canada or Russia is. The place furthest from the sea is probably someplace on the north edge of the Wasting Tundra, which is about 1500 miles north of the White Sea. Compare that to the interior of Canada, which can get about 2500 miles from the sea, or Russia, which can be even further. So the most continental areas of Creation might be less so than Earth. On the other hand, the places in Creation most distant from water are also closest to their respective Poles, as well, which is going to change the equation again. Like I said, it's complicated!


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                      • #12
                        Creation's basically like the part of northern hemisphere focused on North African and Western Eurasia*, writ large (like, see), with far less change in climate over the same distance. Albeit, the extremes of cold and heat at the poles are more intense, and the topology is lots more rugged in many places, many microclimates, etc.

                        *3e's map is actually even more like this than 1e and 2e I think, since the greater extent of the north and south matches more closely North African and the Arctic Circle, while Dreaming Sea somewhat parallels the Indian Ocean (both thematically and in shape).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ghosthead View Post
                          Creation's basically like the part of northern hemisphere focused on North African and Western Eurasia*, writ large (like, see), with far less change in climate over the same distance. Albeit, the extremes of cold and heat at the poles are more intense, and the topology is lots more rugged in many places, many microclimates, etc.

                          *3e's map is actually even more like this than 1e and 2e I think, since the greater extent of the north and south matches more closely North African and the Arctic Circle, while Dreaming Sea somewhat parallels the Indian Ocean (both thematically and in shape).
                          That's pretty much exactly how I've been figuring it (except worded far more suck in my original post.)


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post

                            Not in the books, no, but I'm pretty sure the devs said, at some point in the old Ask the Devs thread, that they thought the Sun moved north and south over the course of the year, as part of the general policy of "Creation more or less looks like Earth except as noted".
                            I always thought it was a sensible thing to say, but I don't remember them ever actually saying so. I remember asking and mostly the question was avoided. But I could be remembering wrong.



                            Well, as I said, the North is kind of getting a double-whammy of cold during the winter - the Pole of Fire is at its lowest ebb at that point, and the Pole of Air is ascendant, and the Sun itself is further south as well, so its rays are less intense.
                            Yeah, but why hotter summers?

                            Of course, mitigating against this is the fact that nowhere in the North is really as continental (that is, far from large bodies of water) as either Canada or Russia is. The place furthest from the sea is probably someplace on the north edge of the Wasting Tundra, which is about 1500 miles north of the White Sea. Compare that to the interior of Canada, which can get about 2500 miles from the sea, or Russia, which can be even further. So the most continental areas of Creation might be less so than Earth. On the other hand, the places in Creation most distant from water are also closest to their respective Poles, as well, which is going to change the equation again. Like I said, it's complicated!
                            Sort of.
                            It's complicated to compare to Earth, but I think it's actually simpler in terms of straightforward "how hot is place X." It's just that Earth's climate is really complicated because we change position, distance from the sun, have this weird band thing going on, and that's not even getting into our magnetic field.
                            I think Creation is simpler. A wizard did it.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                              Yeah, but why hotter summers?
                              Basically, the same logic - during the summer in the North, the sun is making it hotter via the same mechanism as on Earth, its rays being more intense since it's further north, but also the Pole of Fire is pushing heat northwards since it's in its ascending period.

                              I actually like that difference compared to Earth, because I think it makes large populations more plausible in the northen regions - the winters may be colder, but they're not longer, meaning a society that could grow/collect enough food to live through an Earth winter should be able to do much the same in Creation, while the warmer summer means that growing more food overall and a wider variety of food is plausible.


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