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  • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

    I wouldn't necessarily say that it's totally impossible, but I wouldn't count on it. You'd need one of the best combat builds and play it pretty perfectly with a little luck. I wouldn't consider even a combat characters inability to do it reliably at chargen as some kind of failure.

    On the other hand consider that not only was the ISP Essence 2 in that scenario, and I also cheated on behalf of the Solar and used Hungry Tiger Technique on a non-crashed target, which isn't allowed.
    For a low Ess Solar, you pretty much stacked the deck entirely in ISP’s favour. So, no complaint at all there.

    What’s your take on 2v1, just curious (no need to run the combat of course, goodness!)

    Prototype00

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    • Originally posted by prototype00 View Post

      For a low Ess Solar, you pretty much stacked the deck entirely in ISP’s favour. So, no complaint at all there.

      What’s your take on 2v1, just curious (no need to run the combat of course, goodness!)

      Prototype00
      Against ISP? I'd put my money on the ISP almost every time. Barring something stupid like both DBs having Dragons Unfailing Vigor and Fathomless Depths Replenishment that they boost to the max every morning.

      The ISP simply has so much power that they can kill a DB right off the hop, and then it's just basement tier exalt vs ceiling tier exalt. Doing the same with a Lunar is a bit more risky because they don't have the same kind of Invincible Fury of the Dawn, Fivefold Fury Onslaught or whatever, but they do have explosive bear grapples and stuff that can do similar things. One on one almost no DB can beat a combat focused celestial reliably. Even at Essence 5 a DB is probably not beating a young celestial.

      The same thing happens to a lesser extent if you make the DBs Essence 1 or 2. Essence 2 to 3 for Dragonblooded is the biggest power jump in the game right now, probably will be forever, and if you took that away it would go a lot more from a fair fight to favoring the ISP. Signature charms and charms like Cloud Riot and PCD are just huge boons. As long as they're young DBs you could almost definitely take 3 of them.

      EDIT: Actually I just ran the first 4 rounds of that same combat except with depowered DBs at Essence 2, and it wasn't as easy as I thought. Some reasonably bad rolling meant the Wood aspect didn't die in the first round, and it looks like the Solar might eventually win, but it's really hard, the DBs are regenerating 15 per round to attack with and the Solar needs to defend against those 3 while trying to launch attacks back. To do this more fairly the DBs would need to lose the artifacts I think, and every DB antagonist in the book has full artifacts so I'm not sure if that's reasonable.
      Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 05-22-2019, 02:32 AM.

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      • So aluminiumtrioxid's immaculate fights made me wonder how well a non-immaculate Dragon Blooded martial artist would actually stack up. It'd be a bit rude to go from lurking to asking someone to do more work on my behalf, so I took a crack at running things myself. I've got to say that I hadn't appreciated quite how time consuming running an unfamiliar character and their opponents through a fight can be, so thanks to everyone in the thread for all your efforts. That out of the way, here's the details:

        Steel Devil Stylist:
        Aspect: Water
        Attributes: Str 3 Dex 5 Sta 3 / Wits 4
        Abilities: Steel Devil 5, Awareness 4, Brawl 4
        Charms:
        Steel Devil: Naked Fang Draw, Double Attack Technique, Steel Devil Strike, Steel Devil Form, Dual-Slaying Stance, Empty Mind Strike
        Brawl: Become the Hammer, Blade Deflecting Palm
        Resistance: 2 x Ox-Body Technique
        Equipment: Medium Armour, Dual Straight Swords

        Starting out with one of the more maligned martial arts, but also one that is suited to fighting opponents without sky high defenses. Standard stat spread and all of the Steel Devil charms went in first. Naked fang draw means you don't need the awareness excellency so you don't have to pick between the second Ox-body and Blade Deflecting Palm. All in all, pretty vanilla.


        The fight:

        Join Battle:
        Blood Ape 1 gets 8, Blood Ape 2 gets 5 and the Steel Devil stylist uses Naked Fang Draw to get 11. The Steel Devil's anima raises one level and she gains one off hand charge, but I opt against transferring any initiative just to hedge against poor early rolls.

        Round One:
        BA 1 8i, BA 2 5i, SD 11i
        The Steel Devil opens with a full excellency to build anima, avoiding Double Attack Technique because with the Terrestrial keyword it doesn't break even yet. Targeting BA 1 she inflicts 10 damage, crashing him and given the much more comfortable buffer she adds two to her offhand charge.
        BA 1 Attacks twice and the second scores what would have been a hit, but Blade Deflecting Palm turns it into a miss.
        BA 2 Attacks twice and this time the Steel Devil uses their excellency to up their parry to 6.(2m on the first attack, 4m on the second) The first attack would have landed, but once again Blade Deflecting Palm does it's job.

        Round Two:
        BA 1 8i, BA 2 -5i, SD 23i
        Steel Devil goes for another full excellency in order to hit bonfire, targeting BA 1. She only inflicts 4 initiative damage, one of which she transfers to off hand charge.
        BA 1 Attacks twice both of which miss by one.
        BA 2 Attacks twice with Steel Devil once again maintaining a Parry of 6. The second attack needs BDP to stop it, but neither hit.

        Round Three:
        BA 1 4i, BA 2 -5i, SD 26i
        Steel Devil's Anima does no damage.
        She uses 3 motes on her excellency this time and adds Double Attack Technique in her attack against BA 1. She inflicts 9 damage to crash him and immediately follows up with a Steel Devil Strike. This lands essentially automatically due to onslaught but only inflicts 2 decisive damage from 9 dice.
        BA 1 is at -1 wound penalty. He attacks twice and the first attacks hits with two threshold successes, so BDP can't help. However he only manages to inflict 2 withering damage.
        BA 2 Attacks twice (Blah blah, Parry 6) BDP once again makes it no hits.

        Round Four:
        BA 1 -2i, BA 2 -5i, SD 29i
        Steel Devil's Anima inflicts one more decisive damage on BA 1
        She tries to hit BA 2 with a decisive attack, feeling that she still have enough motes to prevent any initiative shift form BA 1 and wanting to prevent an initiative reset. She uses a single excellency die to get rerolled 6s, but he spends willpower int increase his parry and it pays off as she ends up one short with 4 successes.
        BA 1 attacks twice and misses both times.
        BA 2 attacks twice(Parry 6), but once again the best he can do is force one use of BDP.

        Round Five:
        BA -2i, BA 2 -5i, SD 29i
        Steel Devil's Anima hits BA 1 again bring him down to his last -1 health level
        She's reached the end of her mote pool, having only the 5 mote drip but the blood apes are reaching the end of their willpower with BA 1 having the last point left between them. As BA 2 can only make one attack and will reset and become ineligible for initiative shift she instead targets BA 1 with her second decisive attack. BA 1 spends willpower, but this time Steel Devil gets 10 successes. She inflicts 10 decisive damage and BA 1 goes down.
        BA 2 resets to base initiative and attacks using Brutal Ape Pounce because why not at this point? It rolls a 6 which misses due lack of onslaught.

        Round Six:
        BA 1 DEAD, BA 2 3i, SD 3i
        Steel Devil's anima role's a 10 and inflicts 2 withering damage on BA 2.
        She throws 1 Excellency die and a Double attack technique at him. This hits by 10 and inflicts 5 damage to crash BA 2 a second time. Steel devil ups her offhand charge by 2.
        BA 2 misses once again with 6 successes.

        Round Seven:
        BA 2 -4i, SD 12i
        Steel Devil's Anima has no effect
        The Dragon blood repeats her attack from last turn and only just hits with 4 successes. However she goes on to get 5 successes from 5 dice.
        BA 2 finally manages to roll 7 success, but blade deflecting palm once again turns the attack into a miss.

        Round Eight:
        BA 2 -9i, SD 17i
        Anima once again does nothing
        Steel Devil uses the same attack for a third time and this time inflicts 11 initiative damage. Using the few motes she's been saving she fires off an empty mind strike which automatically hits and inflicts 2 decisive damage from 6 dice.
        BA 2 attacks and botches. Given what's coming next round I don't both inflicting a penalty.

        Round Nine,
        BA 2 -20i, SD 29i
        Anima inflicts 1 damage
        Steel Devil's decisive attack inflicts 11. BA 2 dies


        So... mote tapped or not the Steel Devil won pretty comfortably, taking a single hit and always being ahead on initiative. However, a lot of that was the combination of Blade Deflecting Palm with medium weapons which seems pretty damn effective. The Blood Apes would have been a lot more threatening with stunt bonuses, but a big part of that would have been mitigated with a specialty so I'm prepared to call it a wash as part of the scenario.

        I tried to take advantage of Steel Devil Strike and Empty Mind strike, but I think it's fair to say that they didn't make a major difference on this occasion. I can see that they could make a big difference, but that wasn't how the dice fell today. Double Attack Technique with Terrestrial takes some build up before it's useful but it did help. Neither of the Forms got used as I went straight for the attack. I don't think Steel Devil Form would have helped much, a turn wouldn't have been worth the few motes saved or the extra Offhand Charge pool size we never filled, but at some point I'd like revisit and see what happens if you open with Dual-Slaying Stance and sit on the flat +2 Parry.
        Last edited by Speedbump; 05-26-2019, 06:33 AM. Reason: Typos, typos everywhere

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