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  • Has anyone done DBs vs. Ahlat, Fakharu, Octavian, or a nephwrack yet?

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    • Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
      Has anyone done DBs vs. Ahlat, Fakharu, Octavian, or a nephwrack yet?
      How many of what level of DBs are we taking here?

      I did a solo DB against a Nephwrack but he only won because I played the Nephwrack horribly. Although that DB also had a crappy build, he was an earth aspect that used the Wood aspect branches of the nominally Water Specter brawl tree.

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      • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
        How many of what level of DBs are we taking here?
        Any. They seem like no-brainers precisely for messing around with "How many of how strong DBs does it take to beat this."

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        • Monster Hunter: Dragon-Blooded Edition

          There was some debate on whether a Dragon-Blooded could defeat a Legendary Sized creature. DrLoveMonkey's example earlier was called "boring".

          So... let's try that again with a Starting Charater. Obviously, they can win with a Belt of Shadow Walking. But I contest that such was unneccessary and Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite was all a Deeb needs.

          Let's bully the most powerful animal in Creation with a Newb.

          Lok

          Cynis Lokaret
          Wood Aspect
          Monster Hunter
          House of Bells

          Dynasts love hunting dangerous game, but occasionally things get out-of-hand: then professional monster hunters are called in to clean up. Lok is one such hunter.

          Strength 3 (8BP)
          Dexterity 5
          Stamina 5


          Charisma 2
          Manipulation 3
          Appearance 2


          Perception 2
          Intelligence 1
          Wits 5


          Wood Aspect Abilities (and Specialties)
          Archery 2 (Big Game)
          Medicine 0
          Performance 1
          Ride 2
          Survival 2


          Favored Abilities (10 BP)
          Athletics 1
          Awareness 2 (Join Battle)
          Dodge 2 (Larger Foes)
          Integrity 1
          Melee 5 (Two-handed Weapons)


          Other Abilities
          Brawl 2
          Linguistics 1
          Lore 2
          Occult 3
          Presence 3
          Resistance 2
          Socialize 2
          War 3


          Merits (Native Language: High Realm)
          Artifact 3 (Grand Daiklave)
          Artifact 3 (Reinforced Breastplate)
          Manse 3 (Iron Soul Stone)
          Influence 1 (Renowned Hunter)
          (Dynastic Freebie) Resources 3
          (Dynastic Freebie) Language (Riverspeak)
          (Dynastic Freebie) Language (Low Realm)


          Free Excellencies
          1. Archery: Unobstructed Hunter’s Aim
          2. Awareness: Precision Awareness Method
          3. Dodge: Threshold Warding Stance
          4. Melee: Stoking Bonfire Style
          5. Survival: Ration-Enhancing Technique


          Charms


          1. Melee: Burning Fury Wreath
          2. Melee: Crimson Fang Bite
          3. Melee: Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite
          4. Melee: Blinding Spark Distraction
          5. Melee: Crossfire Flash
          6. Occult: Soul-Fire Cremation Technique
          7. Occult: Seed and Salt Warding
          8. Occult: Spirit Detecting Mirror
          9. Occult: Spirit Grounding Shout
          10. Occult: Invulnerable Skin of Bronze
          11. Resistance: Ox-Body Technique
          12. Resistance: Ox-Body Technique x2
          13. Resistance: Purifying Blood Ascendancy
          14. Resistance: Impervious Skin of Stone
          15. Survival: Quarry Revelation Technique

          Intimacies
          Defining Principle: I live for the thrill of the hunt! I fear no beast!
          Major Principle: The Immaculate Philosophy
          Minor Tie: My sword (Proud Possessiveness)
          Minor Tie: House Cynis (Naked Contempt)


          Combat
          Evasion 2 (2m: +1 and ignore environmental penalties)
          Parry 6

          Soak 7 Hardness 0
          (+Invulnerable Skin of Bronze: Soak 13 Hardness 8)
          (+Breastplate: Soak 22 Hardness 10)
          Mobility Penalty -2
          Resist Poison: 7 dice (2m: +1 success, reroll 6s)


          Grand Daiklave: Accuracy 12 (11 Decisive)(6m: +6); Damage 17 (6 OVR)(4m 1i: +5 OVR); Lethal, Melee, Reaching, Two-Handed
          Exceptional Long Bow: Accuracy 6/12/10/8/- (8 Decisive)(3m: +3); Damage 12 (1 OVR); Lethal, Archery (Long)

          Rush: 4
          Disengage: 5 (6 vs larger foes)(2m: +1 success and ignore environmental penalties)

          Join Battle: 8 dice (3m: +3 dice)

          Social
          Manipulative Presence 6 dice

          Resolve 3
          Guile 3

          Willpower 5
          Essence 2

          Personal motes 13
          Peripheral motes 31 (20, 11 committed)

          Health Track
          -0 x1
          -1 x4
          -2 x6
          -4 x1
          Incap

          Lok vs Liz, The Tyrant Lizard

          Join Battle

          Liz spends Willpower (6), rolls 10 dice for 4 successes, and adds 6 for 10i.
          Lok spends Willpower (4) and 3m (10/20m), rolls 11 dice for 6 successes, and adds 4 for 10i.

          Round 1

          10i. Hunter and hunted run into close range of each other and Clash!

          Liz rakes with its talons 13 dice (+1 success, WP 5) for 6 successes.
          Lok withers Liz to steal some initiative (1WP: +1 success, 3WP) backed by Stoking Bonfire Style (10/14m), Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite (10/10m, 9i), Crossfire Flash (10/5m), and Blinding Spark Distraction (9/5m, 8i) rolling (12+2+6) 20 dice with two rerolls adding 1 automatic success for 11 successes. Her anima rises to Bonfire (3a) and she gets a 1m discount on Stoking Bonfire Style and gains 1i for landing a Withering attack (9i).

          Lok wins the Clash with five threshold successes, raising her damage to 22. Liz has 15 Soak, which would bring the damage down to 7, but Lok has Overwhelming 11: she rolls 11 dice for 6 success, and adds a further 3 for winning a Clash. Liz goes down to 1i. Lok goes up to 18i.

          Liz rolls its 10 dice Resist Poison/Disease pool against Difficulty (2+5) 7 for Blinding Spark Distraction, spending 1 Willpower for an automatic success (4WP). It rolls 6 successes, which, with Willpower, passes.

          Lok enters Wood Aura.

          Liz: 9i, 4 Willpower, -2 Clash
          Lok: 18i, 9/10m, 3 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 2

          Anima: Liz has Hardness and is thus immune.

          18i. Lok makes a decisive attack. She spends 5m on Stoking Bonfire Style to gain +6 dice (9/5m). She rolls 17 dice against Liz's Parry of (6-2) 3, rolling 7 successes and hitting easily and gaining another 1m discount.

          Lok rolls 18 dice of damage for 6 successes, this puts Liz into its -1s (6L). Lok resets to 3i.

          1i. Liz snaps its vicious jaws at Lok, backing the attack with Willpower (3). Liz defends with a 4m Stoking Bonfire Style (5/5m) for Parry 9. Liz rolls 10 dice for 4 successes, 5 with the Willpower, missing. Lok's Excellency discount rises to 3m.

          Liz: 1i, 3 Willpower
          Lok: 3i, 5/10m, 3 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 3

          Anima: Liz still has Hardness.

          3i. Lok Withers with a full Excellency (5/7m) and Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite (5/3m, 2i). Liz defends on Parry 6 (Thick Scales). Lok rolls 18 dice to hit, rolling 13 successes. Lok gains 1i (3i) and her discount rizes to 4m.

          Lok's base damage is 17 + 7 for Threshold Successes + 5 from Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite's Aura effect for 29. Minus 15 for 14 dice of damage. Lok rolls 8 successes, Crashing Liz (-7i). Lok rises to (3+8+5) 16i.

          -7i. Liz tries a Talon rake, rolling 12 dice backed by Willpower (2WP). Lok defends with a full excellency (3/3m) for Parry 9. Liz rolls 7 successes, plus 1 for 8, missing. Lok's discount rises to 5m.

          Liz: -7i, 2 Willpower, 7L (-1)
          Lok: 16i, 3/8m, 3 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 4

          Anima: Lok rolls 1 die of damage, showing a single success. Liz takes 1L (7L, -1) and is exposed to Wood Anima Poison. Liz rolls (10-Wound Penalty) 9 dice for 5 successes, reducing the poison's duration to ((5+2)-5) 2 rounds.

          16i. Lok makes a Decisive attack, Full Excellency (3/7m), rolling 17 dice. Liz spends Willpower (1 Willpower) to defend on Parry 7. Lok rolls 9 successes, hitting. Maximum discount reached on Stoking Bonfire Style.

          Lok rolls 16i in damage for 9 successes. Legendary Size caps that damage at 6L. Liz has taken 13L, putting it firmly in its -2s. Lok resets to 3i.

          -7i. Liz... I mean... really, we're still doing this? Okay... I mean... okay... talon rake is 13 dice, -2 Wound Penalty, -1 Poison. 10 dice vs a Full Excellency (3/7m) Parry of 9. Liz rolls 3 success, missing.

          Poison: Rolls 2 dice for 1 success. Liz has taken 14L (-2). One round of duration remaining.

          Liz: -7i, 1 Willpower, 14L (-2)
          Lok: 3i, 3/12m, 3 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 5

          Anima: Lok rolls 1 die for 0 successes.

          3i. Lok Withers Liz to steal some intiative. Rolling a Full Excellency 18 dice backed by Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite (3/8m, 2i). Liz defends on Parry 6. Lok rolls 6 successes, hitting (3i).

          Lok has 22 damage -15 Soak for 11 Overwhelming. 4 successes (7i/-11i).

          -11. Liz makes a Withering attack rolling 10 dice vs Parry 9 for 7 successes, missing.

          Poison: Rolls 2 dice for 0 successes. The poison is purged.

          Liz: -11i, 1 Willpower, 14L (-2)
          Lok: 7i, 3/13m, 3 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 6

          Anima: 1 die for 0 successes.

          7i. Lok delays to Clash. (5i)

          -11i. Having survived 3 rounds in Crash, Liz resets to Base (5i).

          Clash: Liz attacks with a Willpower backed talon rake (11 dice+1 success). Lok attacks with a Full Excellency (3/13m)(18+2 dice), Willpower (2WP), Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite (3/9m, 4i), and Crossfire Flash (3/4m). Liz rolls (10+1) 11 successes (waaaa-) and Lok rolls (13+1) 14 successes. Lok rises to 5i.

          Lok rolls Overwhelming 11 dice of damage for 5i, plus the Clash bonus. Liz recovered from Crash this round, so no Crash bonus. Lok rises to 13i, Liz falls to -3i.

          Liz: -3i, 0 Willpower, 14L (-2), -2 Clash
          Lok: 13i, 3/9m, 2 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 7

          Anima: 1 die for 0 successes

          13i. Lok makes a Decisive attack, Full Excellency (17 dice). Liz defends on Parry 4. Lok rolls 9 successes, hitting.

          Lok rolls 13i for 5L and resets to 3i. Liz has taken 17L and really should attempt to flee. Let's say it's cornered.

          -3i. Why not try for a grapple? Liz rolls 6 dice to against Parry 9 to try and land a grapple. Liz rolls 3 successes and misses.

          Liz: -3i, 0 Willpower, 17L
          Lok: 3i, 3/14m, 2 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 8

          Anima: 1 die for 1 success. Liz has taken 18L (-4) and is exposed to Poison, rolling 6 dice to resist. Liz rolls 3 successes and is poisoned for 4 rounds.

          3i. Lok makes a Full Excellency Withering Attack backed by Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite (3/10m, 2i). She rolls 18 dice against parry 6 getting (LMAO) 17 successes, Threshold 11. Lok rizes to 4i.

          Lok deals (17+11+5-15) 18 dice of damage for (WTF) 18i. Liz drops to -21i. Lok rizes to 22i.

          -21i. Liz falls back on the good old fashioned talon rake, rolling (13-4-1) 8 dice against Parry 9 for a gobsmacking 8 successes. Which still misses, but... wow.

          Poison: 2 dice deal 1L (19L, -4). Three rounds remain.

          Liz: -21i, 0 Willpower, 19L
          Lok: 22i, 3/15m, 2 Willpower, 3a, Wood Aura

          Round 9

          Anima: Rolls 1 die for 0 successes.

          22i. Lok makes a full excellency Decisive, rolling 17 dice against Parry 6 for 8 successes, hitting.

          Lok rolls 22 dice of damage for 8 successes, capped at 6. Liz takes 6L, for a total of 24L (-4)

          -21i. Liz talon rakes for 4 successes vs Parry 9, missing.

          Poison: 1L pushes Liz into Incapacitated with 25L damage.

          Fatality.


          There you have it folks. Legendary Size makes the fight a slog, but it can't match the power of Awakened Essence.
          Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-05-2020, 07:48 PM.


          Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

          Comment


          • Damn that was some good rolling on both sides at the end there. Demon Crushing Wolf Bite is definitely a monster hunting charm, for sure. I'm also with you that if this were an actual game I think at the round 4 part I would have just called it and say the lizard attempts to flee and if the players want they can just cut it down there.

            Comment


            • A few things that struck me about that fight:
              Lok never missed an attack, Liz never hit. The excellency, and therefore the ability to hit without being hit, is very strong.
              The Stoking Bonfire Style discount mattered a lot - without it Lok would have been at much higher risk of running out of motes before the fight ended. I wonder how well a non-melee DB could do here. I also am re-evaluating that charm - as a Storyteller for a group of Solars I've found it pretty weak, since DB's so rarely succeed on a roll, but against an enemy with lower attack/defense and high damage/soak it seems quite valuable.
              Legendary size didn't seem to do much - I think Liz would have been spending most of the fight at 0 onslaught, and some at -1. I don't think the crash protection every happened, and the damage limit didn't do very much (prevented 5 total damage, but the difference between 13 and 16 damage isn't much. The third decisive would have taken her out instead of knocking her into -4s, but in a 1 on 1 fight those are the same thing). I wonder if it would be more valuable for a Tyrant Lizard as a boss fight for several weaker enemies, where onslaught would matter more and they might struggle to ever crash her.

              Comment


              • In its niche Stoking Bonfire Style is actually pretty broken, the only think keeping it balanced is how relatively small the niche is. In almost all cases in Exalted a full excellency is effectively an automatic success, like your action will automatically succeed, and the only thing keeping that balanced is the mote expense.

                Which is why I was so leery about offering balance advise for Raging Fire-Dragon Spirit, at Essence 5 it gives you +5 free dice on all attack rolls and combat movement rolls. Basically a full free excellency on all attacks and movement for a scene is so incredibly good that you pretty much have to cripple it in other ways to make it balanced.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                  Damn that was some good rolling on both sides at the end there.
                  I've stopped correcting for statistical variance. I just roll the dice and whatever happens, happens. I was on a hot streak.

                  Originally posted by autXautY View Post
                  A few things that struck me about that fight:
                  Lok never missed an attack, Liz never hit. The excellency, and therefore the ability to hit without being hit, is very strong.
                  The Stoking Bonfire Style discount mattered a lot - without it Lok would have been at much higher risk of running out of motes before the fight ended. I wonder how well a non-melee DB could do here. I also am re-evaluating that charm - as a Storyteller for a group of Solars I've found it pretty weak, since DB's so rarely succeed on a roll, but against an enemy with lower attack/defense and high damage/soak it seems quite valuable.
                  Legendary size didn't seem to do much - I think Liz would have been spending most of the fight at 0 onslaught, and some at -1. I don't think the crash protection every happened, and the damage limit didn't do very much (prevented 5 total damage, but the difference between 13 and 16 damage isn't much. The third decisive would have taken her out instead of knocking her into -4s, but in a 1 on 1 fight those are the same thing). I wonder if it would be more valuable for a Tyrant Lizard as a boss fight for several weaker enemies, where onslaught would matter more and they might struggle to ever crash her.
                  Sorry if I parsed this wrong, but Legendary Size means you ignore Onslaught from smaller foes.

                  Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite combined with either a Balanced Medium Weapon or any Heavy weapon gives you 10+ post-soak damage so Legendary Size Crash protection will NEVER kick in. A balanced medium weapon is the optimal monster hunter choice for the extra parry -- the Tyrant Lizard only had a 14% chance of hitting Parry 9, but Parry 10 would have cut that in half. But a massive two-handed weapon FEELS a lot more "monster hunter" to me.

                  Deebs pretty much need Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite to fight Legendary Size, so Stoking Bonfire gets in by default. I might run Cynis Ganan vs a Tyrant Lizard as Covid has shut down Dynasty of Dovak until January, just to see how Martial Arts does.

                  Tyrant Lizards have 13 dice on their most accurate attack. They can add up to 4 successes to that, but they need to be winning the fight in order to do so. Whereas a heavy weapon deeb can throw 18 dice (22 on a Clash). It's really not hard to hit Parry 4-6 with 18 dice. That said, I forgot the Clash and reroll dice in round 6, and thought Liz won that one... which would have crashed Lok and left her at -3 defence for a 27d Decisive Bite Attack with four automatic successes to hit... so... it could go either way. (But, on the other hand, the Tyrant Lizard rolling 10 successes on 10 dice was wildly improbable: 97.7% of the time, that doesn't happen.)
                  Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-05-2020, 07:46 PM.


                  Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                  Comment


                  • DCWB isn't required, a mounted horse archer would beat a tyrant lizard for sure, it just might take 20 rounds. With a base combat movement of 15+ vs the lizard's 7-Wound and mobility penalties (hello Life Swelling Sap Strike) the odds of catching the archer are slim, and when they do they get probably one shot at taking her out before she gets away. If this is taking place somewhere with difficult terrain that the DB can ignore with Tread Rooted in Life it becomes even more one-sided.

                    Now a DB Brawler...that might have some serious trouble fighting a T-Rex.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

                      Sorry if I parsed this wrong, but Legendary Size means you ignore Onslaught from smaller foes.

                      Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite combined with either a Balanced Medium Weapon or any Heavy weapon gives you 10+ post-soak damage so Legendary Size Crash protection will NEVER kick in. A balanced medium weapon is the optimal monster hunter choice for the extra parry -- the Tyrant Lizard only had a 14% chance of hitting Parry 9, but Parry 10 would have cut that in half. But a massive two-handed weapon FEELS a lot more "monster hunter" to me.

                      Deebs pretty much need Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite to fight Legendary Size, so Stoking Bonfire gets in by default. I might run Cynis Ganan vs a Tyrant Lizard as Covid has shut down Dynasty of Dovak until January, just to see how Martial Arts does.
                      I worry you think I thought you misplayed at some point - I don't think you made any rules mistake.

                      I'm trying to think through how different fights between exalts and giant monsters would go by looking for what rules come up and how much different effects seem to matter. I was thinking that the onslaught-ignoring ability matters more for fights of a tyrant lizard against multiple mortals, or an elemental dragon against multiple exalts, or similar, than in a 1 on 1 fight like this.

                      I hadn't noticed the importance of DCWB bringing your overwhelming over the 10 damage bar and allowing crash.

                      Comment


                      • I have a question I'm not really sure about. Who is the strongest (as in, best fighter) Dragon Blood we have stats for? Is it Berit, Cathak Cainan, or someone else?

                        My question is, can that strongest DB beat the Abyssal Antagonist presented in the Core book 1-on-1?


                        Please be warned: this is not champagne, this is most likely a duck.
                        -Chausse

                        Message me for Japanese translations.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                          Sorry if I parsed this wrong, but Legendary Size means you ignore Onslaught from smaller foes.

                          Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite combined with either a Balanced Medium Weapon or any Heavy weapon gives you 10+ post-soak damage so Legendary Size Crash protection will NEVER kick in. A balanced medium weapon is the optimal monster hunter choice for the extra parry -- the Tyrant Lizard only had a 14% chance of hitting Parry 9, but Parry 10 would have cut that in half. But a massive two-handed weapon FEELS a lot more "monster hunter" to me.
                          Great fight.

                          I've always thought Stoking Bonfire Style's discount only kicks in on subsequent 'main' rounds (I.e. the discount gained in Round 2 should only kick in Round 3)?

                          When she lands an attack against an enemy or blocks one with this Charm, the cost of using this Charm against him is cumulatively lowered by one mote on subsequent rounds. Missing an attack or failing to parry resets the discount, as does attacking or blocking against another enemy, or going a round without using this Charm.

                          By my interpretation Lok was getting his bonus too early. SBS is good (and excels in white room 1v1s) but it's not that good I don't think? Our group has been short changing our selves if not...

                          It wouldn't have made a difference here either way though, a mote here or there and a very minor quibble. Just curious if I've been playing this wrong...

                          Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                          I have a question I'm not really sure about. Who is the strongest (as in, best fighter) Dragon Blood we have stats for? Is it Berit, Cathak Cainan, or someone else?

                          My question is, can that strongest DB beat the Abyssal Antagonist presented in the Core book 1-on-1?
                          Ragara's stats in Heirs aren't right, but he's pretty terrifying (and my shout if he stays in the ball park he's in now), as are Arada and Ghandarva. Would be interesting to play out.

                          I ran an optimised starting melee DB against the Abyssal (not mounted) in a white room and won but got massively, stupidly lucky in the process (DB won a 50-50 clash and then the Abyssal whiffed twice when really should have hit from memory). Should run it again.

                          Actually, Deled against the Deathknight might be interesting. Golden Janissary and all that. Might run that in a quiet moment today.
                          Last edited by Moss Reynholm; 11-06-2020, 07:41 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Moss Reynholm View Post

                            Great fight.

                            I've always thought Stoking Bonfire Style's discount only kicks in on subsequent 'main' rounds (I.e. the discount gained in Round 2 should only kick in Round 3)?

                            When she lands an attack against an enemy or blocks one with this Charm, the cost of using this Charm against him is cumulatively lowered by one mote on subsequent rounds. Missing an attack or failing to parry resets the discount, as does attacking or blocking against another enemy, or going a round without using this Charm.
                            You are correct. Lok had enough unspent motes for it not to make much of a difference though.


                            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                              I have a question I'm not really sure about. Who is the strongest (as in, best fighter) Dragon Blood we have stats for? Is it Berit, Cathak Cainan, or someone else?

                              My question is, can that strongest DB beat the Abyssal Antagonist presented in the Core book 1-on-1?
                              Assuming a straight fight (and not "I summon Octavian, lol" from Mnemon) either Cainan or Ragara. Berit is absolutely no slouch, but Cainan and Ragara are terrifying.

                              Cainan could walk the Wandering Deathknight.


                              Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

                                Assuming a straight fight (and not "I summon Octavian, lol" from Mnemon) either Cainan or Ragara. Berit is absolutely no slouch, but Cainan and Ragara are terrifying.

                                Cainan could walk the Wandering Deathknight.
                                Is this because Cainan is fleshed out and the Death Knight is just a statblock?


                                Please be warned: this is not champagne, this is most likely a duck.
                                -Chausse

                                Message me for Japanese translations.

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