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  • Originally posted by Moss Reynholm View Post
    I ran an optimised starting melee DB against the Abyssal (not mounted) in a white room and won but got massively, stupidly lucky in the process

    ...

    Actually, Deled against the Deathknight might be interesting. Golden Janissary and all that. Might run that in a quiet moment today.
    Yeaaah, so I might not be the best person to run the Deathknight going by his average dice rolls with me. QC decisive attack stats with stunts strike again.

    Peleps Deled (Heirs to the Shogunate stats) v Wandering Deathknight (Core, pp.550)



    Starts at close range
    One-point stunts assumed

    JOIN BATTLE
    DK spends 7m and rolls 18 dice for: 3 7 3 2 6 1 1 1 8 2 4 1 9 5 8 4 6 4
    4 successes (!) gets him to 7i

    PD spends 4m and 1 WP and rolls 15 dice for: 1 9 9 5 1 8 7 8 5 4 4 10 10 3 4 8 9 4
    12 successes (!) gets him to 15i

    PD: 15i, 15p/26ph, 7wp
    DK: 7i, 16p/33ph, 6wp


    ROUND 1
    PD: 15i, 15p/26ph, 7wp
    DK: 7i, 16p/33ph, 6wp


    PD makes an unarmed decisive attack using a 6m Excellency, Falling Scythe Flash (5m), Greatest Killer Attitude (3m, 1WP) and willpower.

    DK defends with a 10m Excellency, Elegant Flowing Deflection (2m) and willpower for a parry of 13.

    23 dice + 1 success gives: 9 2 7 5 4 2 8 7 4 10 7 6 1 10 1 7 6 1 10 8 2 2 6
    14 successes, attack hits.

    Damage pool of 15 (Initiative) plus 2 (Falling Scythe Flash) = 17, and 4 of these are converted to successes by Greatest Killer Attitude, leaving a damage pool of 13 which gives: 3 3 10 2 7 9 7 3 1 8 10 4 9

    7 damage from the roll + 4 from Greatest Killer Attitude = 11 HL damage.

    DK is down.

    PD reflexively enters Golden Janissary Form (8m) and struts off into the distance looking for more Anathema to roundhouse kick in the face.



    This is obviously not representative Sorcerous Overlord, but yeah, like John mentions above, several published DBs can smash the Wandering Deathknight. He's not got that many heath levels, and Hundred Razor Circle is only simple so he's not go that many defensive tricks other than a big Excellency on his unpenalised parry and soak.

    If a couple(?) of well-built starter DBs can wear him out and avoid taking too many penalties from Artful Maiming Onslaught I don't fancy his chances, let alone one of the big guns.

    EDIT: Feel like I should add to this that Volfer, despite the fact we know a number of starting DBs can beat him, would probably do better than the Deathknight here as (a) not a Creature of Darkness and (b) he has Excellent Strike, which negates a lot of Deled's defensive options which would have been annoying for the Deathknight to deal with.

    That said, and although he got lucky here, Deled's White Reaper charms make him very dangerous when he has initiative - any decisive he lands is going to hurt and his unarmed decisives are stupidly accurate.

    EDIT 2: New Wyld Hunt strategy: everyone take Victory-Seeking Insight, give all your initiative to Deled at Join Battle and tell him to punch that Anathema as hard as he can...
    Last edited by Moss Reynholm; 11-06-2020, 01:56 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Moss Reynholm View Post
      Ragara's stats in Heirs aren't right, but he's pretty terrifying (and my shout if he stays in the ball park he's in now), as are Arada and Ghandarva. .
      I can’t actually find the quote so I’m not 100% sure on this, but I think Vance mentioned on discord that actually Ragara’s stats are intentional. As a QC he has extra dice from nowhere to make up for his pathetically small list of charms and other merits, compared to what you’d expect from his age.

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      • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
        I can’t actually find the quote so I’m not 100% sure on this, but I think Vance mentioned on discord that actually Ragara’s stats are intentional. As a QC he has extra dice from nowhere to make up for his pathetically small list of charms and other merits, compared to what you’d expect from his age.

        Ah, I was going off this, think it's just his attack stats that are screwy: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...83#post1381983

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        • Originally posted by Moss Reynholm View Post


          Ah, I was going off this, think it's just his attack stats that are screwy: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...83#post1381983
          Ahhh that’s what it is. Yes it’s right for QCs to break 11 dice, but his attack pool in particular is too much.

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          • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post

            Is this because Cainan is fleshed out and the Death Knight is just a statblock?
            Join Battle

            Dead Meat rolls 16 dice (16/22m, 6WP, 1a) for 12i.
            Cainan rolls 14 dice plus Willpower (16/18m, 8WP, 1a) for 12i.

            Round 1

            Clash: Dead Meat rides a pale horse, closing to Close Range and Clashing with a Decisive attack backed by Willpower (5WP), a full excellency (16/12, 3a), Artful Maiming Onslaught (16/10, 10i), and Savage Shade Style (16/8). She rolls 22 dice for (11+1) 12 successes.

            Cainan defends with Willpower (7WP), a Full Excellency (16/12, 2a), Crimson Fang Bite (16/9, 6WP), and Smoldering Essence Attack (16/4m, 1a). He also rolls 22 dice (14+1) 15 successes, gaining 1i for hitting 13i.

            Cainan rolls (14+3+5-15) 7 dice of damage plus 3 for the Clash, for 7i with one 10. Cainan goes up to 20i, Dead Meat goes down to 4i.

            Cainan activates Burning Pinnacle Strike (16/1m), and Withers with a Full Excellency (11/0m, 2a), and Willpower (5WP). Dead Meat defends with a Full Excellency, Elegant Flowing Deflection and Willpower (12/0m, 4WP) for Parry 12. Cainan rolls 20 dice for 11 successes, missing and loses 1i. Cainan enters Fire Aura.

            Dead Meat: 4i, 12/5m, 3a, 4WP, -2 Clash, -2 Onslaught
            Cainan: 19i, 11/5, 3a, Fire Aura, 5WP

            Round 2

            19i. Cainan Withers again using a Full Excellency (10/0m) and Willpower (4WP) for 20 dice.

            Dead Meat uses a Full Excellency, Elegant Flowing Deflection, and Willpower (5/0m, 3WP) for Parry 12.

            Cainan hits with 12 successes and rolls (14-15) 4 dice of overwhelming damage for 1i. Cainan goes up to 21i. Dead Meat drops to 3i.

            3i. Dead Meat loses 1i from Smoldering Essence Attack (2i) and uses a 5m Excellency and Willpower to Wither (0/0m, 2WP) for 17 dice: 11 successes.

            Cainan defends with Portentous Comet Deflection, Willpower, and a full Excellency (1/0m, 2WP, Expend Fire Aura) for 22 dice: 13 successes.

            Cainan rolls 19 dice of Lethal damage for 8L (-2) and resets to 3i.

            Dead Meat: 2i, 0/5m, 3a, 2WP, 8L (-2), -2 Clash, -2 Onslaught
            Cainan: 3i, 1/5m, 3a, 2WP

            Round 3

            3i. Cainan delays to Clash (1i).

            Clash: Dead Meat loses 1i from Smoldering Essence Attack (1i) and uses a 5m Excellency and Willpower to Wither (0/0m, 1WP) for 15 dice: 8 successes.

            Cainan uses a Full Excellency (0/0m) for 22 dice and 10 successes. Cainan gains 1i for hitting (2i)

            Cainan rolls (14+2-15) 4 dice of overwhelming damage with 3 Clash successes for 5i. Dead Meat drops to -4i. Cainan rises to 12i.

            Dead Meat: -4i, 0/5m, 3a, 1WP, 8L (-2), -2 Clash, -1 Onslaught
            Cainan: 12i, 0/5m, 3a, 2WP

            Round 4

            Anima: Cainan rolls 3 dice of Lethal damage for 2 successes, Incapacitating the Wandering Deathknight.

            ****

            Wow... that was MUCH closer than I thought. Cainan could very concievably lose this.
            Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-06-2020, 07:31 PM.


            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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            • Isn't Cainen's anima damage 5 dice?

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              • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                Isn't Cainen's anima damage 5 dice?
                Yes, yes it is.

                Dynasty of Dovak is still at Essence 3: I've never used an Essence 5 Fire Aspect before -- I hadn't realized it was higher of 3 or Essence. I mistakenly thought it was just 3.


                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                  Yes, yes it is.

                  Dynasty of Dovak is still at Essence 3: I've never used an Essence 5 Fire Aspect before -- I hadn't realized it was higher of 3 or Essence. I mistakenly thought it was just 3.
                  Yeah, that and the wood anima one get pretty crazy at Essence 5+. Making a difficulty 10 roll to resist poison can be taxing.

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                  • Cynis Ganan (Current 180XP version) Vs Tyrant Lizard

                    Join Battle

                    Ganan preempts haste, draws his tetsubo from a bolder, and activates his anima power and uses a full excellency (14/14m, 3a) rolling 14 dice with double 9s for 13i.
                    Tyrant Lizard rolls 10 dice plus willpower for 11i.

                    Round 1

                    13i. Ganan delays to Clash, waiving the initiative cost.

                    Clash. Tyrant Lizard uses talon rake with Willpower. Rolls 13 dice for 6 successes.

                    Ganan uses a full excellency (14/8m), force of the mountain (14/5m) smashing attack (12i), rolling 21 dice for 9 successes. Ganan gains 1i for hitting (13i).

                    Ganan rolls (20+3+5-15) 13 dice of withering damage, rerolling 6s, plus three for 7i. Tyrant Lizard drops to 4i. Ganan rises to 20i. Ganan enters Earth Aura.

                    Ganan: 20i, 14/10m, 5WP, 3a, Earth Aura
                    Tyrant Lizard: 4i, 6WP

                    Round 2

                    20i. Ganan uses Chambered Fist Charge to gain 2 Charges (14/8m, 19i).

                    4i. Tyrant Lizard uses a Withering Bite with Willpower, rolling 11 dice +1 success against Ganan's Parry of 6, for 7 successes, hitting. Ganan reflexively enters Earth Dragon Form (13/0m). Tyrant Lizard rolls (12+1-20) 5 dice of overwhelming damage for 2i. Tyrant Lizard rises to 7i. Ganan falls to 17i.

                    Ganan: 17i, 13/5m, 5WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 2/4 Charges, Aim bonus
                    Tyrant Lizard: 6i, 6WP.

                    Round 3

                    17i. Ganan delays to Clash (15i).

                    Clash. Tyrant Lizard uses a WP backed talon rake for 7 successes.

                    Ganan uses a 3m Excellency, Force of the Mountain, Smashing attack (12/0m, 14i), rolling 24 dice for 13 successes. Ganan gains 1i for hitting (15i).

                    Ganan rolls (20+2+6+5-15) 18 dice of damage, rerolling 6s, plus three for winning the clash for 13i. Tyrant Lizard falls to -7i. Ganan gains the Crash bonus and rises to 33i.

                    Ganan: 33i, 12/5m, 5WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 2/4 Charges
                    Tyrant Lizard: -7i, 5WP, -2 Clash, -1 Onslaught

                    Round 4

                    Anima: Ganan rolls 1 die for 0 successes.

                    33i. Ganan uses Chambered Fist Charge to gain 2 Charges (10/5m, 32i).

                    -7i. Tyrant Lizard uses a WP backed talon rake (4WP) against Ganan's Parry of 6 for 7 successes, hitting. Rolling minimum damage for 1i.

                    Ganan: 31i, 10/10m, 5WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 4/4 Charges, Aim bonus
                    Tyrant Lizard: -5i, 4WP

                    Round 5

                    Anima: Ganan rolls 1 die for 0 successes.

                    31i. Ganan delays to Clash (29i).

                    Clash. Tyrant Lizard uses WP backed talon rake for 9 successes.

                    Ganan uses a 3m Excellency, Force of the Mountain, smashing, Willpower backed, Decisive attack (10/4m, 28i, 4WP). Rolling 22 dice for 11 successes. Hitting.

                    Ganan reflexively activates Bone-Crushing Strike (10/0m, 3 Charges). He rolls 28 dice of damage, with double-10s, rerolling 6s, plus one level from the Clash for 20B -- capped at 8B for Legendary Size. Ganan resets to 3i.

                    Ganan: 3i, 10/5m, 4WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 3/4 Charges
                    Tyrant Lizard: -5i, 3WP, -3 to attack and movement rolls, 8B (-1), -2 Clash

                    Round 6

                    Anima: Ganan rolls 1 die for 0 successes.

                    3i. Ganan withering smashes with Force of the mountain (10/2m, 2i). He rolls 16 dice against Parry 4 for 10 successes (3i).

                    He rolls (20+3+6+5-15) 19 dice of withering damage with rerolling 6s for 10i (13i/-15i).

                    -15i. Tyrant Lizard goes for another talon rake, rolling (13-3-1) 9 dice against Parry 6 for 4 successes, missing.

                    Ganan: 15i, 10/7m, 4WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 3/4 Charges
                    Tyrant Lizard: -15i, 3WP, -3 to attack and movement rolls, 8B (-1),

                    Round 7

                    Anima: Ganan rolls 1 die for 0 successes.

                    15i. Ganan uses Earthshaker Attack, stamping his foot on the ground, backed by a 1m Excellency (0/6m, 10i, 3WP). He rolls 12 dice for 5 successes.

                    Tyant Lizard resists with (7-1-3) 4 dice for 3 successes, falling prone.

                    Ganan rolls 5 dice of bashing damage, rerolling 6s, for 3B. Tyrant Lizard (11B) is thrown backward as a short fall and takes a further 4B in damage (15B, -2). Would at this point attempt to flee.

                    Ganan uses his reflexive movement to close back to Close range.

                    5i. Tyrant Lizard recovers from Crash and tries to rise from prone rolling (7-2-3) 2 dice backed by Willpower for the 2 successes needed to stand up.

                    Ganan: 10i, 0/11m, 3WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 3/4 Charges
                    Tyrant Lizard: 5i, 2WP, -3 to attack and movement rolls, 15B (-2)

                    Round 8

                    10i. Ganan uses Chambered Fist Charge to gain 1 Charge (0/9m, 9i).

                    5i. Tyrant Lizard uses an 8 dice talon rake for 3 successes, missing.

                    Ganan: 9i, 0/14m, 3WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 4/4 Charges, Aim bonus
                    Tyrant Lizard: 5i, 2WP, -3 to attack and movement rolls, 15B (-2)

                    Round 9

                    9i. Ganan delays to Clash (7i).

                    Clash. Tyrant Lizard talon rakes for 7 successes (1WP).

                    Ganan Withering, Smashes with a 3m Excellency and Force of the Mountain (0/8m, 8i) rolling 24 dice for 12 successes (9i).

                    Ganan rolls (20+4+5+5-15) 19 dice of damage, rerolling 6s, adding 3 for 9i. Tyrant Lizard drops to -4i. Ganan gets the Crash bonus for 23i.

                    Ganan: 24i, 0/13m, 3WP, 3a, Earth Aura, Earth Dragon Form, 4/4 Charges
                    Tyrant Lizard: -4i, 1WP, -3 to attack and movement rolls, 15B (-2), -2 Clash.

                    Round 10

                    Anima: Ganan rolls 1 die for 1 success (15B1L).

                    24i. Ganan makes a Decisive Smash attack backed by a 3m Excellency and Force of the Mountain (0/7m, 23i).

                    He rolls 17 dice against Parry 5 (0WP), getting 6 successes. Then he rolls 23 dice of damage, rerolling 6s and double-10s for 13B, capped at 8B. Tyrant Lizard goes up to 23B1L (-4).

                    -4i. Tyrant Lizard goes for one last talon rake, rolling (13-3-4) 6 dice against Parry 6, and missing.

                    Round 11

                    Anima: Ganan rolls 1 die for 1 success (23B2L).

                    Tyrant Lizard is Incapacitated.


                    Bully!

                    So... if you carry a big stick, looks like DB Martial Arts can convincingly take down a Tyrant Lizard too. They really need their Furious Ramage/Ferocious Bite in order to be a threat to Combat Focused Exalted. Brutal Stomp (instead of Bite) would have been good against anything that isn't an Earth Immaculate in Round 2.
                    Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-08-2020, 06:15 PM.


                    Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                    • I think the next question is, could an Awakened Tyrant Lizard defeat a powerful Dynast.

                      Spoiler: I have no idea how that works. Someone in Yu Shan is fucking around


                      Please be warned: this is not champagne, this is most likely a duck.
                      -Chausse

                      Message me for Japanese translations.

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                      • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                        I think the next question is, could an Awakened Tyrant Lizard defeat a powerful Dynast.

                        Spoiler: I have no idea how that works. Someone in Yu Shan is fucking around
                        Yes.

                        Here's the thing.

                        A Tyrant Lizard can (in theory) grapple you. It rolls for control unopposed, getting ~5 rounds of control. Then it makes two Decisive attacks, the second at +5 damage. Then it resets to 10i and leaves you prone.

                        Next round it can make another Decisive bite, doubling the damage to 20 dice. But at least you won't be prone.

                        Or, if the ST is being mean, it will just use its good attack. Brutal Stomp uses the Tyrant Lizards second best pool to render you prone (I like to Wither here). Then you get to attack again with a grapple. Remember you're grappling unopposed, so ~5 rounds (only reduced by taking damage as per Iron Jaws). Each round you Restrain your foe (meaning they can't move or attack) and you deal 6L (ignoring Hardness). That's 30L for 3i 1WP.

                        The ONLY reason the Exalted don't get owned is that the Tyrant Lizard only rolls 8 dice to grapple and only rolls 13 dice with their most accurate attack. Getting hit once is a death sentence... But a Parry 9 Exalt isn't going to get hit.

                        Now a regular Tyrant Lizard can add 4 bonus successes when attacking a Crashed foe for 1WP. If an Awakened Lizard has a pseudo Excellency like that, they become truly deadly.


                        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                        • Terrifying.

                          Side question: how much of that translates to Lunar Tyrant Lizards?


                          Please be warned: this is not champagne, this is most likely a duck.
                          -Chausse

                          Message me for Japanese translations.

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                          • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                            Terrifying.

                            Side question: how much of that translates to Lunar Tyrant Lizards?
                            All. Of. It.

                            More of it, even. Dex Excellency means you now hit... but Strength Excellency means you go from ~5 rounds of control to ~10 rounds. So Deadly Thrash gets +10 Decisive damage, resetting to 13i. Brutal Stomp goes up to 60L.

                            I genuinely don't think there's a DB build that can beat a starting Lunar in Tyrant Lizard form. You'd need at least 3 (eyeballing it).


                            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                            • Ah, but is the starting Lunar starting in Tyrant Lizard form? If memory serves, even their quick-change Charm doesn't let them shift into a Legendary Size creature instantly. If the Dragon-Blooded puts them on enough of a back foot while the Lunar spends their opening turn shapeshifting, can they eke out a victory then?


                              He/him

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                              • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                                Ah, but is the starting Lunar starting in Tyrant Lizard form? If memory serves, even their quick-change Charm doesn't let them shift into a Legendary Size creature instantly. If the Dragon-Blooded puts them on enough of a back foot while the Lunar spends their opening turn shapeshifting, can they eke out a victory then?
                                I hadn't thought of that. My experience with Lunars is limited. If someone wants to make the Lunar for me, I'd be happy to run the fight.


                                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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