Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Exalted: Arena

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Shapechanger View Post
    Aren't Garda Bird Essence 4 Elementals? I don't remember my Core in details, but I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be a big deal in the setting. Not quite lesser elemental dragons, but quite high in the totem pool.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of a non-combat specialized Solar killing one with only Excellency.
    I believe out of all the printed elementals only Fakharu is more powerful at Essence 6, and he’s the dragon censor of the West.

    Comment


    • I really, really want to try the starting Lunar Tyrant Lizard against an Essence 3 or so DB in a Warstrider, but I’ve been having trouble picking the right one – the Cathedral of Sublime Annihilation would be more of a referendum on Warstrider kiting, which I don’t see as the question here, Crusading Spear of the Depths is not optimized for T-Liz country (it might be interesting against an Armored Kraken Lunar?), Emerald Chevalier loses all its abilities the first time the pilot fails to disengage from from their higher-dice-capped enemy, and Godspeed Vanguard was never trying to be the machine for soloing massive threats. That leaves All-Conquering Colossus, which has almost the opposite problem: it is exactly min-maxed for this kind of matchup.

      Whilst I think about those options, however, I’m going to warm up with a simpler (read, “utterly tedious”) fight. It may not be most auspicious way to enter this thread, but the earlier comments to the effect that DBs needed Demon-Crushing Wolf Bite to face a T-Liz got me thinking about some combat experiments I did right around when What Fire Has Wrought dropped. My observation: if you have all the time in the world, even an unoptimized DB only needs the lowest-hanging Charms to win that fight pretty reliably. (Co-incidentally, this also ties in to the same "however nuts you think Excellencies are, they are probably more nuts than that" theme of the Garda Bird battle just now.)

      Our mediocre combat Terrestrial today will be the classic of the type: Cathak Drogath.

      STATS:
      Fire Aspect
      Str: 3, Dex: 4, Sta: 3, Wits: 4
      Essence: 2, Motes: 13 personal, 26 peripheral (5 committed)
      Willpower: 5, Health Levels: -0x1, -1x3, -2x3, -4x1, incap

      Athletics (rushes) 3
      Awareness (join battle) 4
      Melee (daiklaves) 4
      Resistance 1

      Attack (Jade Daiklave): 12 (+5) dice (damage 15, minimum 5)
      Decisive Attack (Melee): 9 (+5) dice
      Evasion 1, Parry 6 (+3)
      Soak: 8, Hardness: 0 (mortal Medium armor)

      Charms:
      Ox-Body Technique, Precision Observation Method, Stoking Bonfire Style, Burning Fury Wreath, Crimson Fang Bite.


      Crimson Fang Bite isn’t actually important to the outcome. I only took it for a side dish of showing what an awful waste of 1wp it is.

      Similarly, I won’t actually be tracking Anima and Aura. They shouldn’t matter – Drogath has no way to personally crash this thing short of rolling 14-16 successes on an attack, and Burning Fury Wreath only fails to get damage through Hardness 5 on an attack with no 10s – but the larger point is that another DB could do the same thing even as a different Aspect, or using some charms from a different element.

      No more putting this off. Here we go:

      JOIN BATTLE:
      Cathak Drogath spends 5m and rolls (9+5=14) dice for 8 successes.
      Tyrant Lizard spends 1wp and rolls 10 dice for 5 successes.

      ROUND 1:
      CD: 11i, 5wp, 13/21m
      TL: 10i, 6wp


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 2m on Stoking Bonfire Style. He rolls (12+2=14) dice for just 4 successes, missing.

      TL makes a Decisive claw attack. Drogath spends 6m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls 13 dice for 8 successes, missing and losing 3i.

      ROUND 2:
      CD: 11i, 5wp, 13/18m (SBS cost: -1)
      TL: 7i, 6wp


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 4m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 6 successes, hitting. He rolls 5 (overwhelming) damage dice for 1 success.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 5m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls 13 dice for 6 successes, missing.

      (By this point, Drogath has reached Bonfire and Fire Aura for the rest of the fight, but as mentioned above, those things don’t matter for our purposes.)

      ROUND 3:
      CD: 13i, 5wp, 13/14m (SBS cost: -3)
      TL: 6i, 6wp


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 2m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for a crazy 11 successes, which still leaves him at 5 damage dice (this fight is very predictable, and it takes a ton of variance to change much) for 1 damage.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 3m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls 13 dice for 6 successes, missing.

      ROUND 4:
      CD: 15i, 5wp, 13/14m (SBS cost: -5)
      TL: 5i, 6wp


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 1m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 7 successes. He rolls 5 damage dice for 6(!) successes, bringing TL to 1i.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 1m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls 13 dice for 8 successes, missing.

      ROUND 5:
      CD: 22i, 5wp, 13/17m (SBS cost: -7, but I assume that Charm costs cannot be reduced below 1 unless specified, so functionally -5)
      TL: 1i, 6wp


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 4m 1wp on Crimson Fang Bite and 1m on SBS. TL spends 1wp to raise Parry. Drogath rolls (9+5=14) dice for 6 successes, missing. He loses 3i and all his SBS discounts.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 6m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls 13 dice for 8 successes, missing.

      ROUND 6:
      CD: 19i, 4wp, 7/17m (SBS cost: -1)
      TL: 1i, 5wp


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 1wp to buy a success, and 4m on SBS. TL spends 1wp to raise Parry. Drogath rolls (9+5=14) dice for 9 successes, and rolls 19 Decisive damage dice for 8 wound levels. He resets to 3i. TL’s wound penalty rises to -1.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 5m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls 13 dice for 6 successes, missing.

      ROUND 7:
      CD: 3i, 3wp, 7/13m (SBS cost: -3)
      TL: 1i, 4wp (8lv of damage, wound penalty -1)


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 3m on Burning Fury Wreath and 2m on SBS. He rolls (9+5=14) dice for 6 successes, including two 10s (BFW ignores 4 Hardness, attack deals damage). He rolls 3 Decisive damage dice for 0 damage. He “resets” to 3i.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 3m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-1=12) dice for 7 successes, missing.

      ROUND 8:
      CD: 3i, 3wp, 7/10m (SBS cost: -5)
      TL: 1i, 4wp (8lv of damage, wound penalty -1)


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 3m on Burning Fury Wreath and 1m on SBS. He rolls (9+5=14) dice for 8 successes, including two 10s (BFW ignores 4 Hardness, attack deals damage). He rolls 3 Decisive damage dice for 2 damage. He “resets” to 3i.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 1m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-1=12) dice for 7 successes, missing.

      ROUND 9:
      CD: 3i, 3wp, 7/10m (SBS cost: “-7”)
      TL: 1i, 4wp (10lv of damage, wound penalty -1)


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 3m on Burning Fury Wreath and 1m on SBS. He rolls (9+5=14) dice for 12 successes, including three 10s (BFW ignores 5 Hardness, attack deals damage). He rolls 3 Decisive damage dice for 1 damage. He “resets” to 3i. TL’s wound penalty increases to -2.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 1m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-2=11) dice for 7 successes, missing. No, I don’t know why it always rolls exactly 7, either.

      ROUND 10:
      CD: 3i, 3wp, 7/10m (SBS cost: “-9”)
      TL: 1i, 4wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 3m on Burning Fury Wreath and 1m on SBS. He rolls (9+5=14) dice for 6 successes, including one 10 (BFW ignores 3 Hardness, attack deals damage). He rolls 3 Decisive damage dice for 1 damage. He “resets” to 3i.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 1m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-2=11) dice for 10 successes, hitting(!) for (12+1-8=5) damage, and rolls 3 successes. Drogath is Crashed.

      ROUND 11:
      CD: 0i, 3wp, 7/10m (SBS cost: -0)
      TL: 10i, 4wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      TL makes a Decisive bite attack. Drogath spends 1wp and 6m on SBS for Parry 9 (including wound penalty). TL rolls (11-2=9) dice for 4 successes, plus 1 from wp and 3 from Furious Rampage, for a total of 8, missing. TL loses 3i.

      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 5m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 8 successes, hitting. He rolls 5 (overwhelming) damage dice for 4 success.

      ROUND 12:
      CD: 5i, 2wp, 6/5m (SBS cost: -2)
      TL: 3i, 3wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 3m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 5 successes, hitting. He rolls 5 (overwhelming) damage dice for 2 success.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 4m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-2=11) dice for 5 successes, missing.

      ROUND 13:
      CD: 11i, 2wp, 2/7m (SBS cost: -4)
      TL: 1i, 3wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 1m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 9 successes, hitting. He rolls 5 (overwhelming) damage dice for 2 success.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 2m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-2=11) dice for 8 successes, missing.

      ROUND 14:
      CD: 14i, 2wp, 2/10m (SBS cost: “-6”)
      TL: 1i, 3wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 1m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 8 successes, hitting. He rolls 5 (overwhelming) damage dice for 1 success.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 1m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-2=11) dice for 7 successes, missing.

      ROUND 15:
      CD: 16i, 2wp, 7/8m (SBS cost: “-8”)
      TL: 1i, 3wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 1m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 7 successes, hitting. He rolls 5 (overwhelming) damage dice for 3 successes.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 1m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-2=11) dice for 6 successes, missing.

      ROUND 16:
      CD: 20i, 2wp, 10/8m (SBS cost: “-10”)
      TL: 1i, 3wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Withering attack, spending 1m on SBS. He rolls (12+5=17) dice for 12 successes, hitting. He rolls (15+8-15=8) damage dice for 3 successes.

      TL makes a Withering talon attack. Drogath spends 1m on SBS for Parry 9. TL rolls (13-2=11) dice for 3 successes, missing.

      ROUND 17:
      CD: 24i, 2wp, 10/11m (SBS cost: “-12”)
      TL: 1i, 3wp (11lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 1m on SBS. TL spends 1wp to boost Parry. Drogath rolls (9+5=14) dice for 9 successes, hitting. He rolls 24 Decisive damage dice for 6 wound levels. He resets to 3i.

      TL tries to disengage, spending 1wp for a success. TL rolls (7-2=5) dice for 3+1=4 successes, opposed by Drogath’s 7 dice for 5 successes. TL loses 2i, Crashing and granting Drogath the break bonus.

      ROUND 18:
      CD: 8i, 2wp, 13/8m (SBS cost: “-13”)
      TL: -1i, 1wp (17lv of damage, wound penalty -2)


      Drogath makes a Decisive attack, spending 1m on SBS. He rolls (9+5=14) dice for 4 successes, hitting. He rolls 8 Decisive damage dice for 3 wound levels. He resets to 3i, TL’s wound penalty increases to -4.

      At this point, we can (mercifully) call the fight.

      Yes, it would have taken a little longer if the Tyrant Lizard had broken from the corebook and refused to flee (seriously, is there any enemy capable of killing a Tyrant Lizard, but unable to oppose a 3-5 die disengage?), but the outcome wouldn’t likely change. It was still only a couple of rounds away from seeing its best attack drop from hitting 9% of the time to 3%. Succeeding at the disengage, meanwhile, would do almost nothing – it can’t keep winning for long, so soon it’s back in melee, still crashed.

      The outcome isn’t totally set in stone, obviously. As we saw during rounds 10 and 11, the T-Liz can still hit, and that makes a lot of things go wrong for Drogath all at once: he loses the mote discounts which allow him to keep up (and still needs to max out dice pools as much as possible to get the discounts back), he may well be crashed, and if he is, Ferocious Bite threatens deadly attacks off the break bonus alone, whilst Furious Rampage suddenly provides enough successes to be threatening.

      The problem is how inconsistent this is. Remember that the T-Liz needed 3 successes on 5 dice to get that crash, and then wanted 5 successes on 9 dice for the Decisive – in other words, even after it scores a lucky hit, it needs to win two coin flips in a row, and an unlucky damage roll could still let Drogath back into the fight. And this was deliberately not using clashes (which make it easier to maintain economy when building up Stoking Bonfire Style), or Blinding Spark Distraction to worsen TL’s attack pool yet more, or anything – so long as Burning Fury Wreath allows 3i Decisives to work, the insane economy of SBS takes care of the rest. Against an opponent who can’t reliably overcome the DB’s full excellencies, it is nigh-unbeatable.

      And that’s with my deliberately-uncharitable reading of the cost reduction! It might well be the intent that after three rounds of total dominance, full excellencies are free until something goes wrong, sparing Drogath from even needing to bother with tactics like the stalling in rounds 13-16 whilst he regained motes in case of another crash.


      "For me, there's no fundamental conflict between really loving something and also seeing it as very profoundly flawed." -- Jay Eddidin

      Comment


      • I should think that the Warstrider built to fight legendary sized foes, that is to say the All-Conquering Colossus, should be the order of the day, no?

        Or, failing that, Emerald Chevailer, as the sign of peak Dragon-Blooded power.


        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
          All I'm saying is that Excellencies are fucking awesome at making sure that if something murders your characters, it's because it's big and dangerous. Excellencies are for making sure that your Sword 2, Dexterity 2 character can be jumped in a dark alley by a bunch of punks and beat the crap out of them using an excellency and a good sword, because you're just that good.
          Solar Kang is walking along an alley one day when suddenly he grabs at his heart...

          "I... feel... myself... getting... nerfed!"

          Suddenly, his Excellencies are gone! And his Dexterity and Melee scores have been dropped to 2! And his mace has turned into a Sword!

          Five ugly looking bandits then close in on him grinning menacingly.

          Join Battle

          Kang spends willpower, flicks out his blade with a smooth movement, and shouts "Have at thee, ruffians!". He rolls 8 dice for join battle for 5 successes, plus willpower, plus base initiative for 9i.

          The bandits roll 5 dice for 6i.

          Round 1

          9i. Kang barrels into the bandits, his sword licking out right and left. He Withers for (Dex 2+Melee 2+Accuracy 2+Stunt 2) 8 dice against Parry 2, rolling 4 successes, hitting (10i).

          He rolls (12+2-7) 7 dice of damage for 3 successes, causing 3L damage.

          6i. The bandits reel back under the sudden assault, not expecting such feisty prey. The close on Kang with knives the size of short swords and attack with 7 dice. Kang grimaces, but putting on a brave face he masks his despair with a sneer as he slashes wildly from side to side, using the superior reach of his weapon to stop them from closing in with Parry (3+1) 4. The bandits roll 4 successes, hitting. They roll (12-10) Overwhelming damage of 2 for one success, a knife slipping past his guard to ring against his armor. Kang falls to 9i.

          Kang: 9i, 4WP, 13/33m
          Bandits: 6i, Magnitude 5, Size 1, Poor Drill

          Round 2

          9i. Kang desperately wants to run through the bandit who stabbed him, but decides to bide his time, taking a pace back and waiting for the bandits to come to him. Delay: 7i.

          6i. Clash. The bandits charge into the gap left by Kang, and they roll 7 dice against him for three successes.

          Kang clashes with a withing attack, his sword darting out to strike at the bandits as they close. He rolls 8 dice plus a success from Willpower for 3 successes. The ST awards the better stunt to the PC... actually, no, let's say the bandits get this one. The bandits close in on Kang, sluffing off his stabs to pin him down. They roll 2 OVW plus 3 from winning the Clash, for 5i, knocking Kang down to 2i. Kang is on the ropes!

          Kang: 2i, 3WP, 13/33m, Clash, Onslaught
          Bandits: 6i, Magnitude 5

          Round 3

          6i. The bandits stab mercilessly at our poor Solar, as he twists desperately, taking his sword by the blade to shorten the grip to defend against the slashing knives. They roll 7 dice against a Parry of (3+1-2-1) 1 for 4 successes, hitting with a threshold of 3. They roll 5 dice of Withering damage for 2i, Crashing Kang!

          0i. With an almighty roar, Kang hurls himself against his foes, kicking and punching as he brings his sword to bear. He rolls 8 dice against Parry 2 for 4 successes, hitting (1i). He rolls (12+2-7) five dice of damage for another 3L. One of the thugs is skewered and falls to the floor dead.

          Kang: 1i, 3WP, 13/33m
          Bandits: 6i, Magnitude 2

          Round 4

          6i. "You'll pay for that!" The lead thug bellows as they close in again. Kang inhales as they advance, and exhales as he strikes out with his sword in defense. They roll 7 dice against Parry 4, for three successes, missing.

          1i. As Kang slips between his assailants' blades, he hurls himself forward, kicking off from the wall of the alley behind. He parries the blade of the first thug, whilst seizing the wrist of a second. He jerks the second thug's arm into the air as he whips his blade in under the fool's armpit, slicing his heart. He rolls 8 dice plus one auto success from the level 2 stunt for 5 successes against Parry 2. Kang restores a point of Willpower from his Stunt for 4WP.

          Kang rolls (12+3-7) 8 dice of damage for a further 3L.

          The second thug goes down, his heart pierced by the Solar. With two of their number dead (and their magnitude track completely full) the thugs break and run. Kang wipes his blade clean, looks directly into the camera, and says "Who needs Excellencies anyway?"
          Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-14-2020, 06:14 AM.


          Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

          Comment


          • Eh. Point taken. Have a like.

            Comment


            • Just for funsies:

              The next day, Kang buys himself a horse and a pair of batons. He's not getting mugged again until he can find out the source of what keeps nerfing his Exalted powers. He rides through open fields when suddenly that familiar wrenching feeling in his chest starts again.

              "No... not... again... Melee score... falling to 0... Dexterity... reduced... to... 1!"

              The thug from the day before, this time with his two buddies and another seven burly looking fighters, jumps from the hedgerow. "Dex 1 Melee 0, eh? You heard him, lads! Let's kill him!"

              Join Battle

              Kang rears his horse and it kicks the air as the thugs approach, buying him a moment's thinking time. He rolls 8 dice plus Willpower to join battle for 8i.
              Thugs roll 5 dice for 5i.

              Round 1

              8i. Kang holds his ground waiting for the thugs to rush him (6i).

              5i. Clash. The thugs find their nerve and charge, rolling 7 dice for 3 successes.

              Kang digs his spurs into his horse, holding the reins between his teeth as he charges through the crowd. With true grit he strikes out left and right with both of his batons, beaning his foes as his charger races through them. The sweat of the horse's fear assails his nostrils as long knives stab at him, but Kang will be damned before a Chose of Sol falls to common brigands! He rolls (Dex 1+Melee 0+Light Weapon Accuracy 4+Paired weapons 2+Mounted 1+Stunt 2) 10 dice with 2 auto successes from a level 2 stunt and willpower for 8 successes, hitting (7i).

              Kang rolls (10+5-7) 8 dice of damage for 4 successes, plus the three from winning the clash, inflicting 6B of Magnitude damage on the brigands.

              Round 2

              7i. As Kang thunders through their ranks the brigands are shocked and dazed. This is a Dex 1, Melee 0 Solar with no Charms and no Excellency, how are they getting their butts kicked? They have Parry 2, -2 for losing a Clash, -1 for Onslaught for Parry 0. Kang rounds his horse and charges at the leader of the bandits. The fires of hell seem to burn in Kang's eye's as he rides him down, rolling (Dex 1+Stunt 2+Accuracy 4) 7 dice of Withering damage against Parry 0.

              Kang's blow hits (2 successes, 8i), and he rolls (10+2-7) 5 dice of damage for 2B.

              The magnitude track of the brigands is full. Their leader is beaten unconscious. Those who can run away, do so.

              Kang dismounts, grabs the unconscious bandit leader by the scruff of his neck, and demands answers as to what has happened to his Exalted powers.

              The bandit's eyes flutter for a moment as he looks up at Kang and says, "Git gud n00b."
              Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-14-2020, 06:12 AM.


              Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

              Comment


              • *frowns*

                *Turns away*

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                  *frowns*

                  *Turns away*
                  Exalted is a game about epic heroes.

                  The difficulty scale in 3E reflects this.

                  The Exalted literally do not roll for routine tasks, they automatically pass. They roll when they face challenging fare for heroes.

                  Their magic is based on skill, but the game world itself is based on narrative -- the more important you are to the narrative, the more powerful you are. The more you interact with the narrative, the more powerful you become. Equipment and stunting is part of how you interact with the narrative.

                  You can roll 20 dice on a Persuade action, but unless you interact with the target's Intimacies, you'd be lucky to do more than beg a couple of coins. Or you can discover a Defining Intimacy and throw 5 dice to convince the target to risk their life based on that and basically always succeed.

                  A random, faceless, thug should be a trivial opponent for the Exalted. You shouldn't even roll, or if you do, then you should beat them in a single roll.

                  But the QCs aren't mistakes -- they match up rather intelligently against each other, and against the pregenned characters in the start-up adventure. A conscript is worse than a battle-ready soldier, is worse than an elite soldier, is worse than a Blood Ape, is worse than an Immaculate of Fire, is worse than a Deathknight.

                  The game straight-up tells you that Dex 2 Melee 2 are stats appropriate for a professional soldier. A professional soldier protagonist should be able to beat up a bunch of random mooks. The results of the 2/2 vs Brigands fight is not some weird fluke -- it's the system working exactly as advertised.

                  The Exalted rules are not a physics engine for simulating a world: they're a Storytelling framework for letting your PCs be epic.

                  Your Dex 3 Larceny 0 character has a 72% chance of being able to pick the lock on a door because an epic Exalted hero shouldn't get locked in their room like a grounded child. You can remove a spleen at Difficulty 1 because you are playing an Epic, Exalted hero -- no-one wants to fail a routine roll.

                  And the rules of the game all support this. Your character will not meet an ignoble end by accident. There's a reason the Withering/Decisive split exists. There's a reason you don't get double-10s on Decisive damage rolls. There's a reason you can take a Crippling injury.

                  Exalted 2E was a game of rocket tag. Use magic or instantly die. Have magic or be completely powerless. Magic will solve your problems.

                  3E is a game of heroism. The system is specially crafted to make the players look AWESOME. An ST will not mess up and accidentally make the players fail. You will not have an accidental TPK.

                  But the problem is that whilst the native system mechanics are good, Charms blow any kind of balance to all hell.

                  And they should! That's the point of Charms!

                  Charms should let you jump over mountains, and read by feeling the ink under your fingertips, or slice down an entire army in a single swing.

                  But what people don't appreciate is exactly how capable you are without Charms. People do not realize just how epic their characters could be if they just engage with 3E's mechanics a little bit. People worry than a random, back-alley thug is going to kill them. Folks think that Manticores (the dread menace that destroys entire townships) and Sea Hags (who dominate the oceans) are serious dangers to their Characters and that they need Charms to protect themselves... but... you don't. The Exalted are awesome, all-powerful champions. Charms aren't for making a three-foot jump -- Charms are for making a thirty-foot jump. Charms aren't for fighting a manticore, they're for fighting armies of manticores.

                  You need to understand what the base competencies are for PCs. The base competencies are really high.

                  So when I say stuff like "You don't need Dex 5, Melee 5" to be awesome, I'm not lying to folks. You really don't need that. Look at the Exalted Pre-Gen Characters in Tomb of Dreams. Exalted is not built to support Dex 5, Melee 5 characters. A Dex 5 Melee 5 Dragon-Blooded PC can beat a Solar because Dex 5 Melee 5 is so far outside of how the game is designed to be played. A Young Dynast NPC is not beating Volfer or the Wandering Deathknight, but your maxed-out PC is.

                  And once you know how the system works - what you do and do not need charms for, what kind of opposition PCs can fight - then you can make informed statements on how to make the game easier to run or more fun.

                  But you need to understand how 3E works. Not how you imagine Exalted to work. Not how you'd like Exalted to work. Not how 2E used to work. How the game actually works now.

                  And you can't get that understanding from a forum. Theory-crafting only gets you so far -- you have to play. You have to roll the dice. You have to have other people interact with you, and surprise you by doing the unexpected. You have to try out new things.

                  If you don't do that, it's easy to run the dice probabilities and just call for bigger numbers. But if you yield to that, you destroy all of the game balance that exists.

                  If you want interesting combats, a dynamic back and forth, you need lower numbers, not higher ones.

                  (Now run those thugs with a separate leader giving orders to the battlegroup, give them average drill, spend willpower, maybe throw on a hunting dog, and Dex 3, Melee 3 with Excellency is going to struggle -- not lose but struggle. Run those ten thugs as ten individual bandits, and the Exalt will lose. 3E gives you a lot of narrative space to work in mechanically -- I can construct an encounter practically to the mote. But you're not going to get that level of system mastery from not playing, or playing but solving every problem with a full excellency. You have to engage with the system.)
                  Last edited by JohnDoe244; 11-14-2020, 09:30 AM.


                  Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                  Comment


                  • Ok Essence 3 Solar with minimal combat charms:

                    Peace:

                    12 dice for rolling join battle (with excellency)
                    Awareness charms: Sensory acuity prana, double 9s.

                    Sorcerously-touched soldier:
                    Fast reflexes

                    9 dice for rolling join battle:

                    Start:
                    Peace: 4 6 3 6 4 3 9 9 1 10 3 5

                    Double 9s, so....
                    4 successes +3 more due to sensory acuity prana
                    = 7 successes total

                    (wtf 4 successes on 12 dice?)

                    Sorcerously touched soldier:
                    10 9 7 5 7 5 5 3 8 10

                    8 succeses

                    So by this standard, Peace gains 10 initiative in battle, while the sorcerous soldier gets 11 initiative. In other words, the soldier has the advantage at first. Anything wrong with this?

                    edit:
                    This is the dice roller used:
                    https://test.jneff.corp.he.net/v3roller_shiny.html

                    I may need a new one. I just got 10 succeses on 12 dice.
                    Last edited by Accelerator; 11-15-2020, 03:46 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chejop Kejak View Post
                      Drogath goes monster hunting
                      Always nice to see Drogath. Man that must have been a slog to run - thanks for taking the time to write it up and post it.

                      We've been playing it that the SBS discount does go all the way to 0, this post is in the Ask the Devs thread seems to agree with that (not by a dev but it wasn't refuted by Vance et al) but certainly get where you're coming from on that: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...10#post1208010

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                        Peace:

                        12 dice for rolling join battle (with excellency)
                        Awareness charms: Sensory acuity prana, double 9s.

                        Sorcerously-touched soldier:
                        Fast reflexes

                        9 dice for rolling join battle:

                        Start:
                        Peace: 4 6 3 6 4 3 9 9 1 10 3 5

                        Double 9s, so....
                        4 successes +3 more due to sensory acuity prana
                        = 7 successes total

                        (wtf 4 successes on 12 dice?)

                        Sorcerously touched soldier:
                        10 9 7 5 7 5 5 3 8 10

                        8 succeses

                        So by this standard, Peace gains 10 initiative in battle, while the sorcerous soldier gets 11 initiative. In other words, the soldier has the advantage at first. Anything wrong with this?
                        I make Peace with only 6 successes total and thus 9i if you're doubling 9s, but otherwise you're good to go.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Moss Reynholm View Post

                          I make Peace with only 6 successes total and thus 9i if you're doubling 9s, but otherwise you're good to go.
                          Yes, I think I get it.

                          Now as far as I can tell join battle here is just.. how good you are and who has the upper hand. For all intents and purposes, both sides roll their attacks at the same time, right?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Accelerator View Post
                            Yes, I think I get it.

                            Now as far as I can tell join battle here is just.. how good you are and who has the upper hand. For all intents and purposes, both sides roll their attacks at the same time, right?
                            You go in initiative sequence, join battle just decides who is in the ascendancy right at the start - so here the soldier gets to decide what he wants to do first, the results of that are then applied and then Peace gets to go, then the round ends and you go again.

                            So, if the soldier, say, acts first and inflicts a wound penalty in peace in his first round, that penalty is applied to Peace's attack that round.

                            Clashes are maybe what you're thinking of as attacks happening simultaneously, but they'd only happen here if the soldier delays his action (see page 202 of core).

                            Sorry, that may not be the clearest way of saying that but I'm feeling especially dense this morning...

                            If still unclear and you've not seen it before, this walkthrough is highly recommended: http://exalted3e.wikidot.com/ess:combat-301
                            Last edited by Moss Reynholm; 11-15-2020, 04:16 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Oh no, it's ok. Sorry, I'm currently struggling through a food coma...

                              edit: Again!

                              Sorcerous soldier:

                              10 dice, fast reflexes
                              11 dice

                              1 7 6 5 2 3 8 7 4 1 3

                              3 successes, with an expenditure of willpower to get 4 successes

                              Initiative is 7

                              Peace:

                              16 dice, with fast reflexes and a willpower expenditure, and sensory acuity prana and Unsurpassed sight discipline


                              1 5 10 2 2 2 5 5 2 10 2 1 1 5 5 3 5

                              4 successes, with a willpower expenditure to get 5.

                              Initiative is 8.

                              Ok what the hell why didn't the addition of an extra charm change anything?

                              Using a different roller:

                              Sorcerous soldier:

                              2,1,6,7,10,5,7,3,5,4

                              3 successes, with 4 due to willpower

                              Peace:

                              4,1,5,5,4,3,4,3,2,5,3,2,1,2,4,2.

                              5 successes, 6 due to willpower expenditure
                              Last edited by Accelerator; 11-15-2020, 04:27 AM.

                              Comment


                              • retreading an idea I had earlier, can the strongest published Dragonblood defeat an optimized Lunar Tyrant Lizard at chargen?
                                Last edited by Sorcerous Overlord; 11-15-2020, 08:11 AM.


                                Please be warned: this is not champagne, this is most likely a duck.
                                -Chausse

                                Message me for Japanese translations.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X