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  • Yeah, Simple Charms are also good. In a teamfight, it sometimes makes sense to Full Defense whilst your allies advance their portions of the battle, but that's obviously a losing plan one-on-one. Disengage, if you need an action which still makes them spend motes twice this round. If you're leading a Battlegroup, maybe try Rally For Numbers (ugh, that name), but I'm less sure of that, since I wouldn't let someone clash a BG unless they had a Charm which explicitly allowed that.

    Mostly, just never attack into it unless you're REALLY sure that you have the advantage - they've already spent resources trying to force you to do that.


    "For me, there's no fundamental conflict between really loving something and also seeing it as very profoundly flawed." -- Jay Eddidin

    Comment


    • Actually, having slept on it, the dramatic thing to do is probably social influence.

      Your foe is there, waiting for you to attack. They're not attacking until you do. Their advantage in this combat is steadily bleeding away. Now is the time to try and talk them down.
      Last edited by JohnDoe244; 12-30-2020, 05:18 AM.


      Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

      Comment


      • Plus, mechanically speaking, lots of strong combat characters a Resolve of around 4 (6-7 with excellencies), and if you win with a Threaten action or the like, they'll have to spend WP.

        Not a bad idea.


        "For me, there's no fundamental conflict between really loving something and also seeing it as very profoundly flawed." -- Jay Eddidin

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
          You've done the worst thing I could possibly imagine: now I want to run a game for this character.

          What's her name?
          Not if I do it first!



          It's late summer afternoon in the village, the farmers who've come in that day have mostly unloaded their hauls and are now milling about socializing. Heriat is herself looking to pick up some pulleys to use as torque converters. This is when a large group of men walk into town, 30 or more, they're armed and armoured, and their leader bears the wicked scar of deadly combat on his face. They tell everyone there is a new king, a king in the forest, and he demands fealty. Everyone must offer up a token of tribute to prove this. Heriat hops up on her horse, Checkerbloom, and trots over. She tells them there's only one king collecting taxes, and nobody here is going to get grifted by some common thugs, to emphasize the point she draws her spear.

          Size 2 battlegroup of medium infantry and a brigand leader


          Soldiers roll in with 5i
          Their leader 7i
          Heriat spends 4m peripheral to get 10i



          Round 1
          =============
          Heriat sweeps forward and strikes down a decisive blow against the leader, using 3m to excellent strike and 1m for an excellency. Rolling 10 dice+1 for only 3 even after the rerolls, missing!

          Soldiers 5i
          Leader 7i
          Heriat 8i 13per 25iph

          -----------
          The leader orders his men to get her in an engage action, rolling 7 dice for 2 successes.

          -----------
          The brigands attack with an intent to engage with 10 dice, Heriat spends 4m to raise her parry to 8, but can't think up a good stunt. They miss with 5 successes

          Soldiers 2i
          Leader 7i
          Heriat 8i 13per 21iph

          Round 2
          =============

          Soldiers 2i
          Leader 7i
          Heriat 8i 13per 26iph


          Heriat tries to decisive gain, with the same stuff, this time hitting easily, and rolling 3L damage

          Soldiers 2i
          Leader 7i 3L(-1)
          Heriat 3i 13per 22iph

          -----------
          Soldiers leader will give them another order, don't engage, cut her down! She's just a little girl! This time getting 3 successes.

          -----------
          Soldiers will attack with their long spears, negating the mounted bonus, and roll 10 dice. Heriat will spend 4m and stunt to increase her parry to 8. They miss again with only 4 successes

          Soldiers 2i
          Leader 7i 3L(-1)
          Heriat 3i 13per 18iph

          Round 3
          =============

          Soldiers 2i
          Leader 7i 3L(-1)
          Heriat 3i 13per 23iph


          Fine! I'll do it myself! The leader yells, swinging his axe at Heriat in a decisive strike, who will spend another 4 motes and stunt. Rolling 8 dice gives the commander 5 successes, missing again.

          Soldiers 2i
          Leader 5i 3L(-1)
          Heriat 3i 13per 23iph

          -----------
          Heriat will now act, throwing a withering strike at the leader with Excellent Strike, rolling 11+1 dice for 10 after rerolling two 1s into a 7 and a 10!

          Then rolling 10 damage for 8, easily crashing the leader.

          Soldiers 2i
          Leader -3i 3L(-1) -1 Onslaught
          Heriat 17i 13per 20iph


          Now Heriat will use 3m to One Weapon Two Blows, and attack him with a decisive strike, hitting easily and dealing 6 damage and evicerating the leader. The battlegroup breaks and flees at this ultimate display.

          Soldiers 2i Fledd
          Leader -3i Dedd
          Heriat 17i 13per 17iph Ahedd


          With that Heriat is left to wonder what on the plane that was all about, as the soldiers flee they call back that she'll be sorry. She tells them to stay out and sits back down to the cheers and applause of everyone present. She doesn't have to wonder for long though, only an hour later she hears screams coming from the edge of the village. She rides out quickly to them and finds a monstrocity. Some horrible amalgam of man, lion and scorpion stalks forward, growling about tribute to its grand self. Heriat walks out to meet it, and asks what right it has to tribute from these people. It tells her that it is in need of a champion, one as powerful as her, and that she could now offer herself as tribute or be slain here. Against this threaten roll she brings her intimacy to the village to bear, giving her a resolve of 7, Five successes fail to convince her with the threat, so she prepares to spear it.



          Manticore 10i
          Heriat 8i 13per 27iph


          Round 1
          ===========
          The manticore will attempt a grapple gambit, Heriat will spend 6m from her personal and use a willpower to raise her parry to 10 with a stunt, with 11 dice and a willpower the manticore misses with 8 successes.

          Rolling 10 dice confirms the grapple.

          Manticore 8i
          Heriat 8i 7per 23iph

          ---------------
          Heriat will attack back using an excellent strike, and 4m excellency from per personal pool. Rolling 15+1 dice for a total of 6. Rolling 5 damage for only 2.

          Manticore 6i -1 onslaught
          Heriat 11i 0per 23iph

          Round 2
          ===========
          Manticore 6i
          Heriat 11i 0per 28iph

          Deciding she needs to get an advantage fast Heriat strikes with a decisive, spending to excellent strike and full excellency agian, sending her castemark glittering. Manticore will stunt defense and use a willpower, hissing Solar!

          Rolling 13 dice for 9 after rerolls, hitting easily. Then rolling 11 damage for 4L


          Manticore 6i 4L(-1) -2 Onslaught
          Heriat 3i 0per 21iph

          ---------------
          The Manticore will attack, with a withering 12 dice, just wanting to crash Heriat, who will defend with a 6m excellency and stunt. Rolling 13 dice for 4 and missing terribly. Her anima is now glowing.

          Manticore 6i 4L(-1)
          Heriat 3i 0per 15iph -1 onslaught

          Round 3
          ===========

          The Manticore will attack, with a withering 14 dice, again just wanting to crash Heriat and stunting this time, also spending a willpower and dipping swallow, who will defend with a 6m excellency and stunt and willpower. Rolling 13 dice for 4 and missing terribly. Her anima is now blazing.

          Again another miss, although just barely with 9 successes


          Manticore 6i 4L(-1)
          Heriat 3i 0per 7iph -2 Onslaught

          ---------------
          Heriat will attack with Excellent Strike, withering and rolling 9 dice for an amazing 9 successes against the willpower boosted defense of 5. Then rolling 9 damage for 3.

          Manticore 3i 4L(-1) -1 Onslaught
          Heriat 7i 0per 4iph

          Heriat will pay 3m for One Weapon Two Blows and wither again. Rolling 11 dice for 4 and hitting. Then rolling 5 damage for only one

          Manticore 2i 4L(-1) -2 Onslaught
          Heriat 9i 0per 1iph

          Round 4
          ===========
          Manticore 2i 4L(-1) -2 Onslaught
          Heriat 9i 0per 6iph

          Heriat will go for a decisive attack, rolling 8 dice for 6, hitting easily and then hammering 9 damage for 3, putting the manticore into -2s


          Manticore 2i 3L(-2) -3 Onslaught
          Heriat 4i 0per 6iph

          ---------------
          The manticore lashes out with one last ditch effort, stunting and rolling 13 dice and spending a willpower on a withering claw, Heriat will use a 6m excellency and a willpower as well. Rolling 8 total successes it misses

          Manticore 2i 3L(-2)
          Heriat 4i 0per 0iph

          Round 5
          ===========
          Manticore -4i 3L(-2)
          Heriat 16i 0per 5iph

          Heriat will launch a withering attack, rolling 11 dice for 6 and hitting, and then rolling 8 for 6 damage, crashing the manticore

          Manticore -4i 3L(-2)
          Heriat 16i 0per 5iph
          ---------------

          The manticore attempts one more claw, stunting for 13 dice against Heriat's boosted 8 parry, and rolling an amazing 10, hitting by two. Rolling 10 damage dice for four, not quite getting out of crash, still a chance for initiative shift.

          Manticore 0i 3L(-2)
          Heriat 12i 0per 1iph

          Round 6
          ===========

          Manticore 0i 3L(-2)
          Heriat 12i 0per 6iph

          Heriat launches a decisive with excellent strike, rolling 5 successes and hitting, and then 7 damage, slaying the monster dead at last.



          She couldn't do it without causing her anima to flare up, she's now a burning pillar of unholy light in front of her entire town, but that monster is dead.



          Soon she's going to pick up a daiklave, an elegant weapon of a bygone golden age. She's also considering investing in some armor because that fight against the manticore was legit tense. If that first grapple had hit I think she would have lost that fight.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
            Soon she's going to pick up a daiklave, an elegant weapon of a bygone golden age. She's also considering investing in some armor because that fight against the manticore was legit tense. If that first grapple had hit I think she would have lost that fight.
            Haha.'Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match against a good crossbow at your side kid'

            Comment


            • Forgive me if this has been asked before: who is the better grappler? E1 Solar vs E1 Lunar.

              Round 1: no sorcery, no artifacts, no hearthstones, no demons or battlegroups etc. Lunar can shapeshift. 1 on 1 fight.

              Round 2: Artifacts, Sorcery, Hearthstones ok. Lunar can still shapeshift. No BGs or demons, 1 on 1.
              Last edited by Sorcerous Overlord; 03-18-2021, 10:52 PM.


              Please be warned: this is not champagne, this is most likely a duck.
              -Chausse

              Message me for Japanese translations.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                Forgive me if this has been asked before: who is the better grappler? E1 Solar vs E1 Lunar.

                Round 1: no sorcery, no artifacts, no hearthstones, no demons or battlegroups etc. Lunar can shapeshift. 1 on 1 fight.

                Round 2: Artifacts, Sorcery, Hearthstones ok. Lunar can still shapeshift. No BGs or demons, 1 on 1.
                Warstriders included in artifacts?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                  Forgive me if this has been asked before: who is the better grappler? E1 Solar vs E1 Lunar.

                  Round 1: no sorcery, no artifacts, no hearthstones, no demons or battlegroups etc. Lunar can shapeshift. 1 on 1 fight.

                  Round 2: Artifacts, Sorcery, Hearthstones ok. Lunar can still shapeshift. No BGs or demons, 1 on 1.
                  I don't think there's much of a question here. An Essence 1 Solar has access to Essence 5 Solar Brawl/MA charms. Which means stuff like Titan-Straigtening Method, which lets you sacrifice all your rounds of control to make that many withering attacks in a row, right away, and then once those attacks crash the Lunar Raging Wrath Repeated triggers and refunds all of the expended rounds of control to the Solar and also resets their combat action, which they can then use in combination with Crashing Wave Throw to boost the damage further, and also force them to contend with falling damage, that charm itself chains into Lightning Strikes Twice, allowing them to bounce off the surface they just took fall damage from, right BACK into the Solar's waiting arms and causes their initiative not to reset from that previous combo, letting them make another grapple roll to grab them and launch into ANOTHER Crashing Wave Throw, with another round of falling damage.

                  Also they have a charm in Brawl that says even if they go second in the combat actually they go first anyway.

                  Now Lunars have cool shit that can slay almost anything. They have cool grapple charms that do awesome stuff too, but Winding Constrictor Coils is Essence 2, Foe-Pinning Strike is Essence 3, and so is Jaws of the River Dragon. At Essence 1 they can get Legendary Size, which lets them become a creature so massive that straight up you do not get a roll to oppose their grapple, they just win, and the only question is by how much.


                  Except against Solars, because Dragon Coil Technique wags its finger at that and says "no-no, I do get to roll anyway, and I get bonus auto successes on the attack and control roll, and all your 10s count as successes for me as well as you. This is a 3m charm."

                  Comment


                  • Depends on the level of investment. I could see a Lunar with only one Charm beating out a Solar with only one Charm.

                    A Physical Tertiary No Moon is probably a better grappler than a Physical Tertiary Twilight. ("I turn into a Sky Titan." Makes you the best at a surprising number of things.)

                    But there's no way a Supernal Brawl Solar loses to an Essence 1 Lunar.


                    Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                    Comment


                    • But there's no way a Supernal Brawl Solar loses to an Essence 1 Lunar.
                      I agree that the Solar would probably win in most cases, but I still don’t know that I’d say “no way.” She could, for instance, trick the Solar into wasting his once-per-scenes and a shit-ton of motes attacking an illusory double, or one of his own allies.


                      He/him

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                        I agree that the Solar would probably win in most cases, but I still don’t know that I’d say “no way.” She could, for instance, trick the Solar into wasting his once-per-scenes and a shit-ton of motes attacking an illusory double, or one of his own allies.
                        And the Solar could roll all 3s whilst the Lunar rolls all 9s. On every die for every roll.

                        Likewise the OP only specified Essence 1. A starting character Solar built with Brawl 1 vs an Essence 1 Lunar who has spent 1000 Lunar Experience is going to go to the Lunar.

                        There's an outside chance of an invested Lunar Grappler causing an upset.

                        My use of "no way" was hyperbolic.

                        But even with Lunar trickery, I don't see how a starting character Lunar could reliably beat a starting character Solar at brawling if they both have equal investment.


                        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                        Comment


                        • Bottom line, you’re matching a character with full access to all the Solar grapple charms, against one with access to maybe a third of the Lunar ones, and in general the Solar ones are better on top of that. It’s basically a fools errand to try and match an equally invested Solar in something they’re good at.

                          Just like it’s likewise a fools errand to try and match the versatility of a Lunar who maxed out their form library with merit dots. You’ll spend every charm and bonus point you have on the melee/archery/mobility/stealth/survival/etc. charms to try and match them and still fall hopelessly short.

                          Comment


                          • Ok, thanks.

                            When would the outcome be close to 50/50? Like say at E3 or E5.
                            Last edited by Sorcerous Overlord; 03-19-2021, 10:17 AM.


                            Please be warned: this is not champagne, this is most likely a duck.
                            -Chausse

                            Message me for Japanese translations.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                              Ok, thanks.

                              When would the outcome be close to 50/50? Like say at E3 or E5.
                              Difficult to say, my best guess would be closest at Essence 2. The thing is when you get to Essence 5 the Lunar does have all of their tricks, finally, but also you’ve got things like Dragon Coil, which adds (Essence) automatic successes to both the attack and control roll of a grapple, and getting opponents successes and letting you grapple legendary sized things. Which at Essence 5 basically equates to getting 25+ motes worth out of a 3 mote charm.

                              I might run a fight at Essence 2 though, where most of the lunar tricks are working but the Solar (Essence) abilities haven’t become stupid good yet.

                              Really though you just don’t beat Solars at their thing. Tonight I’ll also do up a list of why Solars can’t compete with Lunars at their thing either though.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                                I did specifically address this. But if you want concrete advice:

                                Take a 5 in your Supernal.
                                Take a 3 in everything you are exceptionally good at.
                                Take a 2 in everything you are good at.
                                Take a 1 in anything you are vaguely interested in.

                                If you don't meet the Charm minimums, don't buy the Charm.
                                Funnily enough, some versions of Shining Topaz that I've run in the thread fit this criteria.

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