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How are people feeling about where Lunars are at, Power Wise?

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  • How are people feeling about where Lunars are at, Power Wise?

    I for one think it’s perfect, I’ve always been a Lunars fan and this Charmset just gets the fear you feel vs an apex predator just right.

    Vs Mortals:
    I put this in just to say as a Mortal in Exalted, in the top 3 most scary things out there would be the face stealing witches who can level cities.

    Vs Dragonblooded
    I’m very glad about how this turned out (Thanks DrLoveMonkey!) It isn’t a walkover by any means but Lunars have seemingly overwhelming strength vs any one Dragonblooded. It’s a good place.

    Vs Solars
    Ah, the crown jewel here. Solars have better focused charms and Lunars have more varied... well everything, but what I’ve noticed is that neither of these effects is greater, on balance, than the dice rolling slightly your way. I really like the balance here.

    So what are your thoughts, fellow fans?
    Last edited by prototype00; 04-18-2019, 12:47 AM.

  • #2
    Seems fine to me.

    I've only played a Lunar for 5 sessions, so it's difficult to tell. But in the one short fight I got an Initiative of 22, so they certainly don't seem weak.

    Generally, I find their charms to be slightly weaker, but more interesting, than Solar charms. Though tbh, I find the Lunar charms better designed (advantages of more experience from the writers, I guess, and probably the fact that Vance has spent 2 years answering rules questions on this forum, so he can see what people find confusing), which at times can make them feel stronger. I don't think they are though, there's some Solar effects which blow Lunar charms away in raw power.

    Anyway, I prefer the Lunar charmset, but I think Solars are still a bit more powerful. Not massively though.
    Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 04-17-2019, 07:16 AM.


    My characters:
    Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
    Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

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    • #3
      Comparing Lunar and Solar charms the impression I have is that Solar charms are more powerful or efficient when they have a similar Lunar charm with which to compare. Not by much but it is present.
      However, the Lunars are more versatile. While a Solar dominates their chosen field it is much easier for a Lunar, with little effort, to extend its capabilities to multiple fields and its charms can be used with more flexibly than the Solar charms. A Melee charm can only be used with Melee, a Dexterity charm can be used for remote attacks, disarmed or in melee for the simplest example. Specialization against flexibility.

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      • #4
        I think Lunar power strikes a nice balance between being among the strongest people in the setting, and being very focused within their own scale. They look as though they could reasonably hold their own against a Solar of similar development in direct competition, while at the same time it being clear that Solars are capable of feats of legend the likes of which have been scarcely seen for a thousand years.

        Also very nice that each Caste has a firmly defined concept that is strongly represented across their Attributes. Their social suite in particular feels very sophisticated at the same time as it's quite different from that of Solars.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
        https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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        • #5
          One thing I really like is that while the lunar charm cap may Technically be weaker than the solar, it’s not hard to make it comparable (like, a sentence of sensemake description), and actually easier to get quite large dice pools more frequently.

          Having 5 in wits or perception would be an enormous boon in that regard, not hard to justify them being relevant on a Lot of rolls.

          All of which means that strictly speaking, solars are the top of their field. But lunars can equal or exceed them in any number of cases.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by prototype00 View Post

            Vs Solars

            Ah, the crown jewel here. Solars have better focused charms and Lunars have more varied... well everything, but what I’ve noticed is that neither of these effects is greater, on balance, than the dice rolling slightly your way. I really like the balance here.

            So what are your thoughts, fellow fans?
            I enjoyed this, in particular. Especially now that there's this War of Sun and Moon note in the historical record. The notion that that war 'could' have gone either way really makes me feel pumped, and the mechanics should show that.



            I used to know things. Forbidden things.

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            • #7
              I just started playing a Lunar and I’m really enjoying it. With a Solar, I felt pressured towards building someone who is the best in the world in one or two areas and only minimally useful outside of that.

              My Lunar has many abilities rated at 1, but, because I have several attributes at 5 and 7 of the 9 exellencies, I can easily throw 10 to 16 dice at any problem I might face. So, I feel amazingly flexible. The real question is whether my essence supply will hold out.


              ....

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              • #8
                I actually think it's too early to say, for me anyway. Let me run a few more arena combats and finish my review. My initial impression is that they're in a really great place though. They're absolutely terrifying, without being totally overwhelming. Leviathan can destroy an army, but if he faced off, alone, against a squad of the most elite and powerful Dragonblooded in the Dynasty he might be in trouble. Not definitely going to lose. certainly, just maybe farther from safe than he'd prefer.

                That's just for power though, their fun factor is awesome.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by prototype00 View Post

                  Vs Solars
                  Ah, the crown jewel here. Solars have better focused charms and Lunars have more varied... well everything, but what I’ve noticed is that neither of these effects is greater, on balance, than the dice rolling slightly your way. I really like the balance here.
                  More than this, I think it's good for how Lunar Attributes contain particular modes and methodologies that give them particular strengths they can play to that can maximize the pressure they apply; the addition to that of their shapeshifting isn't even strictly necessary, but can add an extra layer.

                  I feel as though a Lunar wants to fight a Solar in about the way that the Silver Pact fights the Realm; don't come at them direct to slug power with power, hit them obtusely with things that mess up the Solar's advantages or layer a number of weaknesses on them, present varied defences that can turn some of their power back on them (or feed it into yourself), hit them with things that they're weaker at (a Brawl or Melee Solar still has some recourse at range, but they're still disadvantaged where you can apply investment into close-quarters fighting to that as well), and periodically assume shapes that let you fall back (while staying in the fight) to come again from a different angle.

                  I think that even if a not so powerful Lunar was up against a Solar invested in all the Abilities that could match these options, one that is canny can apply at least enough pressure to bloody their nose a bit, which lends itself to the matter of setting realistic expectations of how much damage to deliver before retreating. Killing such a person might present a challenge in the long term, especially for the Lunar who insists on doing it as a fight, but I think it might be doable.

                  Still, in the setting as it is, it's going to be a while before any Solars are that powerful; for the moment, any theoretical Lunars in the reasonable range of Essence 1 to 3 are up against Solars with a Supernal Ability and probably Essence 2 at best. I'd say that's a lot more doable.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                  • #10
                    Unqualified to assess, mostly! Of the three in OP, the only one I would have any question about (and only from DrLoveMonkey's thread, which is far from a massive consensus, though he's really put the work in and it's a quality thread) is vs Dragonblooded, and that seems more like a question of DB scaling (with exp) generally maybe not being where I'd expect vs Celestials rather than saying anything about the Lunar side of the house. Even that doesn't really matter so much, if it doesn't breach anything that makes the setting obviously not make sense, and may be dependent on my assumption of frequency of high Essence DB (if they're as infrequent as I think they are and have low probability of doing much against Lunars, then that's different from if the probabilities are about the same but they're more frequent).

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                    • #11
                      First I really like how incredibly powerfull shapeshifting is compared to how sad it was in 2e.

                      For charms they're a bit weaker but a bit more versatile than Solars (though in areas where the shapeshifting really helps they can probably in some ways outmatch them) which i feel is where they should be, but without feeling like just nerfed Solar charms which is nice. There's more flavour and more pushing you towards doing things 'the lunar way' than there is with Solar charms.

                      One thing I definitely like for combat balance is that Lunars seem comparatively better at dealing withering damage but worse at dealing decisive damage than Solars. The lack of a Thunderbolt Attack Prana is very welcome.

                      The core combat system in 3e sets up a nice pacing for combat with building up initiative and then finishing people of with decisive attacks, but I've felt the way the Solar combat charms work with not that much in the way of withering buffs combined with incredibly powerfull decisive charms leads to big decisive attacks from join battle being too prevalent.
                      Last edited by limaxophobiac; 04-18-2019, 06:41 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Hmmm... that's interesting. But I can see where you're coming from there.


                        My characters:
                        Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                        Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

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                        • #13
                          Couple things that seem to be missing from the charms are ones for moving real fast(other than jumping) not requiring sleep or food. Mainly for reasons of long distance traveling. Guess one could do such things with stamina and dexterity excellencies, but that requires bit of st and rules wrangling.

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                          • #14
                            Monarch-Wing Migration. It doubles your overland movement, and that of Essence x2 companions.

                            The upgrade improves it to triple, quadruple, or at Essence 5 quintuple your normal speed.

                            Now, admittedly, that doesn't look that hot compared to the Solar ride charm that makes you 7 times faster.

                            But a)most Lunars can turn into birds, and fly hundreds of miles a day anyway
                            and b)the fact that you trade-off increased speed for letting you take your friends with you is actually good for the game, because it means PCs don't get left behind.


                            My characters:
                            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It took me this long to realise the mythic connotations of Lunar stealth powers involving being thieves of light.

                              Originally posted by Asoral View Post
                              Couple things that seem to be missing from the charms are ones for moving real fast(other than jumping)
                              But do you miss it?

                              Originally posted by Asoral
                              not requiring [...] food.
                              Why eat nothing when you can eat anything?


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                              Comment

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