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  • Opinions on DB 3e

    So, I just got my tax refund, so I ordered the hardback DB 3e book and shelled out the extra $5 for the PDF because it was cheaper than overnight delivery. I got to say, I like what I see, and I was sort of cautious after the 3e corebook due to things like the craft system. So, what do you all think of the DB 3e book?

    One of things that I like is the competency of the DBs in 3e. While Solars start at Essence 1, DBs start at Essence 2, so every beginning DB is going to have a slight edge over a beginning Solar. In addition, they have equal attributes and do not suffer from any particular penalties traitwise. I would honestly be hesitant to send a party of 5 beginning Solars up against a party of 5 beginning DBs, as there is a legitimate chance that the DBs would kill two or three of them before they were killed off. What about you? What do you like about DBs in 3e?

  • #2

    Originally posted by The Fool of Creation View Post
    So, I just got my tax refund, so I ordered the hardback DB 3e book and shelled out the extra $5 for the PDF because it was cheaper than overnight delivery. I got to say, I like what I see, and I was sort of cautious after the 3e corebook due to things like the craft system. So, what do you all think of the DB 3e book?

    One of things that I like is the competency of the DBs in 3e. While Solars start at Essence 1, DBs start at Essence 2, so every beginning DB is going to have a slight edge over a beginning Solar. In addition, they have equal attributes and do not suffer from any particular penalties traitwise. I would honestly be hesitant to send a party of 5 beginning Solars up against a party of 5 beginning DBs, as there is a legitimate chance that the DBs would kill two or three of them before they were killed off. What about you? What do you like about DBs in 3e?
    Dragon-blooded don't have supernal moreover their offensive charms are much better than their practically non-existent defensive charms. All this means is that while they can inflict damage they don't have any means to defend against damage that solars put out. Their best options utilize very crappy methods and out of element auras. There's no way a supernal solar is ever going to let a dragon blooded utilize anything from dodge or melee because they'll just reroll their ones and essentially prevent dragon blooded from taking advantage of that. If they even roll ones. In effect, dragon blooded will take out non-combat focused solars but have a massive issue going up against anyone who has specialized in combat trees.

    Which is really lame tbh for exalts even if they are the weakest of them.

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    • #3
      I actually wrote an entire thread about this topic of Solars vs DBs. If you're comparing direct combat power with charms, then a low essence Solar with Supernal combat is going to beat all but the most powerful DBs, and even then they stand a really good chance of winning, probably better than half, unless the DB has like 6 ox-bodies.

      On the other hand there's lots of other factors to consider, a starting Solar who isn't combat supernal, even if they invest in combat charms, is barely better than a starting DB who's done the same. The only advantage the Solar has is dicecaps really, and they don't so much have the motepools to back it up. I do agree with you though that 5v5 with only one Dawn on the Solar side might be a bad day for those Solars.

      Also, the real power of the Dragonblooded character sheet is not in their charms at all. It's their merits. A Dynast can have nearly limitless wealth, an army, network of spies, and young DB bodyguards without even breaking a sweat on the mertit front. The 'real' battle that a DB is going to win starts when the Solar stumbles into her throneroom, poisoned, bleeding, exhausted, and then the DB snaps her fingers to her servant to bring her daiklave, and says "Oh good, you're finally here. I thought you'd be faster to be honest." and then she charges him flanked by a strike force of Immaculate monks.


      So that's one thing that I really like about DBs. I also like how their lower power lets them interact with the system/setting a little bit more. Like with my Solar group I got to the point where I didn't even use Bloodapes unless they were magically enhanced and placed in a big battlegroup, it just wasn't worth busting out the dice for such a forgone conclusion where the PCs are never even hit by a withering attack. With DBs I think that'll be much less of an issue.

      I also really like how few of their charms just do things that add dice or successes, and actually enable you to do cool new things, like redirect an enemy's attack, harnessing a forest fire to do your bidding, or simply fly.

      Their fluff is really great now too, the Great Houses have lots of personality, all unique and each of them feels so large and powerful that an entire campaign could be set with just one Great House as the villain. Or if you're playing as DBs uniting them all to your cause is a herculean task, worthy of PCs.

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      • #4
        Yeah I agree with DrLovemonkey, for a Dragon-Blooded, their strengths don't come with their elemental Charms, which while can be strong, lack the potency that the Celestials. Rather their strengths is the society that has been built around them, they are a society of Exalted built by Exalted that supports said Exalted, something no other has thus makes them unique. Not like the other Exalts can't have support structures, like the Sidereals and Abyssals, but theres can bring limits to what they give(well so does DBs, but compared to being seen as an enemy to all creation or having your identity wiped off its face it can be seen as negligible). A DB elemental prowess is at its best not when they try to use it as is, but when they have backing of the world besides them. They are the most loved by Creation out of all the Exalts, thus you need to show that. Numbers play into a DBs advantage, and numbers they can get easy, why need to build it up from scratch when its already at you fingertips?


        .

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        • #5
          I definately agree. I am curious, why did they change the nature of DB excellencies from the core 3e to DB 3e? It is easy enough to flip back, but I was curious why they did so.
          Last edited by The Fool of Creation; 04-18-2019, 12:08 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Fool of Creation View Post
            I definately agree. I am curious, why did they change the nature of DB excellencies from the core 3e to DB 3e? It is easy enough to flip back, but I was curious why they did so.
            Same reason they nerfed dragon blooded using Martial arts at a celestial level.

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            • #7
              I think to make it more varied and interesting, now you have stuff like auto successes for stuff alongside with other neat benefits, this makes it interesting since dis have to buy their excellencies.


              .

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              • #8
                Originally posted by The Fool of Creation View Post
                I definately agree. I am curious, why did they change the nature of DB excellencies from the core 3e to DB 3e? It is easy enough to flip back, but I was curious why they did so.
                The core book had a generic "add charm dice to rolled actions and may also pay willpower to reroll failed extra dice". (Note: it only mentioned rolls, not static values).

                This was replaced with "purchase charms (five are given free at character creation), to have effects specific to that ability, (including effects for static actions)".

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                • #9
                  The charms for DBs in the corebook were stopgaps. Their charms were notably more powerful as well. It's to make up for the fact that they don't have a huge variety of abilities to draw on, and it's meant to make them feel relatively as powerful as they're supposed to be when fully stated out.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                    Same reason they nerfed dragon blooded using Martial arts at a celestial level.
                    They did what now?


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                      They did what now?
                      Presumably this was in reference to the Terrestrial / Mastery keywords.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                        They did what now?
                        I assume he's referring to the way 2e DBs could simply ("simply") learn Celestial Martial Arts upon fulfilling certain conditions, whereas 3e only allows them to ignore the Terrestrial keyword for a single tick by expending Aura.

                        The new way is easier to access, but more situational, and I wouldn't fault anyone for seeing it as a nerf.

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                        • #13
                          That and they can learn what are essentially the only "Celestial Martial Arts" in the game, given that the dragon styles are the only MAs that restrict those limited to "terrestrial martial arts" from learning their charms. (If they're not a deeb).

                          So in summary, Dragonblooded can't learn celestial martial arts because they're not a thing, except in one weird case that dragon blooded are allowed to use anyway,

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Fool of Creation View Post
                            I would honestly be hesitant to send a party of 5 beginning Solars up against a party of 5 beginning DBs, as there is a legitimate chance that the DBs would kill two or three of them before they were killed off.
                            The abstract nature of Withering/Decisive attacks affords the Storyteller a lot of control over how a fight like that goes down without overtly fudging events in the PCs favour. I could run 5 starting Solars against 5 starting Solars without a huge risk to the PCs.
                            Last edited by Lioness; 04-18-2019, 07:11 AM.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The MG View Post
                              I assume he's referring to the way 2e DBs could simply ("simply") learn Celestial Martial Arts upon fulfilling certain conditions, whereas 3e only allows them to ignore the Terrestrial keyword for a single tick by expending Aura.

                              The new way is easier to access, but more situational, and I wouldn't fault anyone for seeing it as a nerf.
                              It's not just situational. A few defensive charms and abilities are based on auras or expending an aura. So expending an aura turns those charms off causing a very unfortunate situation where you spent motes and willpower on defenses and now have to get rid of them.

                              It also only lasts a tick regardless of situation so a few styles just end up being poor choices due to how much terrestial weakens the style. The aura mechanic feels like it just ends up being a finisher.
                              Last edited by Epimetheus; 04-18-2019, 08:09 AM.

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