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  • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
    And yet you have to buy several charms you can't use at all and if for any reason you are kicked out of the aura or have to expend it and fail you are screwed. Also, flurries will bring it down quickly and that's assuming you roll the average.
    ...why are you still bringing up that it's in a crappy place in the tree when I've said three times now that I also think that...?

    Also, you could roll less, maybe, you could roll more too. You could even stunt and/or spend willpower if you wanted. A two die stunt is pretty easy, so actually the average is more like 6 since who isn't going to stunt that? It's cool as hell, which makes for easy stunts. A Grand Daiklave wielded by somebody with 5 Strength has a base damage of 19. so if you roll 4, say, solidly below average, they still need to somehow boost their damage by more than 6 to roll just 2 damage. That is the best case damage scenario, and they're using a crappy low-accuracy weapon to do it, so it's not because they beat your defense by 6. Even then...great? You're now rolling 2 damage for whatever crazy charm investment you had to put up.


    Flurries aren't even bad either. Because you have a 60% chance to steal 2i, a 30% chance to lose 1, and a 10% chance to lose 2, you actually come out of flurries on top. Lunar uses Thousand Claw Affliction? Bring it on, that's 5 withering attacks that will give me more initiative than they drain, and cost 4m, 4i, 1wp to trigger. Solars don't even have a withering flurry.

    Decisive flurries are almost as bad, the only reason they're not worse is that they're not actively detrimental. You want to activate Iron Whirlwind Attack with 10 initiative? Awesome! How are you ignoring my hardness again? Ah, that's right, you aren't, because Solar melee HAS no Supplemental charms that ignore hardness, only Simple ones that can't be combined with flurries. Even the mighty Thunderbolt Attack Prana is useless here, since it doesn't affect damage dice before they're rolled. Also, they're decisive, so I hope you're willing to spend some motes to hit reliably, or those first couple attacks stand a decent chance of missing because that's how probability distributions work. Even if they do all hit, because you didn't get past my hardness you spend like 10m and a willpower to reduce the withering shield of a Dragonblooded by 5 points. For a Solar, that's pathetic.


    Unless you mean if you're facing a Dawn Caste Solar with a bunch of initiative, Invincible Fury of the Dawn, motes, decisive damage enhancing charms, and excellency dice that he's willing to spend to hit you. In which case congratulations, omae wa mou shindeiru, you are already dead. There is nothing in the game that can survive that short of another celestial exalt who is very focused on defense. You can't even flurry-break out of it with Leaping Dodge Method because Invincible Fury of the Dawn lets you jump a range band with every attack. Think that's shitty? I do too.


    Against anything other than that, the charm combo is unbelievably good. So in 98% of fights.

    EDIT: Okay, maybe, maybe, a DB in Earth Aura using Perfected Scales of the Dragon with Essence 5 could survive that kind of assault, but since the Solar wouldn't miss with all the attacks the DB would have to keep using Perfected Scales of the Dragon each turn afterwards and doing nothing else.
    Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 04-25-2019, 08:07 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
      I would like to reiterate that I don't have a problem with dragon blooded being weaker. Their charms even if they had access to their entire tree still don't feel like they'd be remotely on the level of a celestial because the effects are already quite weaker than what solars or lunars get. My issues stem from the fact that you can't use every charm you have to buy and you are punished for attempting to do so.
      I agree with this, there should not be in any way a line of Water Aura charms that lead up to an Air Aura charm, especially not when it has Duration: Aura, which means you want to sit in it once you get it.

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      • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

        Against anything other than that, the charm combo is unbelievably good. So in 98% of fights.
        Doesn't it also lose out to getting dog piled? Like it's a fine combo. But I don't think having to wait till E5 and taking several dead charms you can't use is a fair trade off. Other exalts beyond DBs even at their level aren't going to have to deal with such a shitty limiter.

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        • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

          I agree with this, there should not be in any way a line of Water Aura charms that lead up to an Air Aura charm, especially not when it has Duration: Aura, which means you want to sit in it once you get it.
          I will say another issue I have with aura. Is Duration: Aura. It should honestly just be scenelong but stop working on turns when your aura isn't up. Losing a charm because you had to expend aura just doesn't make you want to waste it in the first place.

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          • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post

            Doesn't it also lose out to getting dog piled? Like it's a fine combo. But I don't think having to wait till E5 and taking several dead charms you can't use is a fair trade off. Other exalts beyond DBs even at their level aren't going to have to deal with such a shitty limiter.
            Actually if you're getting dogpiled it's amazing. The worst things, by far, about being dogpiled are the onslaught penalties, and the minimum damage ticks. If four people are beating on you with regular old daiklaves, and hitting, they're dealing 20 minimum damage every turn. With this combo up they're dealing 4, and when they fail to roll damage feeding you initiative. Maybe they pound through your shield in 2 rounds because of it, but during those 2 rounds you would have taken 40 withering damage, and took 8 instead, and got bonus initiative for it.

            EDIT: Of course that's assuming you're facing off against 4 people who can wield daiklaves. That's really bad news. Best case scenario they're DBs, and I've been running combat after combat after combat of 1 Lunar vs 3 DBs and the Lunars haven't won one yet. They haven't even killed one of the DBs in the process of losing.
            Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 04-25-2019, 08:18 PM.

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            • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

              Actually if you're getting dogpiled it's amazing. The worst things, by far, about being dogpiled are the onslaught penalties, and the minimum damage ticks. If four people are beating on you with regular old daiklaves, and hitting, they're dealing 20 minimum damage every turn. With this combo up they're dealing 4, and when they fail to roll damage feeding you initiative. Maybe they pound through your shield in 2 rounds because of it, but during those 2 rounds you would have taken 40 withering damage, and took 8 instead, and got bonus initiative for it.

              EDIT: Of course that's assuming you're facing off against 4 people who can wield daiklaves. That's really bad news. Best case scenario they're DBs, and I've been running combat after combat after combat of 1 Lunar vs 3 DBs and the Lunars haven't won one yet. They haven't even killed one of the DBs in the process of losing.
              Aren't those E1 lunars? I mean E3 is when they really get their more dangerous charms.

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              • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                Aren't those E1 lunars? I mean E3 is when they really get their more dangerous charms.
                Mostly E2, but some of us were doing some theorycrafting for e3 and maybe like one or two really specific builds has much of a chance, if they get lucky. Otherwise they just run mote dry trying to defend themselves and attack at the same time.

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                • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                  Mostly E2, but some of us were doing some theorycrafting for e3 and maybe like one or two really specific builds has much of a chance, if they get lucky. Otherwise they just run mote dry trying to defend themselves and attack at the same time.
                  I haven't completely read lunars but they don't have the same scenelong onslaught charms?

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                  • These are Essence 3 DBs mind you, so they have signature charms. On the other hand they’re also not E5.

                    I think an essence 4-5 Lunar could maybe take them though. But it wouldn’t be 100%.

                    On the other hand I wouldn’t really want to be a DB fighting an E3 Lunar either just because I might die. We probably won’t lose the fight but I might die.

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                    • Originally posted by Epimetheus View Post
                      I haven't completely read lunars but they don't have the same scenelong onslaught charms?
                      Yes, at essence two even. It doesn’t matter the dragon blood it full Excellency every attack you can not rely solely on your base defence when an artefact weapon is coming for you

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                      • I mean, as of right now there's no actual way to force a dragon blooded out of their Aura. The scene can end or you can go Bonfire but you can avoid going Bonfire, especially if you're refilling your Personal pool with your combat and stunt motes.
                        You can't get "Kicked out" by any effect that is currently published.

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                        • Originally posted by Maseiken View Post
                          I mean, as of right now there's no actual way to force a dragon blooded out of their Aura. The scene can end or you can go Bonfire but you can avoid going Bonfire, especially if you're refilling your Personal pool with your combat and stunt motes.
                          You can't get "Kicked out" by any effect that is currently published.
                          Motes do not refill with stunts in Third Edition. Stunts only give you dice, successes, and Willpower in return. +2 dice, +2 dice +1 sux +1 WP, or +2 dice +2 sux +2 WP, respectively. There is basically no way, except holding back and doing even more poorly than usual, to not enter bonfire anima by your second or third round, particularly if you need to juggle attack and defense.

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                          • Originally posted by Alistair View Post

                            Motes do not refill with stunts in Third Edition. Stunts only give you dice, successes, and Willpower in return. +2 dice, +2 dice +1 sux +1 WP, or +2 dice +2 sux +2 WP, respectively. There is basically no way, except holding back and doing even more poorly than usual, to not enter bonfire anima by your second or third round, particularly if you need to juggle attack and defense.
                            Note that Anima only jumps if you spend 5 peripheral at once.

                            Need to spend 5m in an instant? Spend 4 peripheral and 1 personal. Always spend 4m out of your peripheral pool before touching personal and you can really avoid anima flare. If you're spending more than 5m a turn you're gonna flare and get mote tapped eventually but you can push it off a good long while with careful management.


                            Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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                            • Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post

                              Note that Anima only jumps if you spend 5 peripheral at once.

                              Need to spend 5m in an instant? Spend 4 peripheral and 1 personal. Always spend 4m out of your peripheral pool before touching personal and you can really avoid anima flare. If you're spending more than 5m a turn you're gonna flare and get mote tapped eventually but you can push it off a good long while with careful management.

                              You can't spend 4m from Peripheral and 1m from Personal unless you're spending 4m for one thing and 1m for a different thing. If your Charm costs 5m+, you can't divide the costs. A lot of DB Charms cost 5m+. It's not as easy as you think.

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                              • Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post

                                Note that Anima only jumps if you spend 5 peripheral at once.

                                Need to spend 5m in an instant? Spend 4 peripheral and 1 personal. Always spend 4m out of your peripheral pool before touching personal and you can really avoid anima flare. If you're spending more than 5m a turn you're gonna flare and get mote tapped eventually but you can push it off a good long while with careful management.
                                Unfortunately, that's not possible. Motes must be spent from entirely one pool or the other, unless they empty one of the pools. So doing the double dip is only possible if you're riding the line and emptying personal every time.

                                Not flaring isn't generally so hard though. Dragonblooded can only spend 4m on an excellency unless they have 5 in the ability and an applicable specialty, which isn't really all the time. Also you regen 5 motes a round, so if you start spending out of your personal you're only getting closer to your peripheral by (motes spent -5).

                                Double also, you only jump up 2 levels at once when you spend 10+ peripheral motes, so you can spend 9 two actions in a row and not go bonfire.


                                On the other hand, it is restrictive. If you pick aura charms that have an aura outside your aspect, there will be times when you will want to spend more motes than that, but can't. I wouldn't necessarily suggest going full hog because of that. Like if you're a fire aspect who wants to brawl, take things like Hammering Wave and Oaken Thew Exertion. You can then combine them for a +10 to damage, or enter Water Aura if you want for the benefit of keeping onslaught penalties up. For your signature consider taking Erupting Fury Barrage instead of Embracing the Violent Flow, though. Basically if you're an Air Aspect, why are none of your offensive or defensive charms Air?

                                The other thing is that Dragonblooded have really kickass anima powers, and anima flux. An Essence 2 Wood Aspect with 5 Stamina exposes all with a 7 round duration, 2i/round poison, which is more difficult to resist than Arrow Frog Venom.

                                But then again your anima destroys the environment, so if you're somewhere you don't want trashed by a firestorm for fifteen minutes. So there's other strong benefits to keeping it in check as well.

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