No announcement yet.

Mortal Sorcerers in the Realm

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I'll note that the Occult requirement is no higher than it is for the Exalted now. That's not saying that every mortal with Occult 3 can become a sorcerer, but for those who can, Occult 3 is a bit less onerous than Occult 5 was.
    Much less, and honestly, that does a lot to move things in to the 'It was kind of an accident' column, yeah.

    Hey, you, reading this! Do you want to see books about Fantasy North Africa? Check out Sanguine's latest Kickstarter for The Book Of Horn and Ivory.


    • #62
      Hmm, looking at the description of Ability ratings, 3 is designated as skill above what might be expected of professional application, signifying experts or veterans.

      So I guess for peasants of the Realm, you still at least need somebody who has had a local role and a good amount of practical experience with the supernatural, but not necessarily access to formal training or extant knowledge. Conceivably somebody who has had to rack up a lot of time dealing with local spirits and the maladies they bring, because waiting for the proper authorities to get involved is not very efficient.

      Enough to get caught up in the orbit of some supernatural force, navigate some of the complicated interactions with it, and not back down when it's uncanny or threatening, but not exactly with a strict intent to become a sorcerer even though it effects that transformation in you.

      The Immaculate Order might not exactly punish you for having improper congress with such forces that can nonetheless now be put to the service of the Realm, but I imagine a space that produces a peasant sorcerer finds itself under stricter scrutiny for the next few years, as the monks chide the prefectural authorities for being lax in their duties.

      But supernatural phenomena pervades the world, such that it would be impractical either for a single organisation to handle all interactions with it or for many communities to get by without having local delegations of one kind of another to manage it. Per capita, the Blessed Isle might have the fewest such local delegates, but it has a lot of people.

      I would imagine that what few peasant sorcerers there are tend to come from the coastal islands, the mountains, and the deserts; places where life is a bit harsher and they probably need to deal with a lot of things on their own anyway.

      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed) Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)


      • #63
        Originally posted by Kukla View Post
        I guess that makes sense! I suppose I'm mostly thinking about the process by which a mortal _becomes_ a sorcerer. It involves a lot of delving in to occult secrets, a lot of personal cultivation, and a lot of hubris - it's not something that just happens by accident! I would have presumed the Immaculate order would have frowned on that whole process of attempting to become a magic man.
        IIRC, the Dev statement on what the Salinan Working means in 3e is that it transformed Creation such that if you have the potential to be a sorcerer, you will encounter opportunities to develop that potential. Assuming both that I recall that correctly and that it still holds, then there's a fundamental limit to how effective societal efforts to stop people from becoming sorcerers can be. After which you have to do something with the people who manage it.


        • #64
          Originally posted by Verzio View Post
          IIRC, the Dev statement on what the Salinan Working means in 3e is that it transformed Creation such that if you have the potential to be a sorcerer, you will encounter opportunities to develop that potential.
          I don't recall that, but I'm not certain the way I remember it is so solid, either*, so if you've got a cite for that, that'd be great.

          *In my recollection, the Salinan Working just preserves Sorcery via nature and a number of bound spirits; even if every textbook containing Death of Obsidian Butterflies were to suddenly burn up, and every sorcerer who knew the working of the spell died, you might intuit the spell from the migratory patterns of Southern butterflies and strange whisperings overheard between fire elementals, which even they do not understand.


          • #65
            Verzio Never mind, found it:

            Originally posted by Robert Vance
            When discussing the Salinan Working, it's necessary to distinguish between its First Edition and Second Edition presentations.

            In First Edition, the Salinan Working was a vast undertaking to preserve sorcerous knowledge, encoding the lessons needed to initiate into each circle of sorcery and a vast library of spells into Creation itself, leaving signs and clues in the patterns of the natural world that guide aspirants to spirits geased with sharing that information to those who ask in the appropriate way. In this manner, a great deal of sorcerous knowledge survived the Usurpation.

            In Second Edition, the Salinan Working, in addition to preserving sorcerous knowledge, also warped fate and causality such that any aspirant who desired to seek sorcery would inevitably come to encounter the five stations of initiation, and was but the first step to Salina's vision of making all circles of sorcery available to all sorcerers.

            In Ex3, we're going with the First Edition presentation of the Salinan Working.​


            • #66
              On a further tangent to the topic, this discussion makes more wonder what the Immaculate stance on the Salinan Working is, if they can tell that it exists. Some mysterious pattern in the world leading talented adepts towards sorcery - it seems like that could be played as either "The work of the Immaculate Dragons!" or "Leftovers of anathema sorcery", and probably others.


              • #67
                I'll note that part of the First Edition description of the working is that you needed to actually know what you were looking for; the migration patterns of birds might have been made into something capable of teaching Travel Without Distance, but that didn't mean that every sorcerer who looked at migrating birds would immediately decode it.

                I think the part with getting spirit instruction was supposed to help a bit with this, but I feel as though the Salinan Working was not meant to read as a resounding success.

                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
       Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)


                • #68

                  Well, there's a reason I put in two caveats that I might be recalling incorrectly. Clearly my recall/phrasing was over-emphatic, too influenced by 2nd edition.

                  On the other hand, my underlying point, which is that there's a limit to how much you can deny potential sorcerers access to knowledge, remains. You can socially discourage the pursuit, and certainly the Realm and IO will discourage mortals from doing so (with the level of pressure operating on a sliding scale depending on social class). But you'll still wind up with people learning sorcery anyway.