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Monday Meeting 29/4/19

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  • marin
    started a topic Monday Meeting 29/4/19

    Monday Meeting 29/4/19

    Exigents is now in first drafts.

  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by The Hug Ninja View Post
    I trust Vance and Minton to be able to differentiate between the popularity of Lunars as a playable splat verses the thought exercise and metaphysics discussions generated by the Fair Folk.
    Doesn't that make whether or not canon-optional Exalted are still part of the conversation in a few years kind of irrelevant?

    Honestly, I hope they're interesting and worth talking about and come up in many people's games as a fun side show or maybe even the odd major character.

    That wouldn't really change the conclusion of the writers that they lack the qualities necessary for a full canon part of the setting, even if the question of retconning them back in could be resolved.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Hug Ninja
    replied
    Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
    Lea has had a lot to say before about how fanon and fandom fixations have shaped the gameline in the past.
    A major reason it held such sway was due to a near absence of developer oversight.

    I trust Vance and Minton to be able to differentiate between the popularity of Lunars as a playable splat verses the thought exercise and metaphysics discussions generated by the Fair Folk.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by The Hug Ninja View Post
    Which would be a problem if line development was entrusted to a software algorithm that measured a subject's popularity in posts and views before handing out writing assignments accordingly.
    I'm too tired to make out what your original post was saying.

    And I mean this seriously in terms of my limited capacities.

    Leave a comment:


  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by The Hug Ninja View Post
    Which would be a problem if line development was entrusted to a software algorithm that measured a subject's popularity in posts and views before handing out writing assignments accordingly.
    Lea has had a lot to say before about how fanon and fandom fixations have shaped the gameline in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Hug Ninja
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    Honestly, a lot of things have been the subject of a lot of conversation that still don't really belong in the game line.
    Which would be a problem if line development was entrusted to a software algorithm that measured a subject's popularity in posts and views before handing out writing assignments accordingly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied

    Originally posted by Ghosthead View Post

    My vague notions that if you have a large set of Exalted who are each not significant as a splat bloc, but are collectively significant if concentrated together on a basis that is across them all as splats, then consideration of non-splat based unifying forces comes more to the fore than it otherwise would.

    It kind of sounds more like splat-based focus along an additional axis. I think that to really get what you're talking about, the setting would need to be reworked from the ground up so that Exalted groups who have been traditionally divided are collected along lines of pure ideology.

    Originally posted by The Hug Ninja View Post
    I wouldn't count out Umbrals, Dream Souled and Hearteaters.

    Though I don't think extra words on them based on Kickstarter backing would be beneficial because it'd be responding to something that looks cool on paper or a nebulous desire for more Exalts. The question of their further development should wait until a few years down the line to see if they're still part of the conversation and holding their own once more old favourites have returned.
    Honestly, a lot of things have been the subject of a lot of conversation that still don't really belong in the game line.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Hug Ninja
    replied
    I wouldn't count out Umbrals, Dream Souled and Hearteaters.

    Though I don't think extra words on them based on Kickstarter backing would be beneficial because it'd be responding to something that looks cool on paper or a nebulous desire for more Exalts. The question of their further development should wait until a few years down the line to see if they're still part of the conversation and holding their own once more old favourites have returned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghosthead
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    How would it have done that?
    My vague notions that if you have a large set of Exalted who are each not significant as a splat bloc, but are collectively significant if concentrated together on a basis that is across them all as splats, then consideration of non-splat based unifying forces comes more to the fore than it otherwise would.

    (Those notions seem like they must be necessarily vague, because the articulation as I recall it by Morke, of the form in which the First Age was surrounded by a wealth of diverse forms of expression of Exaltation beyond what we've traditionally known, was pretty a vague and inchoate thing. But I guess I was seeking to quickly think about why that vision sounded promise for a little bit before we all immediately go off on the train of why the current vision is optimal).

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghosthead View Post
    the potential for this to defray Exalted's "splatism" (as MissMaddy used to call it), i.e. focus on intersplat conflicts
    How would it have done that?

    Originally posted by Ghosthead
    to defray determinism about how splat X is necessary for outcome Y.
    I feel as though this has been helped by how the Dragon Blooded and Lunars are presented, in terms of accomplishments and ongoing projects provided to both. We have Exalted of either stripe connected to creative endeavours in a manner other than lamenting at the absence of a Solar to explain or fix it for them. Two Great Houses have secret mountain laboratories where they're working on freaky new magic, and we've got a bunch of Lunars putting together doomsday weapons (one of whom is actually not Raksi, who instead spends her time decorating her dominion with wonders and contemplating more rewarding mysteries than how to initiate a circle higher).

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghosthead
    replied
    I have some mixed feelings about that.

    On the one hand, always kind of doubted how much these splats could be fleshed out into the setting, or rather more how much the labour would be rewarded by being actually played and sold (given how mechanically intensive 3e seems in particular per splat, but how intensive almost any edition of Exalted would be that gave splats the weight of rules the audience wants). So not hugely surprised.

    On the other, I did enjoy the picture posed by Morke about First Age Solars in 3e surrounded by a constellation of heroes, rather than simply the classic Exalted splats, the whole lifted up by a constellation of heroes, and particularly the potential for this to defray Exalted's "splatism" (as MissMaddy used to call it), i.e. focus on intersplat conflicts, and to defray determinism about how splat X is necessary for outcome Y. It is something to reduce this down to Exigents as the sole firm canon expression of this (esp. if their numbers are as limited as tend to be previewed).

    On the whole though, it is for the best to not have the game designers producing work that they don't believe in, or don't believe is worth the labour.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    I should think that Exigents are a lot easier to make work than whole new Exalt groups because supporting a large character range isn't really the point.

    You don't need to make the Chosen of Masks capable of accomodating as many character concepts as Dragon Blooded or Chernozem, because there's only one of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Epee102
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
    It's not so much that they were "found inflexible" as that fully integrating a new type of Exalt into the setting is a large undertaking that requires considerable effort and takes up a significant amount of conceptual "real estate"—compare Ex3's Lunars to those in past editions. We're already adding three new canonical Exalt types to the setting this edition; doubling that number isn't something we could do without leaving the setting totally overstuffed and giving short shrift to all of their places in it. Making them optional, and providing Storytellers who want to integrate them into the setting of their games enough detail to do so, was the best way to present them without detracting from the setting as a whole.
    Ah, okay, I misunderstood Nealls “no history” remark then. That makes more sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Vance
    replied
    Originally posted by Epee102 View Post

    While I appreciate the frankness on the reasoning why, I am disappointed the new exalt concepts were found inflexible—I was looking forward to how these optional exalts would intertwine with the history of creation and offered new play spaces and styles, and held out hope that a popular enough reception might see them moved to full canon status. Aw well, such is life.
    It's not so much that they were "found inflexible" as that fully integrating a new type of Exalt into the setting is a large undertaking that requires considerable effort and takes up a significant amount of conceptual "real estate"—compare Ex3's Lunars to those in past editions. We're already adding three new canonical Exalt types to the setting this edition; doubling that number isn't something we could do without leaving the setting totally overstuffed and giving short shrift to all of their places in it. Making them optional, and providing Storytellers who want to integrate them into the setting of their games enough detail to do so, was the best way to present them without detracting from the setting as a whole.

    Leave a comment:


  • Epee102
    replied
    Originally posted by Neall View Post
    I am not deciding on Kickstarter goals, and I am only writing for Exigents, but the Optional Exalted are not given shortness in the book simply out of lack of space. The reasons they were relegated to being optional were manifold: Chiefly, that even after reconceptualizing them from their original pitches, they simply didn't have enough narrative grist to sustain a full splat and multiple playstyles. It'd be like giving Fire Elemental God-Blooded a fatsplat.

    The fact that the setting is lousy with Exalts, and there is a book whose chief hook is, "You can be any Exalt you want of virtually any conceptual god," did not help matters. Those Exalted have no history and no place in the setting. Having a lot of Exalted works for the setting of a game called Exalted; having them simply for the virtue of wanting more Exalted is not a good reason.

    And frankly, if you're going to expand one of them, you're going to have to expand all of them, lest they be seen as more canonical than the others. And they are flatly not canonical Exalt types, any more so than the Chosen of Nox or the Chosen of Pluto, the Maiden of Hours.
    While I appreciate the frankness on the reasoning why, I am disappointed the new exalt concepts were found inflexible—I was looking forward to how these optional exalts would intertwine with the history of creation and offered new play spaces and styles, and held out hope that a popular enough reception might see them moved to full canon status. Aw well, such is life.

    Leave a comment:

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