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  • #61
    One might get the idea that the Solars of the First Age had some form of bizarre eversion fetish

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Alpharius View Post
      What the fuck is with Solars and turning demons inside out to hold things? First Malfeas, now this.
      Look, you ever try to make a Klein bottle in three dimensions from non-demons?

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      • #63
        After reading a question in "Ask the Devs" thread, I read what 1e Abyssals says about the Well of Udr.

        Well, it explicitly says that it leads to Labirynth, actually twice.

        It says that Dowager "learned about other Universes" and that she thinks that the Well leads somewhere and plans to escape there. The book says that in that hope, she's wrong.

        I have two questions:

        1. I read here and there on forums and wikies that the Well is a crossroads between worlds. Nothing in 1e Abyssals indicates that, quite to the contrary. Is there any evidence that this used to be a canon version? Actually, I hope so, because that option is immensly cool.

        2. Does "learn" above indicates that Dowager is factually right about the existence of other universes? Is there any other bit of Exalted canon in any edition which suggests so?
        Last edited by Lanic; 06-23-2019, 07:27 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Lanic View Post
          After reading a question in "Ask the Devs" thread, I read what 1e Abyssals says about the Well of Udr.

          Well, it explicitly says that it leads to Labirynth, actually twice.

          It says that Dowager "learned about other Universes" and that she thinks that the Well leads somewhere and plans to escape there. The book says that in that hope, she's wrong.

          I have two questions:

          1. I read here and there on forums and wikies that the Well is a crossroads between worlds. Nothing in 1e Abyssals indicates that, quite to the contrary. Is there any evidence that this used to be a canon version? Actually, I hope so, because that option is immensly cool.

          2. Does "learn" above indicates that Dowager is factually right about the existence of other universes? Is there any other bit of Exalted canon in any edition which suggests so?
          The 1e take is pretty much all there was on it in 1e. It didn't become a gateway for-sure to toher worlds until Second Edition, which is only canon within itself. And whether or not what's in there is what she thinks is in there is never given a definitive answer, just what she thinks it is I think.


          And stuff.
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          • #65
            I like the idea Dreams exist as a plane of existence that can be reached. And its tied to worlds of memory and hidden Yozis/Primordial.

            And several 3rd Circle Souls I imagine are worlds or planes of Existence. I had a soul of the Ebon Dragon known as the White Zone that existed as a two dimensional plane others could travel to.


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Lanic View Post
              After reading a question in "Ask the Devs" thread, I read what 1e Abyssals says about the Well of Udr.

              Well, it explicitly says that it leads to Labirynth, actually twice.

              It says that Dowager "learned about other Universes" and that she thinks that the Well leads somewhere and plans to escape there. The book says that in that hope, she's wrong.
              So yeah, I was the one who asked the original question, because I found what 1e Abyssals said was contradictory, given Dowager was the one who'd studied the Well the most. If it led to the Labyrinth alone, then she'd know that, ergo she has reason to think it leads, or can lead, elsewhere.

              So there was either an unspoken assumption in 1e that the Well can lead to more than one place, or there were two different ideas of where it can lead.


              Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by marin View Post

                So yeah, I was the one who asked the original question, because I found what 1e Abyssals said was contradictory, given Dowager was the one who'd studied the Well the most. If it led to the Labyrinth alone, then she'd know that, ergo she has reason to think it leads, or can lead, elsewhere.

                So there was either an unspoken assumption in 1e that the Well can lead to more than one place, or there were two different ideas of where it can lead.
                Or that the Dowager is crazy as hell. That's also an option.


                My Homebrew Signature

                "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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                • #68
                  Actually, to me 1e text says almost explicitly that:
                  - Well of Udr leads to Labirynth (this is completely explicit);
                  - There are other universes (Dowager "learned" this; the choice of the word seems to strongly imply that she was actually right about it);
                  - The Well doesn't lead to the these universes (the text says that Dowager is wrong about possibility of escape, but this is vague. Maybe she just won't make it before it's too late or will be chased afterwards).

                  But yes, is appears that there were two different ideas of what Well of Udr should be and writers were not consistent about it (apparent contradictions are separated in the book).

                  Why I asked this question is that many people, including Stephen Lea Sheppard, claimed on forums that 2e retconned Well of Udr to lead to Oblivion while in 1e there was more to it. So I was wondering where this idea that Well of Udr leads to every world comes from and I assumed it should be some other source in 1e. Is it maybe detailed in the Book of Bone and Ebony?
                  Last edited by Lanic; 06-24-2019, 04:12 PM.

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                  • #69
                    The discussion this is taking off with is why I kind of hate the Well of Udr.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by marin View Post
                      If it led to the Labyrinth alone, then she'd know that…
                      Would she?

                      The Labyrinth isn’t exactly known for being absolutely uniform in appearance across its entirety.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                        The discussion this is taking off with is why I kind of hate the Well of Udr.
                        Out of curiosity: why? (Seriously, it's not meant to be provocative.)

                        For me, it's an example of good world-building for a game like this: some very evocative way for leaving potentially infinite possibilities while not over-explaining things.

                        Personally, I have a sweet-spot for the trope of "there's even more to this", where frames of the world sketched so far actually turn out to be part of even stranger and greater cosmology.

                        Of course, sometimes it doesn't fit or is plainly goofy. It wouldn't fit Middle Earth. But for Exalted this dash of silver-age comic book weirdness seems more than appropriate.

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                        • #72
                          I kinda like it being one of the few things related to the Abyss that isn't wholly destructive. I mean, sure the Dowager used it for destruction, but its not bound by that limitation

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Lanic View Post

                            Out of curiosity: why?
                            I had a thing prepared to say critical of alternate realities, but... they apparently didn't apply when I read about the Dragon Blooded group Yatani's Children.

                            I kind of want to at least retain a measure of it for something from the Underworld, but... Why? I have some notions of my own that would place the Well as an example of something cosmologically weird and a kind of proto-Underworld from the earliest days of Creation. The backstory given for the Underworld kind of fits with the possibility that it might intersect with reality in strange ways.

                            Disregard my prior statement, much of my viewpoint is being revised.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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