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Exiled from Existence: The Retconian

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    They could simply be out of focus.
    Chenow's in the same basic situation as Peleps Deled where he's not really relevant to his Great House and more of a foil to Exalts in the threshold. As for his family, there's indication elsewhere in the book that the major lines still exist but are being downplayed in favour of showcasing a common Great House identity.
    Maybe, though House Sesus is supposed to be more consistently subtle this edition, an entire household made of unsubtle serial rapists and warmongers seems like it'd be out of character

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    • #47
      On things that might also no longer exist, I believe there was a thaumaturgy or sorceress totem that invalidated the whole certain storm mothers have a tendency to attack ships with women on them thing that cheesed off Lioness a bit. Since thaumaturgy no longer works on that scale and a sorceress working would be more of a unique thing to offer protection to individual ships or along certain routes that particular spell is probably not a thing anymore.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
        On things that might also no longer exist, I believe there was a thaumaturgy or sorceress totem that invalidated the whole certain storm mothers have a tendency to attack ships with women on them thing that cheesed off Lioness a bit. Since thaumaturgy no longer works on that scale and a sorceress working would be more of a unique thing to offer protection to individual ships or along certain routes that particular spell is probably not a thing anymore.
        I think the Scarlet Passage Idol now works as thaumaturgy.

        It annoyed me in 2e because in that edition thaumaturgy was basically technology/occult science. The Realm had developed/discovered a way to ward storm mothers without imposing strict gender roles (Coral and Wavecrest), expecting their female sailors to sterilise themselves (the Tya) or going around beating up storm mothers and forcing them to swear oaths not to attack their ships (Skullstone).

        In the context of 3rd edition thaumaturgy its not unrealistic that the Realm could control the only people in the entire world who know how to perform a particular ritual.


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        • #49
          Originally posted by HamSandLich View Post
          Maybe, though House Sesus is supposed to be more consistently subtle this edition, an entire household made of unsubtle serial rapists and warmongers seems like it'd be out of character
          I'm not sure how unsuble they were supposed to be. The Household at least created the impression that Sesus Chenow had settled into a more respectable lifestyle. We know the truth as people who've read the books but what does the typical Dynast know of what they do away from the Blessed Isle?


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          • #50
            I'm glad Desus is gone, but I will use this opportunity to spruik one little headcanon I had about him.

            I always had the theory that Desus grew up as a relatively unremarkable Clerk in one of the Big cities of Creation, particularly one with an extensive security and safety system in place for children and teenagers. He would've grown up and been educated in a safe environment, under no danger and honestly unaware of the concept of danger.

            Then he Exalts as a result of especially puissant paperwork, essentially graduating out of grunt work and into the enlightened echelons of the Lawgivers, and in the process of his Exaltation, he learns a few charms that protect the sanctity of the body holding his Mighty Brain.

            At no point between his birth and his exaltation has Desus experienced physical pain beyond a state of discomfort, and never for more than half an hour or so. After his exaltation his charms and modus are such that very little in the world Can hurt him, and he has little occasion to be exposed to it without solidly having the upper hand.

            My theory about Desus was that he literally didn't know what pain felt like.

            Not that that makes any of his Desusness justified or even really understandable. Just that it was one factor of his overall untouchable bastardy perfection.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Lioness View Post
              I'm not sure how unsuble they were supposed to be. The Household at least created the impression that Sesus Chenow had settled into a more respectable lifestyle. We know the truth as people who've read the books but what does the typical Dynast know of what they do away from the Blessed Isle?

              Our primary example of one of the household members(aside from Chenow himself) is Sesus Chenow Lahor, who was assigned to the posting of Wangler's Knob(i.e. nowhere) in The Time of Tumult because he raped a girl who exalted while he was raping her and who thoughtlessly spends the lives of his troops because he thinks there will always be more reserves for him to call upon. 2e says this of Sesus Chenow and his household:

              r. Over the next few years, he started his own rigorously military household and began leading excursions into the Threshold, ostensibly to defend the Realm’s interests. It soon became apparent that he’d done so in order to gain the means to carry on his brutality in distant Threshold lands, far from the Realm’s wagging tongues and soft patrician bourgeoisie. Since that didn’t cause the House any political hardship, Sesus allowed it. To this day, the household of Chenow deploys some of the most effective and brutal troops in Creation, and they live for deployment to the Threshold, where they can take sadistic liberties that would get them disowned or severely punished on the Blessed Isle.
              emphasis mine

              That's less clever subtlety and more relying on the inherent detachment the Blessed Isle has from the Threshold. They weren't actively covering up their habits, just exploiting the fact that the Dynasty didn't care about what happened to people on the Threshold as long as tribute came in on time.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Maseiken View Post
                I always had the theory that Desus grew up as a relatively unremarkable Clerk in one of the Big cities of Creation, particularly one with an extensive security and safety system in place for children and teenagers. He would've grown up and been educated in a safe environment, under no danger and honestly unaware of the concept of danger.
                Considering what Creation was supposed to be like in the Time Before, this doesn't feel right.


                He/him

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                  Considering what Creation was supposed to be like in the Time Before, this doesn't feel right.

                  Yeah, he's a Primordial war vet (though later in the war, since his previous incarnation was "killed for treachery"), that's how/why he blinded Oliphem

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by HamSandLich View Post
                    emphasis mine
                    It became apparent to who though? My reading of that (based on the entire passage) is Sesus.

                    Edit: to clarify I'm not saying your reading of the situation is invalid, but the older books are pretty bad at giving us the skeletons in someone's closet as the core of a character and expecting the storyteller to build a public persona around it. Desus is just the worst example of it because he's a prominent essence 10 character built upon that dichotomy.
                    Last edited by Lioness; 05-30-2019, 06:31 AM.


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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                      Considering what Creation was supposed to be like in the Time Before, this doesn't feel right.
                      Oh yeah, this was solidly a hc of mine and I think it’s from before dreams. The assumption is that he was a citizen of the First Age rather than the Time Before.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Maseiken View Post
                        Oh yeah, this was solidly a hc of mine and I think it’s from before dreams.
                        His blinding Oliphem during the War went all the way back to 1e. Dreams of the First Age just expanded on it.

                        Originally posted by Maseiken View Post
                        The assumption is that he was a citizen of the First Age rather than the Time Before.
                        Given the wars with the Lunars, the Niobrarans, et cetera., I imagine the most peaceful parts of the First Age were a good ways into it.


                        He/him

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                        • #57
                          As there was the First Deliberative, I wonder if there was a period of peace (possibly tyrannical peace, hence the Shadow Deliberative) early-ish (though that could be, say, 2000 years in), though one which didn't last, as it was followed by the Sunstrife Interregnum.
                          Certainly, if you want a character who grew up in a peaceful world, I think you are right, it must be much later.


                          I play...
                          Kovan, actor, librarian, sorcerer, great bear, Lunar Elder from the First Age
                          Thutmose-Osiris, seventh son of a seventh son, descendant of the Supreme Deity Sukhmet, renegade demigod and bearer of the Ghoul-Banishing Bow. Also bright green.

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                          • #58
                            i didn’t read 1e.

                            Can’t stress enough that this is a random hc. There’s really no substance to it, nor did I think there was.

                            Although on the point of how far into the First Age you could expect to live in a peaceful city, I didn’t specify any part of the first age. So yeah I guess the thing that didn’t happen could’ve not happened later on?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Maseiken View Post
                              i didn’t read 1e.

                              Can’t stress enough that this is a random hc. There’s really no substance to it, nor did I think there was.

                              Although on the point of how far into the First Age you could expect to live in a peaceful city, I didn’t specify any part of the first age. So yeah I guess the thing that didn’t happen could’ve not happened later on?

                              The view of the First Age between 2e and 3e is very different. About halfway through the 2e First Age timeline, things pretty much stabilized for everyone as Hierophant consolidated his power, though Solar experiments could and did lead to massive casualties(Operation Wyldhand), prior to that, the Solars kept killing each other for power and accidentally broke reality(they fixed it though). 3e's First Age seems a bit more diverse in its conflicts.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                                It became apparent to who though? My reading of that (based on the entire passage) is Sesus.

                                Edit: to clarify I'm not saying your reading of the situation is invalid, but the older books are pretty bad at giving us the skeletons in someone's closet as the core of a character and expecting the storyteller to build a public persona around it. Desus is just the worst example of it because he's a prominent essence 10 character built upon that dichotomy.

                                Well, in 3e, even if Chenow is still around, its unlikely his actions so far would have merited the granting of an entire household. He doesn't display any traits that the Masked Council would approve of.

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