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Exiled from Existence: The Retconian

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  • Lioness
    started a topic Exiled from Existence: The Retconian

    Exiled from Existence: The Retconian

    There is a prison greater even than Malfeas reserved for the greatest criminals of the world. Once an individual is consigned to its depths their existence in the world as they knew it is completely erased, it's as though they never existed. Some say that there is a window allowing these unknown and unknowable entities to gaze out at the world that exists obliviously without them longing for release or a death that will never come...

    This forbidden text, believed to be produced by the prison's wardens the Redactors is all that documents these damned inmates and suggests reasons for their punishment.


    Desus

    Desus never thought of himself as a villain, but no seperation existed between the life he lived and the abuse he carried out upon his wife and Lunar Mate Lilith behind closed doors. He was introduced first and foremost as a bully and abuser with the fanbase charged with the task of inventing heroic tasks that he could be held in high regard for. They didn't, instead Desus' abuses became a meme until he transitioned from flawed hero to probable living identity for The Silver Prince.
    The idea that Lilith was better off without him left Desus sick to his stomach, he watched her romance with the pretender Andamani play out being delighted by his death. He still watches his former mate on nights of the Full Moon vowing to find his way back to her somehow.


    Tachi-Kun


    The former God of Exalted Warfare wonders what he did to deserve this fate, he blames two factors.
    The First is the Bronze Faction for his disdain towards the Dragon-Blooded. Though privately he considers that his lack of development, his ill defined rivalry with Voharun and how his purview of Exalted Warfare seemed to translate to rolling more dice and turning into a dragon for... reasons. He was also cursed with a name that is Japanese for "Sword Friend" which led to the Redactors to replace him. It's perhaps telling that Tachi-Kun pays little heed to the world he was once part of.

  • HamSandLich
    replied
    The old Autocrat's wife wasn't described as having any particular emotions regarding the Puppet King.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    Oh right, elsewhere in the chapter it mentions the death of the old Autocrat. I suppose I just assumed the Autocrat and the Aurocrat were the same guy! It certainly adds a lot of horror to The Puppet King, having the former ruler still around but turned into a decrepit figure of mockery and is in keeping with The Mask of Winters' theatrical approach towards the resistance.

    I think this is a rare moment of me projecting my in-game experiences onto the book because I ran an Exalted game years ago in which the Autocrat's daughter (now a Renegade Abyssal) ended up mercy killing him.

    I'm normally the one reminding people that you can't always connect your positive/negative game experiences to what's in the books and to not be so quick to give them credit for your storyteller fixing their mistakes and oversights. I'm normally the one reminding people that you can't always connect your positive/negative game experiences to what's in the books and to not be so quick to give them credit for your storyteller fixing their mistakes and oversights.

    TL;DR I was wrong. The Puppet King wasn't the old Autocrat (Red Iron Rebuke's brother) he's some random mockery figurehead.

    I would have to re-read, but he could be both things, no?

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  • Lioness
    replied
    Oh right, elsewhere in the chapter it mentions the death of the old Autocrat. I suppose I just assumed the Autocrat and the Aurocrat were the same guy! It certainly adds a lot of horror to The Puppet King, having the former ruler still around but turned into a decrepit figure of mockery and is in keeping with The Mask of Winters' theatrical approach towards the resistance.

    I think this is a rare moment of me projecting my in-game experiences onto the book because I ran an Exalted game years ago in which the Autocrat's daughter (now a Renegade Abyssal) ended up mercy killing him.

    I'm normally the one reminding people that you can't always connect your positive/negative game experiences to what's in the books and to not be so quick to give them credit for your storyteller fixing their mistakes and oversights. I'm normally the one reminding people that you can't always connect your positive/negative game experiences to what's in the books and to not be so quick to give them credit for your storyteller fixing their mistakes and oversights.

    TL;DR I was wrong. The Puppet King wasn't the old Autocrat (Red Iron Rebuke's brother) he's some random mockery figurehead.
    Last edited by Lioness; 06-11-2019, 07:33 AM.

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  • HamSandLich
    replied
    IRC, in 2e, the proper Autocrat was killed(and wasn't as decrepit), the Puppet King was some....thing(?) that Mask put on the throne as a mockery of the old royal line.

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  • LostLight
    replied
    On the subject of Nocturnals- I think that one contrast we could draw between Nox and his Chosen and the Getimians and whatever strange force which grants them existence is that the later are impossible beings, while the former are the Chosen of Possibilities. It is a fine difference, but it a strong thematic one: instead of being an existence which should not be, they are the power which sees what could be. Instead of changing the past, they are about creating the future. Instead of enforcing a stillborn fate upon the world, they herald a new future, a new possibility- a potential for a future not dictated by the laws of fate and the will of heaven.

    It could be a good place to start, IMO- but I assume that any further discussion of Nocturnals and their possible place at 3e should deserve its own thread and shouldn't derail this one. They are not Lunars, after all :P

    Leave a comment:


  • Accelerator
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    It's wasn't clear what his status was.
    This makes him sound like a fucked up Disney animatronic but he's never specifically described as a corpse. I guess to provide the Storyteller options?
    ......

    Five nights at Freddies. Creation Version.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lioness
    replied
    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
    Wasn't the autocrat per se maade into a ghost?? I admit i'm possibly mixing up stuff due to years since i last read CotD1: Scavenger Lands
    It's wasn't clear what his status was.
    Originally posted by Compass Scavenger Lands
    And at the far end, upon a basalt throne too large for him, sits the Autocrat of Thorns, often called the Puppet King. He is a withered gray man with flesh that hangs loosely from his bones and an iron crown sown into his brow. His mouth hangs open, his wispy beard spills onto his chest, and indistinct strands of shadowy black rise from his joints until they fade from view high above. Occasionally, he twitches to life long enough to shut his slack jaw and make a pronouncement with jerking motions of his hand, only to fall into his half-slumbering state once more.
    This makes him sound like a fucked up Disney animatronic but he's never specifically described as a corpse. I guess to provide the Storyteller options?

    Leave a comment:


  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    That was Wisdom Whispered, a different guy in the court. The Puppet King is the Autocrat of Thorns i.e. Red Iron Rebuke's brother.
    Wasn't the autocrat per se maade into a ghost?? I admit i'm possibly mixing up stuff due to years since i last read CotD1: Scavenger Lands.


    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    It's useful to remember how tonally different MoEP: Nocturnals Nox is from the one in MoEP: Sidereals.

    There were a few less successful attempts to give Nox his own Exalts and Reminiscent Oasis' attempt was the most successful, primarily because the others more followed the source material of Nox being defined by his lust for his sisters and watching everything which generally yielded less interesting revenge-focused exalts. RO basically exonerated his version of Nox by making him a being of constant flux who was unable to really commit to a side in the Primordial War, which is such a specific thing to do with the character that updating the Nox who appeared in print without drawing directly from the fanwork would probably result in a notably different entity.
    That's a factor for certain but then i myself though not deeply familiar with Nocturnals always made a major point of taking Nox in directions beyond "lurking, stalkery brother of the Maidens", because Incarna of Incest & Squick not exactly great exalted material makes.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 06-10-2019, 04:02 PM.

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  • Lioness
    replied
    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
    Wasn't that puppet king a treacherous vizier or something like that? Concept-wise he could certainly fit as one of the "missed destinies" that get chosen for Gentimians, i guess.
    That was Wisdom Whispered, a different guy in the court. The Puppet King is the Autocrat of Thorns i.e. Red Iron Rebuke's brother.

    Originally posted by Baaldam
    Nox does seem to fill a conceptual space that is awfully close to that of Gentimians, differences in Nocturnals' charmset notwithstanding.
    It's useful to remember how tonally different MoEP: Nocturnals Nox is from the one in MoEP: Sidereals.

    There were a few less successful attempts to give Nox his own Exalts and Reminiscent Oasis' attempt was the most successful, primarily because the others more followed the source material of Nox being defined by his lust for his sisters and watching everything which generally yielded less interesting revenge-focused exalts. RO basically exonerated his version of Nox by making him a being of constant flux who was unable to really commit to a side in the Primordial War, which is such a specific thing to do with the character that updating the Nox who appeared in print without drawing directly from the fanwork would probably result in a notably different entity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
    Hmm I honestly don't recall this Tachi individual, Dreams of the First Age?

    CoCD1: Blessed Isle.

    Originally posted by HamSandLich View Post
    Really minor character, but it appears that Thorns' Puppet King is no more, having been replaced by blind deathknight and "Man in the Iron Mask"-reference Red Iron Rebuke as regent of Thorns in Mask of Winters' stead.
    Wasn't that puppet king a treacherous vizier or something like that? Concept-wise he could certainly fit as one of the "missed destinies" that get chosen for Gentimians, i guess.


    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    Makes sense. Oversight wasn't popular and why step on the toes of people who want to include Nocturnals?
    Nox does seem to fill a conceptual space that is awfully close to that of Gentimians, differences in Nocturnals' charmset notwithstanding.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 06-10-2019, 09:38 AM.

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  • Bastet
    replied
    Originally posted by Darmani View Post
    I can also turn that around where it seems as if everyone's hatred of lilun has very little to do with actual morality so much as wanting to guiltlessly have superpowers.
    Well then I have to retract the part about your stance being less vile.

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  • Darmani
    replied
    Originally posted by Bastet View Post
    I find people not wanting on-screen child abuse in their entertainment an example of the audience not being sociopaths.


    Ah here we go. This has nothing to do with the storytelling merits of Lillun and everything to do with imposing something unpalatable on a splat you obviously dislike. Less vile than advocating people with no intention of depicting child abuse are cowards, but still pretty vile.
    Well ultimately he's been put into Rec Kania desis was a very deliberate attempts to make us realize that the solar exalted weren't overthrown just for being too awesome. We were often reminded that there was institutionalized sex work that had been happening to a lot of people who are destitute and there were many powers that allow you to basically turn people into Meat Puppets. And finally a common aspect of the Demons where that they turned people into things or Commodities from their hope streams and bodies and so far. Any attempt in order to turn the demons into a PC faction was obviously going to make them sympathetic. Lilun is a kind of up imposition much like a Stephen only perspective or SpongeBob will never get his boating license. No matter how cool no matter how vast no matter how sympathetic the demon princess got you needed to be aware this was the faction that you were with and these were the things that they would do. Much like the atrocities of the solars kept on getting blown up as well as the falsity of their virtue or their tendency to easily lie and manipulate as well as the failure of The Godly Patron this needs to be emphasized and I think lilin was a way to do so because she not only emphasize the cruelty of the demon princes but the exalted creation and the Scarlet empress. Note that I extended this also to realm culture

    I can also turn that around where it seems as if everyone's hatred of lilun has very little to do with actual morality so much as wanting to guiltlessly have superpowers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bastet
    replied
    Originally posted by Darmani View Post
    I found every attempt in order to Blount apologized ignore make fun of the Developers for her and so on to be an example of audience cowardice.
    I find people not wanting on-screen child abuse in their entertainment an example of the audience not being sociopaths.

    Originally posted by Darmani
    However I can also understand that causing too much disruption in the overall community that getting rid of it is fine but I hope along side of it was the infernos as a whole. Along with the apparent assumption that all they are is a collection of powers and a destiny become super primordials II someone sneezes if they eat a tuna sandwich
    Ah here we go. This has nothing to do with the storytelling merits of Lillun and everything to do with imposing something unpalatable on a splat you obviously dislike. Less vile than advocating people with no intention of depicting child abuse are cowards, but still pretty vile.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by Darmani View Post
    I personally always thought that she was the proper tax to what would obviously be the focus of the infernals chapter. Mainly we are in with a very nasty group of people who turned people into things. They go to extreme limits at all times and they do not recognize proper propriety. More importantly it's presented in as disgusting in horror flick away as possible not meant to lure you in but in fact meant to gross you out so that that way you realize your character it's either being forced to or is complicit in some sick ass s*** because they get the Rockstar powers.
    This also describes a lot of JoJo villains, but they usually manage to express this without the Lillun-ing.

    What's more it highlighted kind of something we got a little too comfortable with an exalted mainly massive amount of sexual exploitation that naturally be going on of the young. Even in realm culture there are thousands of lillens that is to say little girls who have been sold into desperate situations to be exploited for whatever winds powerful people can make out of their Wills or their bodies
    The game would have been better off focusing on the plight of mortals in this context than the exercise in making the Ebon Dragon into a walking cliché among cliches. Also, it's attractive youths in general for most of Creation, including the Realm.

    I found every attempt in order to Blount apologized ignore make fun of the Developers for her and so on to be an example of audience cowardice. However I can also understand that causing too much disruption in the overall community that getting rid of it is fine but I hope along side of it was the infernos as a whole. Along with the apparent assumption that all they are is a collection of powers and a destiny become super primordials II someone sneezes if they eat a tuna sandwich
    Infernals were supposed to be viable player characters. Lillun's treatment was, in this context, tying a splat's neck to an anchor with a short chain and launching it overboard. And there was no one at the helm to catch it in time and maybe rethink what was rather obviously a really bad idea. And that is what it remains; no grand plan, no particular reason for its execution, and nothing desired beyond shocking people who read the book and see the art... for all the time before the first chapter gets removed from that copy of the book to make what's left jive with the chapters after chargen.

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