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10,000 Year Daiklaives and the Equivalent N/A Artifacts

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  • 10,000 Year Daiklaives and the Equivalent N/A Artifacts

    So page 159 has "10,000 year daiklaives" under the description of N/A Artifacts. I've tried searching for various threads and not seen a lot on how to design these.

    According to this, people mention not just giving N/A artifacts more powerful stats (I'm unclear if that's still a thing or not) but to give the item a narrative power that warps the story.

    I'm not clear at all on artifact design, as deconstructing the "rules" by which all of the items is too time consuming for me at the moment. 2E for it's warts, had a clear guideline in Oadenol's Codex on what a 3 dot vs 5 dot artifact stats could be. Btw, I found a good list of 1E and 2E canon exalted artifacts here.

    In 3rd, so far we've only seen Warstriders as N/A artifacts, and they have limitations in the form of hearthstones and maintenance.

    I've seen some examples on the boards, Erishkigal comes to mind, as well as others in the artifact design thread.


    The reason I bring this up is that I have a Supernal Craft Twilight and a Supernal Melee Dawn in my Solar game. The twilight can now make N/A artifacts in 2 rolls 99.6% of the time. They have access to a vault of 1st age materials, and want to make some N/A artifacts. (He bought the charm that lets him get up to 20xp after making 5 N/A artifacts.)

    The Dawn is a bodyguard with all of the guardian style charms for protecting other people. He asked about a Daiklaive that could break other daiklaives when using the "defend other" action.

    Twilight wants to make a bow of some kind, while the Eclipse PC wants a fancier Thrown weapon.

    As for Armor, the PC's are curious about it, but no concrete ideas. They like the idea of powerful things, but don't want "I win" buttons.

    Any thoughts on this are welcome.

  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Clophiroth View Post
    In my last game there were N/A Hearthstones, formed from the Elemental Poles. The Eye and Seven Despairs was seeking them, to use their amazing power to connect to Creation and... Probably be overwhelmed by it, having very very very negative effects on the environment. But mostly because he was trying to imbue the Underworld with the Power of Life and Creation and end with its existence.


    He was planning to put them on his Gauntlet, which conveniently had 5 hearthstone slots
    Oh you cheeky bugger! This reminds me of an idea I had a couple years ago. Basically a primo level Solar Sorcerer Crafter made 10 eggs, out of the 5 Jades, And one of Soulsteel, one of Starmetal, one of Moonsilver, one of Orichalchum and one of Adamant. He also Sorcerously birthed a Pantheon of Gods as his avatars/Familiars, and left Creation with a caravan of thousand Score Mortal Souls to create his own Universe.

    I figured each egg would be like a level 5 Artifact that expanded mastery over their materials Purview. He was deciding what to do because the Deliberative was balking at his schemes, so he went to have a chat with Ligier, one duel later he was out of his slump missing an Eye and finally at peace. He took his Pantheon and had one thousand Score followers to commit ritual suicide and took their spirits with him to create somewhere he could explore and create in peace(aka in complete Tyranny). Each Egg was Worldshaking and his Pantheon helped in their Creation and when used in Unison with his solar might he could do impossible things. And when not in use each member of his Soul Pantheon guards an Egg and it represents their Authority over and aspect of Creation, like the God of Death holding the Soulsteel egg.

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  • Clophiroth
    replied
    In my last game there were N/A Hearthstones, formed from the Elemental Poles. The Eye and Seven Despairs was seeking them, to use their amazing power to connect to Creation and... Probably be overwhelmed by it, having very very very negative effects on the environment. But mostly because he was trying to imbue the Underworld with the Power of Life and Creation and end with its existence.

    He was planning to put them on his Gauntlet, which conveniently had 5 hearthstone slots
    Last edited by Clophiroth; 06-12-2019, 02:36 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    One of the Ideas I like about N/A artifacts is since they are not limited so much by rules they can be a way of making a mortal being comparable to an Exalt. We know Bagrash Kol was a mortal man and with the Eye he had an empire that eclipsed the Early Realm without an army of Dragonblooded. I like to think the eye gave him access to Invocations that allowed him to dip into solar scale charms. While others failed using the eye. So I like to think for Instance you could have a Keyblade be an Artifact N/A that essentially makes the Wielder an Exalt but tied to the Artifact.

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  • Iceblade44
    replied
    Originally posted by Tytalus View Post


    Are you willing to share what your N/A's have been and how they were used?
    One that I have drafted up is an unassuming necklace of glass beads, each glowing with a different light or flashing between several. The story behind it was the necklace housed the memories of ancient Eclipse and his pilgrimage to commune with various Incarna, Yozi, and various other powerful spirits on a quest to understand Divinity(Basically any patron of the Exalted). What the necklace basically did in terms of Evocations was give you access to a number of powerful Solar Spells each one based off a Spirit, in a grand display on what you call true divine magic. Like to list a few spells, Luna's was similar in function to Incomparable Body Arsenal, where you could use and switch between Luna's Archetypes for various benefits and build Evocations off those, The Elemental Dragons one was a buffed up version of Summon Elemental, which allowed you to create and command a Lesser Elemental Dragon as well washing the landscape with elemental Essence thus changing the surroundings to an environmental hazard, while the Yozi Malfeas one would allow you to temporarily summon a whole neighborhood of the Demon City, along with any 1st and rarely 2nd Circle Demons that was dwelling there, who if you manage to get under your contract were under you command. Big powerful spells like that.

    Of course to even use those spells is a quest in itself. To even attune to the necklace you had a Solar Circle Sorcerer, with every spell having a Special Activation Rule that you must accomplish before gaining access to the Spell, thus making sure that it take a long time before you were able to get all the spells, if ever. If you not a 3CS you can still get access to you patrons spell but only theirs, and you need to still accomplish the special activation rule.

    In any case thats what I have detailed anyway. Hope it helps

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  • Lioness
    replied
    Originally posted by Tytalus View Post
    Are you willing to share what your N/A's have been and how they were used?
    The main one is a cursed Daiklave called Atansis Kohl.

    The sword has a will of its own to the point she’s more a support NPC than equipment, she can lend any and all of her Evocations to her bearer if she wants to. The problem is that by human standards she’s a narcissistic psychopath that wants people to fight, kill and die in order to try and possess her in the hands of a Dawn Caste who considers any death unacceptable.

    So, he’s limited by what he can ask of her because he’s trying to curb her more negative traits by appealing to her ego rather than indulging her bloodlust. He mostly uses her as a talisman to make enemy combatants forget why they’re actually there and instead focus their efforts upon trying to claim the sword for themselves.

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  • Alistair
    replied
    Originally posted by Tytalus View Post


    Are you willing to share what your N/A's have been and how they were used?

    Personally, I've only ever tried my hand at making one N/A Artifact, and that was a Starmetal eye prosthesis Artifact based on the Rinnegan from Naruto. It basically screwed a lot with the cycle of reincarnation, and the body and surroundings of the bearer, though it's still not complete and thus I haven't showed it to anyone or tested it yet. N/As are pretty much a justification for going batshit crazy on Evocations and giving a character a lot of power, though sometimes at a scale or magnitude a tad too much to control at first. I wouldn't make all or even most of them monkey's paws, but some (like Karvara) work better that way.

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  • Tytalus
    replied
    Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    Not sure how helpful this will be but here goes.

    When I introduce N/A artifacts I'd rather my PCs be intimidated and unsure how to use it than unimpressed. I favour uncontrollable power that the wielder learns to use efficiently (or safely!) through Evocations rather than efficiency building towards raw power.

    Though my N/As tend to be things my players found rather than made, hence its easier for me to give them a monkey's paw.

    Are you willing to share what your N/A's have been and how they were used?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lioness
    replied
    Not sure how helpful this will be but here goes.

    When I introduce N/A artifacts I'd rather my PCs be intimidated and unsure how to use it than unimpressed. I favour uncontrollable power that the wielder learns to use efficiently (or safely!) through Evocations rather than efficiency building towards raw power.

    Though my N/As tend to be things my players found rather than made, hence its easier for me to give them a monkey's paw.

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  • Flare
    replied
    I'd talk to the players. They may know what effect they want to have and if you have that all you have to do is filter it out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tytalus
    replied
    Great suggestions everyone. I don't have a lot of time for custom creating evocations, but this has given me a good place to start. More ideas are welcome!

    Leave a comment:


  • Epitome
    replied
    There's not really a way to make N/A weaponry that doesn't make the wielder broken in at least some ways. Some sample Evocations could include :

    Guardian Daiklave :
    -Reflect a source of uncountable damage directed at your ward back at the attacker or another valid target.
    -Shatter all the currently attuned artifacts of an attacker, making them unusable until artifact level repairs are performed.

    Crafter Bow :
    -Fire an arrow which turns into any projectile you are able to craft yourself mid-flight, including projectiles which would be considered First Age Wonders i.e. implosion bolts.
    -Fire an arrow which instantly builds a small outpost, warship or any similar large-scale structure equivalent to a superior project where it lands.

    Fancy Eclipse Thrown Weapon :
    -Throw a Chakram between 2 enemy forces, severing any positive ties between them and creating defining Ties of enmity between them for the Scene.
    -Fling a throwing knife that will find and strike their intended target anywhere within extreme range so long as the target holds a Major Tie towards you, including by crossing boundaries between worlds when possible (such as going through a shadowland or entering a spirit's sanctum)
    Last edited by Epitome; 05-28-2019, 01:33 AM.

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  • Sith_Happens
    replied
    Vance’s spitball example two years ago of an N/A weapon was one that slays an army in a single strike and raises it as a zombie army under your control.

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  • Flare
    replied
    so I'll pimp my thread and some of my work out a bit since you mentioned my Ereshkigal.

    first, you can check my homebrew thread here; http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...omebrew-thread

    and I have a Storyteller's Vault product featuring a powerful Artifact 5 weapon here; https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...d-Glorybringer

    But with that out of the way, to discuss your real question, I'll highlight what I think makes something 'level up' as an artifact. I'll just talk about the difference between Artifact 3 and Artifact 5 and N/A, as Artifact 4 can fit into the middle there easily.

    To me, an Artifact 3 can offer a new way to fight, but won't push the boundaries of it, or it can just be a decent series of powers that doesn't highlight you as a fighter. Meanwhile, an Artifact 5 or N/A, on the opposite side of the scale; it should both offer you new ways to engage in combat, and be powerful in doing so. Then, to me, what would push an artifact over 5 to N/A is either the presence of a large or at least decent amount of charms that can be learned with no Experience cost, or a similar effect that applies for free. In Ereshkigal, you can see it in the seals, which grant increasing power as a baseline effect. For a different Artifact 5 I'm working on, it involves a series of charms learned no by spending Experience, but by leaning into the legend of the spear; a massive, powerful Direlance called Earth Breaker-, as an army-scattering natural disaster that sends men and beasts to the ground and creates earthquakes and landslides.

    For instance, your Dawn Bodyguard, just as he's the one who really seems to have an idea, if you're making an Artifact N/A Sword for him, I'd actually suggest looking into a few reference sources. I've been on a Devil May Cry kick lately, so to me, I'd look right to two ideas there; the Yamoto and Royal Guard style.

    Just as some hypothetical abilities such a sword might have;

    The Exalt can summon Phantoms that defend other allies without needing to be next to them, allowing him to defend more then one person at once. I'd put this with something like an Initiative Cost where the Exalt makes Phantoms with their paid Initiative in 'phantom' Initiative, and if the shade has that much Initiative damage done to it, it is destroyed.

    From there, I would make charms that give you benefits for having so many phantoms out; representing your Phantoms combining with you into powerful attacks with a Decisive Damage booster, or giving you the ability to exchange places with your phantom as a surprise effect to defend your allies. Then we have to look at his other effect; destroying weapons. If I was going to make a part of the weapon something learned by expanding and living in the legend, I'd make that; with charms that benefit from the Exalt disarming opponents rather then decisively attacking them leading to them learning new charms for disarming or defeating a foe without incapacitating them directly. This gives the Exalt a reward for following the play patterns that they themselves want to encourage, and lets them expand their abilities without having to pick charms that may not always be relevant.


    So basically, with Artifact 5s an N/As, I'd look at this; they should be useful for the character's combat style in that they offer the ability to shore up weaknesses and enhance strengths, then they should also offer either a new way to engage with the system that is generally outside the bounds of how that style of Exalt interacts with the system (A Solar Swordsman able to be in multiple places at once), and be very good in doing such a thing, or offer the ability to gain free 'power' by enticing the Exalt to work alongside the legend of that weapon and rewarding them with more Evocations for it..

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  • Alistair
    replied
    Artifact N/A: These artifacts are plot devices governed
    by Storyteller fiat, capable of accomplishing legendary
    miracles unlike anything else in Creation. Their
    Evocations do not simply have more power and mechanical
    advantage than those of lesser artifacts, but instead
    allow their wielders to accomplish things no other artifact
    could. They cannot resurrect the dead or enable
    time travel, but beyond that, they accomplish anything,
    flouting major conventions of the setting. Unlimited
    number of Evocations.

    Arms of the Chosen. Basically, this means that instead of trying to think "more power", you should probably think "weirder" and "rules-breaking". If we took the Mantle of Brigid as a potential N/A Artifact example, maybe its first Evocation allows you to immediately learn a sorcerer's shaping ritual by defeating them in battle, sorcerous competition, or studying under them; as the tree goes on, it allows you to cast spells you haven't learned under certain conditions, to absorb successfully "blocked" or countered/distorted spells to gain Sorcerous Motes equal to that spell's cost, to spend SM in order to gain initiative bonuses, or to add dangerous clauses to spells in order to make them even more powerful, with its Capstone being "Access the Solar Circle of Sorcery" if non-Solar, and for Solars and Infernals something more akin to "Instantly cast a Solar Ambition 2 or lesser working without need to pay XP, once a story, even if the story passes it cannot be reset until you make an actual Working of the same Circle and Ambition as the one you used this Evocation for" or w/e.

    Point being, they're powerful but they're more about "scale" and breaking setting conventions in their niche areas. Not to say they can't get some really potent mechanics, though.

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