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  • #16
    Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

    And we learn that the Anathema are freedom fighters who want to protect the people the Dragon-Blooded see as an acceptable loss.
    I didn't think this was too bad, as they do talk about whether the people believe the Anathema, implying they think the Anathema are lying, and they make it clear that the Outcaste isn't keen on killing the villagers. But I would have liked their belief in the Anathema's evil, and that the Anathema don't really care about the mortals, to be a bit more explicit.

    Just in case you were wondering kids, you'll be playing the Bad Guys this supplement.
    Well... yes? Isn't being an aristocrat the whole point of being a Dragonblood? My very first Dragonblood was ordered to poison another PC to drive him mad so he'd do something terrible and give the Empress would have an excuse to attack him. Our main plot arc was conquering innocent and free western islanders for glory and treasure. Later, we switched to conquering innocent and free Northerners for daring to ally with a ghost.

    To be fair, some of the Outcaste groups are fine. But the three main suggestions are a decadent, tyrannical and intolerant empire, a militarised state built on war-profiteering, and a different decadent, tyrannical and intolerant empire.

    Hey, anyone else think it's weird that the Anathema are wounded but the Dragon-Blooded are either dead or unharmed? Is that the withering/decisive ditchomoy?
    Either the Dragonblood were doing bashing, or the Anathema took ox-bodies and the Dragon-Blood didn't. Or the Dragonblood saved all their initiative for massive Withering attacks, while the Anathema were throwing out more decisives.

    The Empress has slept with a Tepet whom she's thinking of making a Magistrate (is she who we think she is? Probably, nice Easter Egg).
    Tepet Ejava? Could be, but I'm sure there are many scarred Tepet women.

    Any idea why were aren't killing this guy? No? Me neither.
    The Empress was always whispered to take captured Anathema into the Imperial Manse (once known as the Palace for Anathema) for unknown reasons. It's rather more explicit this edition.





    My characters:
    Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
    Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
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    • #17
      Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
      Chapter 3

      Another ten years and our sorcerer has been married off to a mortal with a powerful mother. He's unhappy with his lot: "climbing upwards out of pettiness and spite [...] all to avoid a fall [...] That's all any Dynast did [...] driven onwards by the corrosive bite of bitterness". Heroic. Inspiring. That's what I want for my character.
      I don't really remember thinking through the sexual dynamics of this, but I did find this one a bit lame. He just seems like a pretty boring and uninspiring character. I think it'd be fine for a chapter about a mortal dynast in the Realm. I assumed the point of this chapter was "sexism sucks for men in the Realm" but... yeah, he's pretty dull.

      Great fight between Novia Claro (remember her from the Corebook? Well she's out of Nexus an off to Jiara) and Mnemon with both using cool powers. Novia wounds Mnemon and has time to make quips and fetch her sword but is driven off by a Second Circle demon and mortal bodyguards. If she's slowed at all by Mnemon's attacks, it doesn't show.
      To be fair, Mnemon isn't a famous martial artist; she's the greatest sorcerer in the Realm. The only one who can bind a second circle demon to do her binding. So having such a powerful servant to fight Novia is her power here.

      Also, the Scarlet Empress stores Anathema in the Palace of the Anathema. That sounds kinda insane to me, but there you go.
      As I said, that's not exactly new (though the implication was that she sacrificed them previously). I think probably this is the sort of evil forbidden magic that most people in the Realm also think is insane, and anyone else who did it would get a quick head-chopping. But the Empress was up to some rather dodgy stuff in her underground demon-bunker.


      My characters:
      Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
      Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
      Avatar by Jen

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Croakamancer View Post
        haaate Chapter 1's story. Hate it hate it hate it HAAATE EET. Mostly because it's the story of Perfect Soul's Exaltation which I hate in general, and feel sets bad ideas about how Solar Exaltation should work. Soul doesn't get granted Exaltation because she was cool, because she was worthy... she got Exalted because she guilt-tripped the Sun into it through insulting him. That's ridiculous, pulling more from Bruce Almighty than anything more typically Exalted. Also we have TUS clearly blessing her as righteous and willing to act in his name throwing any ambiguity about the Solars out the window: guess Sol is totally with his chosen again now!

        I always got the read that she was Exalted because she had the stones to stand up to her God when she rightly felt he had abandoned her people and showed an unbending spirit and fortitude that would make for a good Zenith. The genre trope of holding the distant divine accountable is a good one and often hard to pull off in a game where so many divinities are reachable and knowable easily

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        • #19
          Taking Celestials alive seems way smarter to me than the Wyld Hunt's original MO which seems to be gambling on the idea that eventually the Anathema will get tired and stop reincarnating.



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          • #20
            That's a good point, I should have thought of that. I always thought putting Anathema in that suspended-animation cocoon spirit-charm seemed far more sensible long-term than killing them and letting them reincarnate somewhere else.

            After all, you keep killing them to stop them gaining experience and influence, but putting them in sorcerous sleep does the same thing.


            My characters:
            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
            Avatar by Jen

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            • #21
              In my opinion, the corebook chapter fiction generally spends too much time talking about how awesome Solars are in kind of boring and obvious ways, whereas the DB fiction - in which the signature Dragonblooded are portrayed as people with failings and weaknesses who are nevertheless willing to put their lives on the line for (what they consider to be) the greater good - far more compelling. The epilogue actually made me tear up a little, you can almost hear the swelling orchestral music behind it.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                (There's even a line about how sure Eshuvar is that the "youth" will consent -- ewwwwww.)
                Y'know, Eshuvar's fiction-piece might refer to his illicit paramour as a "youth" and "young," but it also clearly uses the word "man" to describe him, more than once, even.

                ​Hell, I consider a 25-year-old to be a "young man."

                Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                (There's even a line about how sure Eshuvar is that the "youth" will consent -- ewwwwww.)
                ​What's so gross about consenting to sex?

                Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                But this seems really tone deaf.
                Or it might be that your reading of the book is a touch uncharitable.
                Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 06-03-2019, 11:16 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Alpharius View Post


                  I always got the read that she was Exalted because she had the stones to stand up to her God when she rightly felt he had abandoned her people and showed an unbending spirit and fortitude that would make for a good Zenith. The genre trope of holding the distant divine accountable is a good one and often hard to pull off in a game where so many divinities are reachable and knowable easily
                  She doesn't though? She calls out Sol as absent, not uncaring. It's not like TUS was a presence in their lives like the local Jiaran gods and ignored her in some kind of visible way. How much courage does it really take to insult God in an empty church?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Croakamancer View Post

                    She doesn't though? She calls out Sol as absent, not uncaring. It's not like TUS was a presence in their lives like the local Jiaran gods and ignored her in some kind of visible way. How much courage does it really take to insult God in an empty church?
                    When God is provably real and you're in a spot that is known to be a direct line to him, and prayer is dialing his phone number.

                    To scream "FUCK YOU YOU NEGLECTFUL SELF-ABSORBED DICKWAD!" at him before Skyping you kicking his statue over.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Leliel View Post

                      When God is provably real and you're in a spot that is known to be a direct line to him, and prayer is dialing his phone number.

                      To scream "FUCK YOU YOU NEGLECTFUL SELF-ABSORBED DICKWAD!" at him before Skyping you kicking his statue over.
                      I dispute provably real. Outta context maybe but Sol hadn't answered their prayers in living memory and his shrine was long abandoned.

                      This remains off topic though. Anyone interested in continuing this, we should shift to a new thread or PMs

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                        Y'know, Eshuvar's fiction-piece might refer to his illicit paramour as a "youth" and "young," but it also clearly uses the word "man" to describe him, more than once, even.

                        ​Hell, I consider a 25-year-old to be a "young man."

                        ​What's so gross about consenting to sex?

                        Or it might be that your reading of the book is a touch uncharitable.
                        He's specifically mentioned as being on the cusp of maturing without Exalting. Which is called out as being 17 in chapter 1.

                        Consenting to sex isn't gross. Assuming your romantic paramore will definitely consent to sex is gross. Asking a sixteen year old for sex doesn't necessarily get an "ewww", but assuming they'll consent because you're a Dragon gets an "ewwww".

                        And I call it as I see it.

                        Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                        As I said, that's not exactly new (though the implication was that she sacrificed them previously). I think probably this is the sort of evil forbidden magic that most people in the Realm also think is insane, and anyone else who did it would get a quick head-chopping. But the Empress was up to some rather dodgy stuff in her underground demon-bunker.
                        Taking Anathema inside your giant war engine and feeding them to the unspeakable powers inside? Reasonable.

                        Keeping the most elusive thieves and infiltrators alive for fifty years and hoping they don't band together and escape is the insane part.

                        I like to think that big Red routinely purges the Anathema and the escape only happened due to her absence. 'Cause that, kinda, makes sense to me.
                        Last edited by JohnDoe244; 06-03-2019, 01:00 PM. Reason: Double post


                        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                          Consenting to sex isn't gross. Assuming your romantic paramore will definitely consent to sex is gross.
                          It might be a bit premature of this young Sesus to assume he'll consent, but on the other hand, his paramour is waiting at the window for Eshuvar, they've clearly been planning this for a while, and the guy's partly-naked already.

                          ​I'll admit, I'm not most people, but if I've been flirting with someone, and I invite them to come visit my place in the dead of night through my bedroom window, and I wait for them in something that leaves nothing to the imagination, I'd feel I've made it pretty clear that I'm okay with taking this relationship in a sexual direction.
                          Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 06-03-2019, 01:07 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                            Keeping the most elusive thieves and infiltrators alive for fifty years and hoping they don't band together and escape is the insane part.
                            I can see Lioness's point though; if you kill them so they can't escape, they'll just be reborn somewhere else, and being elusive thieves or infiltrators they'll be very difficult to catch.
                            At least for the time they're in prison they're not learning sorcery, or raising armies, or assassinating satraps.
                            (And there's always the traditional blinding. Possibly some amputation.*)

                            Keep your enemies close, and all that.

                            And it might be she had like, magical sleep-prisons or something, so they're completely inanimate and have no way to escape... until she stopped doing the rituals that maintain the enchantment and they all woke up and escaped, of course.

                            *Hmmm... blind crafter who had to make himself prosthetic hands and feet, then make himself out of a hellish ancient prison guarded by demons, then make his way out of the Imperial City and to the threshold, seems like a decent backstory.
                            Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 06-03-2019, 01:12 PM.


                            My characters:
                            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                            Avatar by Jen

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                              Well... yes? Isn't being an aristocrat the whole point of being a Dragonblood? My very first Dragonblood was ordered to poison another PC to drive him mad so he'd do something terrible and give the Empress would have an excuse to attack him. Our main plot arc was conquering innocent and free western islanders for glory and treasure. Later, we switched to conquering innocent and free Northerners for daring to ally with a ghost.

                              To be fair, some of the Outcaste groups are fine. But the three main suggestions are a decadent, tyrannical and intolerant empire, a militarised state built on war-profiteering, and a different decadent, tyrannical and intolerant empire.
                              I don't think being an aristocrat neccessarily means you're evil.

                              And (Apart from "Chapters One and Two") 2nd shied away from mustache twirling, The Seven-Degreed Physician of Black Maladies cackling evil portrayal of the PC splats. Whereas this struck me very much as "I ate them". IDK, maybe I am being uncharitable here, but I'd rather the splatbook show the heroes in a somewhat less prosaic light -- even if the Dynasts don't care about the peasant barbarians, you don't need to be so on-the-nose that the Anathema DO care in contrast. Not in the Dragon-Blooded splat book. Tell the same story from a different POV if it's so important.

                              Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                              *Hmmm... blind crafter who had to make himself prosthetic hands and feet, then make himself out of a hellish ancient prison guarded by demons, then make his way out of the Imperial City and to the threshold, seems like a decent backstory.
                              Oh I openly and unreservedly agree that What Fire Has Wrought makes me want to play a Solar. I've drafted three since reading it.
                              Last edited by JohnDoe244; 06-03-2019, 01:38 PM.


                              Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

                                I don't think being an aristocrat neccessarily means you're evil.
                                Well, you could give up your title, like Tony Benn. My parents have a friend whose family were a minor cadet line of the Hapsburgs, his grandad was a baron, with a place in the House of Lords, and gave it up.

                                But no, obviously I'm being somewhat hyperbolic. Being born into a life of undeserved privelege doesn't automatically make you evil; you didn't choose to take someone else's place. And morality is a complex thing; many of our Dragonblood characters wouldn't murder a baby while cackling, or work with Anathema, or rape a prisoner... but they absolutely would sign a bit of paper telling Realm troops to do whatever was necessary to put down a rebellion. Same way I'm not sure I would characterise Winston Churchill as simply "evil", yet he oversaw our suppression of the Mau Mau (complete with torture camps). Or indeed, most of our Kings, who I'm sure often did what they thought was right, while actually brutalising the peasantry and bankrupting the country just to get themselves more land or whatever.

                                But the Dynasts are the bad guys, and I think it's fine for the characters in the story to point out "most Dynasts would be willing to sacrifice villagers to stop Anathema", and the hero to rankle, but admit that's probably true (hard situations need hard choices).

                                even if the Dynasts don't care about the peasant barbarians, you don't need to be so on-the-nose that the Anathema DO care in contrast.
                                As I said, I think maybe the idea here is that the Dynasts maybe kind of think the Anathema don't care about the people, they're just tricking them... but it's not very clear, and definitely could be more explicit.


                                My characters:
                                Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                                Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                                Avatar by Jen

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