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  • LostLight
    started a topic The Civil War Thread

    The Civil War Thread

    Everyone knows it is coming, everyone are waiting for it- the only questions are "how" and "when". With the Realm being Creation's greatest and only superpower, the effects of its internal struggle and potential war would impact most of the known world, if not all of it. No one knows how it would end up- but the chances are that even if the end result would be a brighter future, we first need to go through a catastrophe rightfully called the Time of Tumult.
    The main reason I'm making this thread is because in the last nights I was apparently so invested in reading the Realm, that I actually started dreaming about how the different Houses would divide themselves when the Civil War would finally erupt. As such, I've decided to share how I would play the Civil War- not its outcome, of course, but how I would like things to roll, more or less. While it was first planned to be a single, quit short discussion about the project, it then grew into a few posts material which ended up with 17-Incarna-damn-long-pages-of-possible-scenario. Hope you'll enjoy reading it. Please, feel are to comment on it in here and share your own visions of the Civil War and its key characters (which is does not have to be 17 pages long document, but things do tend to go out of control..).

  • Kleptomania
    replied
    Originally posted by HamSandLich View Post

    I'd imagine that Lookshy wouldn't immediately intervene in the war, let the Dynasts tear each other apart before they move in for the kill.
    Oh, naturally. Should the war go on long enough, though, I could see it.

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  • HamSandLich
    replied
    Originally posted by Kleptomania View Post
    I find myself wondering if the other major Dragon-Blooded groups might get involved in the civil war.
    What if Lookshy wanted to make a bid to take control of the Realm? What if one of the Great Houses managed to secure them as an ally? If nothing else, I could definitely see them assisting the Realm if the Silver Pact ends up launching an attack-... After all, who are the Lunar Exalted likely to target first if they seize the Sword of Creation?
    If civil war breaks out, Prasad is in a good position to gain its independence. But what if Clan Burano and Ophris want more than that? They might want to back a claimant to the throne who they think would be favourable to the interests of their own empire-... Maybe even marry into the new ruling family. Prasad is very far away, so I imagine that most of the support it could offer would consist of financial aid and potentially the disruption of nearby satrapies loyal to enemy houses, but they could probably lend some military forces to their allies.
    I'd imagine that Lookshy wouldn't immediately intervene in the war, let the Dynasts tear each other apart before they move in for the kill.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kleptomania
    replied
    I find myself wondering if the other major Dragon-Blooded groups might get involved in the civil war.
    What if Lookshy wanted to make a bid to take control of the Realm? What if one of the Great Houses managed to secure them as an ally? If nothing else, I could definitely see them assisting the Realm if the Silver Pact ends up launching an attack-... After all, who are the Lunar Exalted likely to target first if they seize the Sword of Creation?
    If civil war breaks out, Prasad is in a good position to gain its independence. But what if Clan Burano and Ophris want more than that? They might want to back a claimant to the throne who they think would be favourable to the interests of their own empire-... Maybe even marry into the new ruling family. Prasad is very far away, so I imagine that most of the support it could offer would consist of financial aid and potentially the disruption of nearby satrapies loyal to enemy houses, but they could probably lend some military forces to their allies.

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  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    Yeah, there's a lot of cases where Houses are allied but don't much like each other, or opposed but their interests align, or so on. So it can go different ways.

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  • BrilliantRain
    replied
    Regarding the three “teams” that fans came up with, one of the things I like about WFHW is that none of the House Alliances are simple. So, while that set up is plausible, there’s enough standing in the way and enough other ways things could break, that pretty much any configuration of House alliances could happen. Which is nice.

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  • LostLight
    replied
    So lately I've started to think about what would cause an House who doesn't has a likely contender to the throne to try and push one of their scions to become an Empress- for example, House Ledaal.

    The scenario I have in mind is that during her fight against the Solars in Jiara, Mnemon was killed by the Anathema. Seeing their nemesis falling in the battlefied (together with many of House Mnemon's soldiers, I assume), House Ragara arrange an assassination to get V'neef killed, and then use their influence over holding most of the other Houses in debt in order to claim the throne under a Ragara Emperor. After taking the throne and disposing of Fokuf, the Emperor starts making reforms in the Empire, which includes the official dissolution of Houses Mnemon, V'neef and Tepet, as well as trying to cause House Nellens to fall apart and take control over the patrician families. Many of those reforms also slowly weaken the power of the Immaculate Order, and are meant to encourage investigation of the occult and other strange phenomena.

    While his reign brings stability to the Realm, the fact is that Banoba's rule is not popular- some of the reforms cause uprisings among citizens, and the Emperor does not fear to use force in order to silence them. Eventually, an agent of the All Seeing Eye (perhaps an Iselsi) manages to find some proof for the forbidden practices of House Ragara and presents it to House Ledaal, which have also suffered from the new reforms. The House, after quietly moving to its satrapies, presents the proof publicaly and denounce the Emperor and his house as heretics. House Nellens and the shattered remains of Houses Tepet, Mnemon and V'neef support House Ledaal's claims, as well as House Nellens. The Immaculate Order is divided between wanting to maintain the peace and accepting the claims- yet it is likely that if the proof is strong enough the Order would support Ledaal. Meanwhile, Houses Cynis and Sesus would support the Emperor, due to some financial arrangements in their debts done in advance, as well as House Cathak (for the need to maintain stability). House Peleps declares independence from the Realm and goes to establish its own Western Empire, while House Iselsi keeps on watching and keeps their knives sharp.

    Or maybe something like that. A much simpler scenario than the most, with only two factions- one having legitimacy and no power, and the other having power without legitimacy. And House Peleps becoming independent, which is a popular scenario from what I can see. I now wonder what other strange scenarios could lead some of the other Houses- such as Sesus or Nellens, or even Iselsi- to try and claim the throne for themselves.

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  • Grelkis
    replied
    My personal take on the Realm Civil War divides the Houses themselves into sub-factions based on the candidates they support. I think treating the Houses as monolithic power blocs is fine and certainly makes them easier to manage (especially in terms of consistent characterisation), but to me it makes more sense to align factions within the Realm with candidates for the throne rather than along House lines.

    In the campaign I'm running there are several factions in the Realm and each is aligned behind a candidate or set of candidates. For instance, the conservative Swordgrass Faction support a duumvirate of Ledaal Rae and Peleps Lai, to be appointed as Consuls of the Greater Deliberative until the Empress' return. They draw support from young and middle-aged members of House Ledaal and House Peleps, a scattering of Loyalist youths and deeply conservative elders from the other Houses, veteran Outcastes expelled from the Legions along with some Loyalist defectors, a significant portion of the Foreign Office and some chapters of the Immaculate Order, particularly those which harbour sympathies for the Imperial Cult or have a long history of political meddling.

    I've found this approach made it easier to involve a wider cross-section of the Realm in the Civil War without having to spend a while calculating House influence in the Imperial Service and suchlike. When it's candidate-based you can simply consider how the candidate's policies might appeal to different power blocs and you can also create interesting conflicts where sections of the Houses, the Immaculate Order and other factions turn against one another.

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  • Kleptomania
    replied
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
    Oban? I don't remember who that is.
    Son of the Empress, married to the matriarch of House Sesus.

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  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    Oban? I don't remember who that is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kleptomania
    replied
    If I were to run a Civil War scenario in play, I'd have a lot of the particulars up to PCs, but this is one idea for how things might go down.

    Peleps and V'neef get into a fight, starting off the war. Nellens and Tepet support V'neef. Cathak and Ragara support Peleps. Mnemon waits until things get heated, then joins up with Cynis and Sesus to take over the Imperial City. Ledaal offers tacit support to Mnemon, but in practice remains neutral, not wanting to get on the bad side of all their neighbours. Mnemon allies with House Ferem.
    If Mnemon looks close to winning, Iselsi launches their surprise attack on Mnemon-Darjilis, but if it looks too weak Sesus decides to make its own bid for the throne. If Ragara looks too weak, Cathak probably pulls out of their alliance, which would probably result in Peleps sailing west to make their own empire (with blackjack and hookers) - more or less leaving Ragara unable to compete on its own.
    I like the idea that, essentially, the original 'factions form around the various 'housed' children of the Empress wanting to make their own bid - Mnemon, Ragara and V'neef. But, by the end of things, all of these original candidates would be dead, leading to different primary claimants, with there still being a certain amount of 'legitimacy' being placed around the Empress' other children - Berit, Oban and Ivoret, if he ends up Exalting. If those claimants die, then it becomes well and truly anyone's game.

    Whoever gets the throne, the Silver Pact is probably going to invade shortly after - if the war goes on long enough, they probably won't even wait that long.
    Last edited by Kleptomania; 06-07-2019, 08:53 PM.

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  • Kelly Pedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
    There are enough wedges between Cynis, Ragara, and Sesus that a three-way alliance between them strikes me as unlikely.

    While I don't think it's an automatically obvious outcome, I'm not sure I'd characterize it as unlikely. It seems to me that the situation kind of pushes things that way - Ragara seems pretty likely to be one "pole" of the civil war, given how Mnemon feels about the whole House - they're likely to be inevitably opposed. And Mnemon is at least tentatively aligned with Cathak, who opposes Sesus both on personal and economic grounds. Cynis is sort of the odd one out of the three, in that it seems to try to cultivate good relationships with more Houses on the "other sides" than Ragara or Sesus do. On the other hand, Cynis is deeply tied to Sesus, so they seem likely to be pulled into that alliance even if they'd rather not - the other Houses are likely to treat them as Sesus' allies anyway, and Mnemon has personal animosity towards them. Of course, Ragara and Sesus are battling over Tepet's Threshold holdings, but WFHW does point out that Ragara is trying to avoid harming their economic relationship due to that, so somewhat mitigating bad feelings.

    My own analysis of the situation is that there are definitely more than two "poles" in the Houses, but the exact strength and number of the alliances beyond the first two are tricky. I'd say the first two obvious alliances are, as I mentioned above, Ragara-Sesus-Cynis, and Mnemon-Cathak-Ledaal-Peleps. The second alliance is actually a bit less united than the first, which weakens it, despite it having more Houses. Cathak is trying to stay neutral, meaning that they're probably only in the alliance because their rival Sesus is in the other one. Peleps, meanwhile, is more interested in founding its Western Empire. Only Mnemon and Ledaal really strike me as strong allies.

    Meanwhile, the remaining Houses form a third group, but not necessarily an aligned one. V'neef is probably the one most obviously opposed to the other two alliances - She and Mnemon have personal animosity between them, while House Ragara doesn't like them because V'neef has stayed out of debt and is an economic competitor. Tepet has a traditional rivalry with Sesus, and feels betrayed by Cathak. However, it's quite badly off militarily, so the other Houses aligning with it could provoke responses from its military rivals without providing any useful troops to counter. Meanwhile, Nellens is viewed as an upstart and too Patrician-friendly by members of both the other alliances, and is another commercial rival by Ragara. But it's also a traditional rival to V'neef, making an alliance less likely. If it were to join one of the other alliances, the Mnemon-led one seems more likely to me, since that group lacks a real economic powerHouse, and so might swallow their snobbery long enough to make nice.


    Of course, all this is just my read on "most likely" outcome. But I wouldn't call it all that much more likely than many other possible breakdowns, and certainly, the situation can change radically once interesting people, like the PCs, get involved.

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  • MoroseMorgan
    replied
    I can see how it may not be so clear cut, but at least as presented in WFHW the lines were net green, even if complicated.

    In the Cynis section there is a paragraph about how they are indebted to Ragara to the point of it being a problem. Maybe the chart OP thought that being indebted they would be inclined to act with them instead of against them? I guess because under the Ragara section there is a part about Ragara trying to align with Cynis and Sesus and not calling out any obstacles. The Sesus section says they are close, but it's complicated, with Cynis, and doesn't mention Ragara.

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  • HamSandLich
    replied
    Originally posted by Epee102 View Post

    damn I was rooting for the formation of Team Bastards

    This is the Realm, everyone's their own special type of Bastard.

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  • Epee102
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
    There are enough wedges between Cynis, Ragara, and Sesus that a three-way alliance between them strikes me as unlikely.
    damn I was rooting for the formation of Team Bastards

    Leave a comment:

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