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Houserules for Artifacts and Resonance

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  • pcontop
    started a topic Houserules for Artifacts and Resonance

    Houserules for Artifacts and Resonance

    As things stand now, we have a situation where there are artifacts that are resonant, dissonant and neutral with some exalted types, but they cost exactly the same, be their costs as merits, or their evocations. This is not a problem for the solars, who are resonant with everything. But for other exalted, it leaves something to be desired. It discourages the purchase of out of type artifacts, and that reduces the value of artifact companions such as Arms of the Chosen, because they come with very few artifacts of the same material.

    What I want to accomplish is to make varied artifacts a little more 'cost-beneficial', and less of an explicitly bad idea. If you have a concept that makes for your character having an out-of-type artifact, you shouldn't have to be penalized for this.
    • The artifact merit costs one point less for out-of-type materials. So, a dragonblooded that got a level 3 starmetal artifact gets to pay 2 dots at character creation, not three. This represents the fact that such artifacts are not so desirable for the characters and in-universe, as equivalent artifacts of the correct material.
    • Evocations can be purchased in three levels: Dissonant level costs <normal cost -2>xp, Neutral level cost <normal cost> xp, and Resonant level costs <normal cost + 2> xp. This is evocation by evocation - evocations that don't have a resonant or dissonant effect are, by definition, neutral.
    For extra flexibility, a character may even choose to attune with a lower level of an evocation. For instance, he could purchase an evocation at dissonant level, for less XP, and later (if the evocation has a resonant level and is resonant with the character) upgrade it to a higher level by paying the difference.

    So what are your ideas on that?


  • Aleks
    replied
    Originally posted by pcontop View Post

    But is really worth to purchase a whole evocation just to get rid of dissonance ou getting resonance? I mean, resonance is usually good, but rarely that good. Perhaps if those evocations did something more than just upping the resonance, but then we go to the custom evocation land again. For more mechanically-minded players, this would seem to be just the same as not allowing the option in the first place.
    Agreed. It would not always be worth it. In the example I am thinking about the player with a Dragon-Blooded character owns Heartsbalm and wanted the resonant effect for Heart-Forged Aegis, extending the duration from one turn to one scene, which he had no hesitation with paying for a new Evocation to gain.

    Some resonant effects I myself consider so minor I would never expend an Evocation slot to achieve it (the above example I would be OK with, though), but if the players are happy with it, who am I to say no.

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  • Sunder the Gold
    replied
    Originally posted by Alistair View Post
    Solution: "Uh, guys, this is totally not Gnomon, this is its Blue Jade brother Chronos. Totally guys. Swear on me mum. Has all of Gnomon's Evocations and pretty much works the same way though."
    Or learn Wood-aspected Evocations for Gnomon that grow some other kind of fruit. One that won't be as powerful, but one that can be grown far more often.

    Can you survive one whole year between each Celestial Peach? Surviving a whole year would be easier with twelve Marvelous Peaches that heal injuries.

    Leave a comment:


  • pcontop
    replied
    Originally posted by Aleks View Post
    If a player in your gaming group really wants a resonant effect - or wants to buy off a dissonant effect - we usually do it as a repurchase or a new Evocation that enhances the existing one. So far, it is a solution everyone is happy with, but in our group, we also tend to value style over substance for the most part.
    But is really worth to purchase a whole evocation just to get rid of dissonance ou getting resonance? I mean, resonance is usually good, but rarely that good. Perhaps if those evocations did something more than just upping the resonance, but then we go to the custom evocation land again. For more mechanically-minded players, this would seem to be just the same as not allowing the option in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aleks
    replied
    If a player in your gaming group really wants a resonant effect - or wants to buy off a dissonant effect - we usually do it as a repurchase, or a new Evocation that enhances the existing one. So far, it is a solution everyone is happy with, but in our group we also tend to value style over substance for the most part.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iceblade44
    replied
    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


    Interesting, but sounds like more of a simple benefit that would go better with a hearthstone perhaps - in fact 1e had one that would fit, the Gem of Immortality, if memory tricks me not.
    As an artifact, what kind of evocations' tree could spring from that as a starting point, or lead into that as its pinnacle effect?
    I would have the effect as the capstone, with the other evocations building up to it. As for the other Evocations, I have some ideas. Mainly on those of self reflection and enlightenment. Building off from some concepts in Integrity and Survival

    Leave a comment:


  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    I have been musing around an idea of a green jade staff that does give a sort of immortality and a longer life. Specifically the jade staff of the Dragon-Blooded in Dreams of the First Age who lived for over thousands of years from sheer enlightenment. That is see as a pretty dope legend to turn into an Artifact

    Interesting, but sounds like more of a simple benefit that would go better with a hearthstone perhaps - in fact 1e had one that would fit, the Gem of Immortality, if memory tricks me not.
    As an artifact, what kind of evocations' tree could spring from that as a starting point, or lead into that as its pinnacle effect?

    Leave a comment:


  • Alistair
    replied
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post

    Well, they don't have books, that seems kind of an issue.

    But if you're happy with them, great. Sounds like you're happy with Lunars too.

    For DBs, Heirloom is a bonus for Dynasts, it's not a penalty for Outcastes. You buy the first charm, like you would for most Artefacts.
    (And... maybe you can claim your Outcaste is descended from a certain dynasty on their great-grandma's side)

    But I will agree with you that the artefacts in WFHW aren't that exciting. I mean, I guess that's subjective, but I didn't find them very exciting for the most part. Some I kind of liked. But the ones in Arms and Lunars were better.

    I am definitely happy with Lunars.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iceblade44
    replied
    I have been musing around an idea of a green jade staff that does give a sort of immortality and a longer life. Specifically the jade staff of the Dragon-Blooded in Dreams of the First Age who lived for over thousands of years from sheer enlightenment. That is see as a pretty dope legend to turn into an Artifact

    Leave a comment:


  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    I'm fine with most of that explanation except the "tides of time". Time-control just isn't a jade thing, even if you metaphorically describe it as water-like.

    Certainly growing a magic peach of life seems fine for green jade.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnDoe244
    replied
    Originally posted by Alistair View Post


    Some Artifacts lend themselves better to this kind of translation than others. Gnomon is VERY difficult to translate to other materials, though you could make a case for Moonsilver or Orichalcum
    "Not-Gnomon was forged by the architect of the Usurpation to represent the covenant between the Sidreals as the agents of heaven and the Terrestrials who would inherit Creation.

    It is said that a borough of the purest green jade, harvested from the Elemental Pole of Wood was grafted onto one of the sacred Peach Trees of Immortality in the Heavenly City. The tree was faithfully watered with Perfected Water for seven nights until viens of blue and black jade appeared in the borough. The limb was then ritually burned with the Flames of Kesiah and quenched in powdered earth from mount Meru until veins of white and red jade appeared. When this artifical limb finally bore fruit, it was severed from the tree by Chejop Kejak. Such was the Sidreal's understanding of endings, that fate itself failed to realise the borough was no longer part of the tree.

    The blue jade in this wrackstaff allows it's wielder to anticipate the intent of its wielders opponents, the red jade speeds the wielder's movements, the black jade eases the flow of martial arts and turns the tide of time itself whilst the white jade grants the perfect calm and clarity needed to seemingly immobilise the world around its wielder.

    But it is the living Essence of Green Jade that grants Not-Gnomen its greatest power -- the ability to grow Peaches of Immortality.

    Not-Gnomen is seeped in Heavenly Essence, and carries with it the enduring stamp of Chejop Kejak's Celestial Essence. Any Sidereal Exalted or god who works for the Bureau of Destiny believes the staff’s wielder is a legitimate agent of Heaven. This is equivalent to a Minor Tie of trust."
    Last edited by JohnDoe244; 06-15-2019, 04:19 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    Originally posted by Alistair View Post
    Siddies and Abyssals don't have that many mechanical hurdles that I know of, if anything they're doing pretty great; both get Celestial Sorcery, one gets Void Necromancy, both have dope Artifacts ready for them in Arms, both get Mastery and access to SMA and one of them has SMA Mastery-like benefits.
    Well, they don't have books, that seems kind of an issue.

    But if you're happy with them, great. Sounds like you're happy with Lunars too.

    For DBs, Heirloom is a bonus for Dynasts, it's not a penalty for Outcastes. You buy the first charm, like you would for most Artefacts.
    (And... maybe you can claim your Outcaste is descended from a certain dynasty on their great-grandma's side)

    But I will agree with you that the artefacts in WFHW aren't that exciting. I mean, I guess that's subjective, but I didn't find them very exciting for the most part. Some I kind of liked. But the ones in Arms and Lunars were better.
    Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 06-15-2019, 03:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alistair
    replied
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
    I think there's over 20 Jade artefacts, and about 20 moonsilver artefacts. That seems like plenty.

    Starmetal and soulsteel are very restricted though. But if you're playing a Sidereal or Abyssal, I think you've got bigger mechanical hurdles to deal with than lack of Resonance.

    The Jade Artifacts in the DB book are not exactly great in their majority, and having to rule out the whole Heirloom thing to allow Outcastes or Lookshians or w/e those Artifacts is a bit messy, let alone the whole "Evocations are 12 XP" deal that makes Dissonant or Neutral Artifacts even less desirable. Moonsilver ones are great mostly, with some exceptions, so Lunars have more freedom when it comes to picking those. Siddies and Abyssals don't have that many mechanical hurdles that I know of, if anything they're doing pretty great; both get Celestial Sorcery, one gets Void Necromancy, both have dope Artifacts ready for them in Arms, both get Mastery and access to SMA and one of them has SMA Mastery-like benefits.

    Leave a comment:


  • Flare
    replied
    If there's anything that's missing to me it's armor. Especially Jade armor, which we only have 2 examples of.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    I think there's over 20 Jade artefacts, and about 20 moonsilver artefacts. That seems like plenty.

    Starmetal and soulsteel are very restricted though. But if you're playing a Sidereal or Abyssal, I think you've got bigger mechanical hurdles to deal with than lack of Resonance.

    Leave a comment:

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