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  • Eldagusto
    started a topic Playing New Gods

    Playing New Gods

    So is there anything wrong with making Gods or spirits playable, especially after we get a Gods book?

    I mean we encouraged Raksha PCs but downplayed spirit PC.

    I’m thinking by the time we get the Exingents book you could use the rules to reverse engineer god charms. Basically the big issue was always Gods tended to stagnate and grow indolent. But that wasn’t true for Elementals. And you could always be a Human recently uplifted to Godhood so you could have kept your human heart and spirit and emotions but have a divine body. Or be a brand new god, maybe even the child two potent gods, and you are just the rare type of god that seeks to grow and expand, perhaps because you lack an inherent Purview so you attach to an Exalted Circle.

    Or you could even be a Spirit Created by the Circle. Maybe even using the Ghost or Body of a dead Circlemate as ingredients. Or a mortal family member.

    I know we will get Exigents and that fits most of the concepts I had but just tossing something out there. After all apotheosis is achievable with Sorcery Worked upon you, but to get an Exigency Exaltation you have to be a lucky god.

    I don’t see the harm in it. It would be a particularly useful option for Players that can’t make every game.

  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

    I would imagine then they wouldn’t start at essence one if you were in a group with Solars and Lunars. After all if you have a Dragonblooded in the group they would start at essence 2. So depending on the spirit start them at essence 3 or even 4. Especially if they are the child of truly potent gods or created through Sorcery and thus comparable to a 2nd circle demon.

    I guess it all depends on a particular game's circunstances. In one online game i started as the Twilight's Blood Ape (and irregular 6th PC), then mistress sacrificed it so she could finish off a pair of enemy bosses - just so she could in the following night toy with fusing Blood Ape, Raksha noble, ghost priest-warlord (Doppelganger), a Vaktri and a Garda Bird through ​Ephemeral Induction Technique.

    It didn't quite go as she desired - the "Raksha Noble" was actually a less puisant (Ess2) Cataphract body double, and the Garda (Ess4, while the Twilight was Ess3) proved much too powerful to be "processed" like that, (leading to its very displeased return and attempt to kill the Twilight), but the resulting Ess2 Fae-Demon-Ghost-Elemental servant still proved quite useful due to the peculiar combination of powers from its varied parts, even with mixed up limitations here and there.

    He even managed to scare off Mara & Alveua (actually perfect replicas made in the 1st Age by some eccentric sorcerer, but i digress) in one occasion due to the right combo of charms, what was awesome. And a blessing, because due to iron vulnerability Alveua could go through him like a hot knife on butter if that giant hammer of hers ever touched him!! XD

    Anyway, even if you are not the mightiest kicker of behinds in the curb, a spirit PC may have a considerable range of versatility for one to find a strong niche into depending on what a player and ST manage to set up in relation starting concept, possible paths of growth and such. I never went beyond Ess2 with my patchwork spirit, "the Asura of Ghost-Flame" as he eventually came to call itself, and was quite happy with perusing the old tricks of "his component parts" and coming up woth ways to bring them back in tweaked form.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 10-26-2019, 09:29 AM.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I think the thing about playing gods is that, going by most of the examples that we've got so far, the capabilities of gods at lower Essence levels is sharply limited in comparison to the Exalted.

    I mean, if you're part of a mixed group and you're all starting out, your Essence 1 god can't accomplish much. You seem to kind of need to be around Essence 5 before you start getting powers with a sophistication comparable to that of the Exalted (although still with more limited scope).

    If there's a question of fudging the usual standards of how their powers work, or being very heavily reliant on the use of sorcery and martial arts, well... I know that the powers aren't the be-all end-all of gameplay experience, but it does still leave me asking what the appeal is.
    I would imagine then they wouldn’t start at essence one if you were in a group with Solars and Lunars. After all if you have a Dragonblooded in the group they would start at essence 2. So depending on the spirit start them at essence 3 or even 4. Especially if they are the child of truly potent gods or created through Sorcery and thus comparable to a 2nd circle demon.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post

    Also, they're material, which I think makes them easier to stick with a party in some ways.

    Yes, they are part of the material world on all levels relating to it in a level far more personal than gods with their sanctums and comings & goings from Yu-Shan.
    Even those inhabiting fantastic places, like cloud citadels in the sky and so on affected and are affected by Creation in far more direct ways. One might say Fakharu's personal island and romance with the princess of some unamed western nation may be seen as a reflection of this.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 06-26-2019, 11:41 AM.

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  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


    Elementals should be fine too, even easier to fit in a game, as origin-wise they can come from backgrounds with quite varied levels between mundane and fantastic.
    Also, they're material, which I think makes them easier to stick with a party in some ways.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    I feel like the most playable sort of god would be one of those rogue terrestrial gods that wanders about starting up prayer rackets and then running off when the Immaculates show up.

    Elementals should be fine too, even easier to fit in a game, as origin-wise they can come from backgrounds with quite varied levels between mundane and fantastic.

    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    I think the thing about playing gods is that, going by most of the examples that we've got so far, the capabilities of gods at lower Essence levels is sharply limited in comparison to the Exalted.
    I don't know - due to schedule reasons i ended up entering a game as the twilight's erymanthus familiar and had some fun with it even though he was quite vanilla with no addittions and (almost) no homebrew. But then he died through his mistress Carnal Spirit Rending and came back fused with a Raksha, a ghost and an Vaktri (elemental), what made him into a royal mess of sorts (but endlessly entertaining in the process) and never went beyond its initial Essence 2.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 06-26-2019, 09:18 AM.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    I think the thing about playing gods is that, going by most of the examples that we've got so far, the capabilities of gods at lower Essence levels is sharply limited in comparison to the Exalted.

    I mean, if you're part of a mixed group and you're all starting out, your Essence 1 god can't accomplish much. You seem to kind of need to be around Essence 5 before you start getting powers with a sophistication comparable to that of the Exalted (although still with more limited scope).

    If there's a question of fudging the usual standards of how their powers work, or being very heavily reliant on the use of sorcery and martial arts, well... I know that the powers aren't the be-all end-all of gameplay experience, but it does still leave me asking what the appeal is.

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  • Elfive
    replied
    I feel like the most playable sort of god would be one of those rogue terrestrial gods that wanders about starting up prayer rackets and then running off when the Immaculates show up.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Ahlat's bow is in the core book.

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  • Iceblade44
    replied
    Yeah that's probably a question for the devs since I've heard nothing about panoplies this ed

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Wow see Baaldam get it! You were the one that suggested the rule that Elementals that Sorcerers create get added to the Universal templates right? Good rule.


    And what about Divine Panoplies, are they still a thing? I should ask in the ask the dev thread. But Evocations could be a unique source of power for spirits and due to their nature I would imagine they are more easily able to have non combat Evocations then mortals as they are tied to their Panoplies and they are symbolic of the spirit. But 3rd ed concentrated on Artifacts made for the Exalted, so I don’t know if they will still be a thing. The Gods seem to replace the concept of an Artifacts spirit and their Panoplies seem to be an extension of themselves. Though they could still probably use Acquired Artifacts quite handily!

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Aoi Cobalt View Post
    As an elemental, I get powers associated with my element, but that just really makes me a cut-rate Dragonblooded.
    Only if you think the end-all, be-all of their characterization and roleplaying opportunities are in their powers (that might be said, could among other things explore some aspects of elemental associations we see more of in artifacts or hearthstones than DB charms, on a little aside), what i don't think is quite the case. Through elementals you can play as:

    - Members and heirs of races old beyond measure. Before men, before beasts, and some say before even the gods, elementals have stalked Creation, birthed into the world from the interplay of the world’s natural energies. Allies, enemies, lovers, rivals, sworn-kin or more to Dragon Kings, Jadeborn, Lintha and a number of the strange beings inhabiting still in the shores of the Dreaming Sea or in hidden places below the earth, sea, over the clouds and others besides.

    - The ingenue or alien being, more ignorant of the ways of mortal and spirit society than the most fresh-faced of peasants, as alien as in its own ways as demons or raksha from beyond the Creation and yet connected and resonant with its nature and primal forces in an intrisic and personal not even the gods are. Beings that may find themselves in the role of beast, plant, hero, villain, god or devil in time, either cast on it by circunstances and the teachings (or manipulations) of others, carving a niche of their own from will and their experiences, or a mix of both. In that they can find themselves in a place similar but yet different from the recently exalted, as no memories of past lives, patron deity or religious tradition is (supposed) to guide or inspire them.

    (In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if the first exposure of many elementals to the idea of themselves as divine or at least supernatural was through the perspective, first contacts and interaction with mortals, what in itself may bring an interesting twist and angles to their variegated stories)

    - Forces of nature and myth given form. Be a child born from a giant peach, fiery-eyed men & women sprang fully formed from the ember-fangs of a dying bonfire that roared as a dragon, a woman formed of the echoes of a young man screaming his sorrows at love lost/rejected in a interesting time and place, if auspicious or unauspicious, who can say. Storm fronts, forest fires, earthquakes, mudslides, deep ocean currents, lightning strikes and blizzards, the heat-haze of the desert and the crushing force of the avalanche are their careless unresponsive deadbeat parents of sorts. No exalt can be that.

    - Living, breathing fruits of a sorcerer's will. Freshly born spirit child whose first act is to either rebel/reject or accept thralldom under its maker. Those particular elementals, originated from the sorcerer's knowledge, ignorance, desires and fancy as much as the elements themselves, may become even more idiosyncratic due to both their origins and their experiences through the period of servitude to the one who molded them. Some may reflect already existing races because it's what the sorcerer needed or wanted, others unique due to combination of desires conscious & unconscious, experimentation and/or a lack of attention/focus in all details or other motives – and if they will stay forever that way or develop through desire or happenstance into the seed of new races, that can be a hook to many tales, i guess.

    This process also brings to mind for me images of "matter given form and life", what in itself opens room for one to play with concepts such as the faulty or mistreated creation that turns on its creator like Frankenstein's monster or Prague's Golem, a person made as ideal partners for their makers or others (Galatea, Nephele,Bride of Frankenstein), some sort of weird riff on Adam (Lilith) & Eve, FMA's homunculi or whatever shenaningans one feels like out of the "designer people/monster" angle.


    Originally posted by Aoi Cobalt View Post
    And Dragonblooded, some Lunars, and Solars are going to show up to stuff me back in the box they think I belong in; and they have the power to do it too!
    Or they might not, it's not always an auto-trump situation. +1-2 Might can be a handicap but doesn't have to be a game-breaker.

    Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
    Definitely. It is the sorcery and martial arts that the spirit character is really going to expand himself in.

    Something that might be entertaining would be a spirit version of carnal spirit rending. But make it so you devour their portfolio and domain. So that for a time, say until Yu-shan can direct a replacement entity to take on the fallen's post, the spirit character is able to affect the domain of the fallen spirit like he was that spirit.

    So say you kill and devour Uvanavu, you gain his personal charms over health until yu-shan assigns a replacement.

    But...maybe that is overpowered.
    Well, that tricks hits a little too close to the portfolio of one certain forbidden god in Rathess, so i would call for a tithe of sorts at minimum. And Han-tha usually charges in flesh.


    But now more seriously, well, i think the fandom makes far more of a deal of "spirits don't usually evolve" than it was ever supposed to be.
    "Gods change when its narratively appropriate" is more of a convenient narrative conceit to avoid "millenia-old immortal has every skill maxed and all tricks in the book" syndrome and a setting where every spirit that remembers the Usurpation has to be an Ess4+ monster than anything. Raksha have pretty much the same conceptually and yet had XP costs & etc in previous editions - just tweak from there and you should be fine, has worked wonderfully for years for me.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 06-25-2019, 10:44 PM.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    I can see a sorcerously Created spirit having something akin to Hantha’s devouring power, so that could work.

    2nd ed Gods couldn’t learn new charms without a promotion but we don’t know how 3rd ed works do we?

    But Demons and Elementals could always learn new charms with growth. And a sorcerously Created spirit that is neither god or elemental or demon should have rather nebulous limits.

    They won’t have all the potential to learn charms for every skill like exalts but few Exalts dip into being good at everything. So just say you have the capacity to develop powers in the direction your interested in only, no need to develop charms in areas you won’t be competent in.

    Become god of the Circle. And if you want to expand your Purview perform a sorcerous working to mutate you in that direction.

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  • Uknown DarkLord
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    And if you are a unique spirit created by Sorcery that is comparable st first to a 2nd Circle Demon you have a lot of leeway for potential.
    Definitely. It is the sorcery and martial arts that the spirit character is really going to expand himself in.

    Something that might be entertaining would be a spirit version of carnal spirit rending. But make it so you devour their portfolio and domain. So that for a time, say until Yu-shan can direct a replacement entity to take on the fallen's post, the spirit character is able to affect the domain of the fallen spirit like he was that spirit.

    So say you kill and devour Uvanavu, you gain his personal charms over health until yu-shan assigns a replacement.

    But...maybe that is overpowered.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    As mentioned I imagined it as playing a spirit in a group that’s a mixed circle, which I imagine would alleviate a lot of the issues. And I imagine Sorcery would be useful for expanding ones Purview. Sorcery, Martial Arts and custom charms provide a lot of options. And if you are a unique spirit created by Sorcery that is comparable st first to a 2nd Circle Demon you have a lot of leeway for potential.

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