Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[Exalted 3E] Need the advice/help of the mechanics savvy folks...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
    I will happily run a white room combat against your published NPC of choice.
    Maybe when we get some more characters published.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
      Single Point is only useable with slashing swords; Steel Devil is only compatible with paired swords; Fire Dragon is only compatible with short swords; thus, you can't use Fire Dragon, Steel Devil, and Single Point simultaneously.
      What if --and I know this might sound crazy but hear me out-- you took a slashing sword, and made it shorter.


      Are you in the market for some Martial Arts? Perhaps some custom Artifacts for your campaign?

      Comment


      • #18
        Ok. Martial Arts.

        Martial Arts kinda suck. And the Terrestial and elemental keywords make them suck harder. Mechanically. In character, Martial Arts are awesome and I see the appeal.

        The trick to making Martial Arts work, is looking at what makes the styles distinct and leveraging specific examples. The sword styles are lacking in unique tricks.

        Like the melee build, I've done my best here but it's not "optimal".


        Mnemon Liranan - Character sheet


        Fire Aspect - Mnemon Liranan - The Immaculate Swordswoman - Cloister of Wisdom

        Attributes (88 XP spent you now qualify for Essence 3 charms)

        Strength 5
        Dexterity 5
        Stamina 5 (40 XP spent to raise from 1)

        Charisma 2 (4 XP spent to raise from 1)
        Manipulation 2 (4 XP spent to raise from 1)
        Appearance 5

        Perception 3
        Intelligence 5 (40 XP spent to raise from 1)
        Wits 5

        Fire Aspect Abilities (and Specialities)

        Athletics 5 (Rushes)
        Dodge 5 (Whilst wielding a sword)
        Melee 3
        Presence 3 (4 XP sent to raise from 1)
        Socialize 3 (4 XP sent to raise from 1)

        Favoured Abilities

        Awareness 5 (Join Battle)
        Brawl 1
        --Martial Arts (Fire Dragon Style) 5 (Swords)
        --MA (Steel Devil Style) 5
        Integrity 5 (The Immaculate Faith)
        Occult 5
        Resistance 5

        Other Abilities

        War 2
        Linguistics 1 (3 XP)

        Merits (Native Language: High Realm)

        Martial Artist 4
        Artifact 3 (Short Daiklaves)
        Manse 3 (Stone of the Rams Horn)
        Ambidexterity 1
        The Burning Name 2
        (Dynastic Freebie) Backing (Immaculate Order) 4
        (Dynastic Freebie) Language (Old Realm) 1
        Pain Tolerance (12 XP)

        Free Excellencies

        1. Athletics: Effortlessly Rising Flame
        2. Awareness: Precision Awareness Method
        3. Dodge: Threshold Warding Stance
        4. Brawl/Martial Arts: Become The Hammer
        5. Integrity: Granite Curtain of Serenity

        Starting Charms

        1. Melee: Elemental Sheath
        2. Melee: Dragon Graced Weapon
        3. Occult: Spirit Detecting Mirror
        4. Occult: Spirit Grounding Strike
        5. Occult: Salt and Seed Warding
        6. Occult: Dragon's Sacred Talon
        7. Occult: Terrestrial Circle Sorcery
        -. Control Spell: Invulnerable Skin of Bronze
        -. Shaping Ritual: Heptagram Mudras
        8. Dodge: Heat of Battle Advance
        9. Resistance: Oxbody Technique
        10. Resistance: Oxbody Technique ×2
        11. Resistance: Oxbody Technique ×3
        12. Resistance: Oxbody Technique ×4
        13: Resistance: Oxbody Technique ×5
        14. Fire Dragon Style: Flash Fire Technique
        15. Fire Dragon Style: Flame Flicker Stance

        Purchased Charms

        1. 8XP. Fire Dragon Style: Perfect Blazing Blow
        2. 8XP Fire Dragon Style: Fire Dragon Form
        4. 8XP. Fire Dragon Style: God Immolating Strike
        5. 8XP. Fire Dragon Style: Fiery Blade Attack
        6. 8XP: Steel Devil Style: Naked Fang Draw
        7. 8XP. Steel Devil Style: Double Attack Technique
        8. 8XP. Steel Devil Style: Steel Devil Strike

        Intimacies

        Defining Principle: The Immaculate Faith (Loyal Adherence)
        Major Tie: My old Sifu (Respect)
        Major Principle: I will become the greatest swordswoman of all time
        Minor Tie: The Undead (Disgust)

        Bonus Points
        Taking 8 abilities from 3 to 5 (16)
        Taking Melee from 1 to 3 (2)

        Evasion 6
        Parry 6
        Soak 14 Hardness 9
        Mobility Penalty -0

        Paired Short Daiklaves Accuracy 16 (11 Decisive), Damage 15 (Overwhelming 4), Lethal, Smashing

        The Burning Name Accuracy 14/13 (10 Decisive), 12 Damage (OVR 1), Lethal, Thrown (short), mounted

        Join Battle 11 (+3 to result as normal)
        Rush 11
        Disengage 11

        Resolve 5 (6 for matters of faith)
        Guile 3

        Willpower 5
        Essence 3
        Personal motes 14
        Peripheral motes 35 (30, 5 committed)

        175XP spent
        88 on Attributes
        12 on Merits
        8 on Aspect Abilities
        64 on 8 Aspect Charms
        3 on a new ability


        Tactics

        There are no good published short daiklaves for you. If you can reskin Pyre of Legions Evocations that would be great. If you can invent your own, that'd be even better. (You don't have enough charms to cheese Spring Razor as a reskin... but if you're willing to risk it and put in the effort Spring Razor's Evocations are excellent.)

        Martial Arts restricts your armour, so you'll actually have to cast Invulnerable Skin of Bronze every day. The abilities are okay but nothing to write home about.

        Rushes are the same: an 11 dice pool with Excellency. With 11 dice, 3 successes and exploding 10s you're going to win a lot of Rushes.

        Disengages and Heat of Battle Advance gives you much needed mobility.

        Sorcery is a must-have for you -- you need Invulnerable Skin of Bronze to live. It's extra soak and hardness, you keep your Burning Name ranged attack and have workings if you need them. Occult charms let you beat on dematerialised spirits as all good Immaculates need to.

        Winning Join Battle is useful. This build is pretty good at that. We start with 11 dice base with an option of three success from the Excellency (plus the normal base of 3). You're quicker than the Experienced Dragon-Blooded in the Corebook. You can swap out two Excellency successes with Naked Fang Draw to start building Charge. Or if you absolutely must murder your enemy on round 1, Flash Fire Technique. Keep in mind that Naked Fang Draw is more expensive than just using the Excellency.

        As your defences are much worse with Martial Arts, you need to be tougher. You have -0×1, -1×19, -3×1, Incap×1 health levels. Hardness 9 isn't completely useless, and it will go up to 10 when you hit Essence 4. Your soak is good -- better than standard Medium armour with no mobility penalty and it's natural soak which is something. And Sorcerer's Impervious Mantle has its uses. Hold up, what, NINETEEN MINUS ONE HEALTH LEVELS!?! Yes friends, you have 21 health levels to play with. Enemies will find it easier to build Initiative on you and that means you are going to be eating Decisives. Don't be afraid to run-away once you're down to your last seven -1 levels. Parry and Evasion are both 6, with no easy Parry boosters. You will get hit and your Initiative will go down, but that's okay just get it back on your turn.

        But you wanted a sword-fighter, so let's talk sword.

        All your combat charms are either Fire or unAspected, so you'll always be in Fire Aura.

        Pull your sword out of flames to get minimum damage 6 for a scene.

        Most combats you are just going to want to Rush and make an Excellency backed withering Smash attack to knock your foe Prone (a massive debuff for most characters).

        Double Attack Technique is a good, but overrated, charm. Yes, you are inflicting double Onslaught for your allies to take advantage of. But also remember that excess successes to hit usually spill over to damage. Let's say you're fighting an Anathema with a Parry of 6 and roll 11 successes. With Double Attack Technique you hit twice and get a bonus of (2+ half Charge) damage. Without Double Attack Technique you get a bonus of 5 damage. Meaning you need full charge to pay 3m to do +2 damage. That is seriously underwhelming. And Tripple Attack Technique is completely useless to you -- you are not going to roll 15 successes on 22 dice. You're using this charm to soften a target for your allies and for...

        Steel Devil Strike. AKA The reason you want Steel Devil Style. Reflectively launch a Decisive attack, with Essence successes, ignoring hardness, on someone you've just already hit twice, without reseting to base? I think I just peed a little. 8m 1WP is pricey. But if you can go first and leave a target with -3 Onslaught AND wound penalties (and potentially Crashed) then you've done good.

        And it's not that the rest of Steel Devil is bad. It's all nice to have. It's just that this is so good, why spend motes on anything else?

        Fire Dragon Style.

        Flame Flicker Stance is there for the Aura ability Onslaught protection.
        Perfect Blazing Blow combos onto Steel Devil Strike if Double Attack Crashes them. I think the timings work on that, but might want to Ask the Devs.
        You want to spend the whole fight in Fire Dragon Form. Whirling Guillotine Dance is better but it's a long way off. The other Form charms are worse.
        God Immolating Strike... I just like. You don't need it, and if you're going to drop something from the build this is it (maybe take Charisma 3 instead).
        Fiery Blade Attack is another overrated charm. 4L/round is great. Limiting mobility is great. Losing 4i off a Decisive attack is not great, and nothing says that you don't still have to roll to disengage. Plus a Resistance heavy Solar is going to laugh at your Difficulty 5 roll to avoid damage, and thank you for the relaxing sauna effect. But, when it works... it really works. And there's a lot of scope for doing this unarmed then pulling your swords from the fire burning your trapped foe.

        Outside of combat you're a decent social bod. As long as you're talking in High Realm or Old Realm. If languages are likely to be a barrier, drop your Backing to buy other languages using your free Dynastic merits. You're going to want to make a big impression using Appearence.

        There's stuff you're not great at but you have no massive weaknesses. I had 3XP spare at the end of the build, so I made you literate.

        Going forward, buying up Steel Devil Style gives you options and the whole Style is Essence 3. Fire Dragon gives you higher Essence charms. I'd buy Presence charms to get better at being social -- the better to impress your legend on others. Maybe dip Lore and Performance with Dragon Experience. (Awareness, Athletics, Dodge, Occult and Melee charms can also make you even deadlier at combat if that's all you care about. And, of course, there is more in Resistance than Ox-bodies.)

        Custom Evocations for your Daiklaves is a great, ST dependent, avenue to explore as well.


        I think the Melee build is better, but this is still a strong option. There are better builds out there but I've tried to stay true to the concept you've described.

        Feel free to tweak away to make the character yours. And I'm always eager to hear other people's opinions on my builds and their own advice.

        Starting Character Sword Fighter - The Invincible Sword Dynast

        175XP Melee Build - The Invincible Sword-Fighter
        175XP Martial Arts Build - The Immaculate Sword Fighter
        Best Possible 175 XP Combat Build - The Invincible
        Last edited by JohnDoe244; 07-15-2019, 06:02 AM.


        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

        Comment


        • #19
          Did we all come back around on Steel Devil? I thought it was "helps you win more if you've already won, doesn't help you win if you needed help wining".

          For my part, the merit Sobriquet displays your legend to the world. Mechanically it lets you get one bonus success on a social stunt. "But Sorcerous Overlord, I'm a Fighter not a Talker!". I know, child. I know. Uncle Overlord is wise in all things. The Sobriquet merit lets you choose a title that you think is badass and then leverage that fame once per story to make a truly epic stunt. Mnemon Liranan, Invincible Sword God, gets to trade on the swordsman fame as a means of Social Combat- in any important social scene you get a massively powerful buff by trading on your reputation.

          So it's not gonna beat out any politicos and courtesan type exalts, but A) It lets you get a 3 point stunt easy, B) It's basically a given that you will be able to challenge someone to a duel by trading on your name, which has tons of potential, C) its rad as fuck!

          So get yourself the Sobriquet Merit and turn your swordsmanship into a social weapon.


          ..."But I've bought a big bat, I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me"

          Message me for Japanese translations.

          Comment


          • #20
            Don’t forget you can use your aura to ignore the terrestrial keyword on the Steel Devil charms.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
              Did we all come back around on Steel Devil? I thought it was "helps you win more if you've already won, doesn't help you win if you needed help wining".
              Winning more is sometimes very useful. By shedding your fire aura you can ignore the terrestrial keyword and get +20 withering damage damage against a foe for 3m. If you need to spend motes to win the fight anyway you’re going to do it more efficiently and have lots more in the tank for when the big threat shows up. Or alternatively smack one of Octavian’s Blood Ape bodyguards for a ton of initiative and then unload it onto the boss himself.

              Or even Ocvavian, he doesn’t have a cheap penalty negator, you just need to buddy up. He might block it with Invincible Iron Bastion but making him spend 7m, and a bunch of initiative and you spent 3m on your attack, assuming he has the initiative to roll for that. Needing to buddy up and apply penalties though doesn’t super feel like the greatest duelist swordsman though.


              Against decently built Dawns though it’s trash. Parry 8 and Dipping Swallow make it unusable. Then again I’m of the opinion that if you’re playing a DB game that isn’t explicitly described as speedrunning Wyld Hunts then your ST is a dick for making you constantly fight Dawns. Although in those situations you won’t feel super badass either.

              Steel Devil is way way worse in Solar only games, in my opinion, because you need to give them hardcore enemies to fight and most of the corebook enemies are depressingly easy. DBs have...less of that problem. You just need to do the DnD caster thing and wear them down with multiple fights to steal their precious Essence...

              Comment


              • #22
                I feel that people get way too fixated on Double Attack Technique and its cousins when talking about Steel Devil. Listen here, DAT is just bad. Don't use it. The reason you go to Steel Devil is for Dual Slaying Stance (+2 Parry scene-long and non-reseting decisive counterattacks) Twin-Blade Defense (cheap post-roll Parry booster), Seconds Between Strife (almost a free full excellency on rushes so long as you don't fail) and Iron Lotus Unfurling (counterattack with a disarm followed by an AoE, unblockable, non-reseting decisive. Nuts). The other charms are mostly speedbumps which you can ocasionally use to style all over weakened oponents, but the real thing that makes Steel Devil good are these post-form charms.

                So please, please stop talking about Steel Devil only in terms of Double Attack Technique. It has 12 other charms ffs.


                Are you in the market for some Martial Arts? Perhaps some custom Artifacts for your campaign?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by BadassOverlord View Post
                  I feel that people get way too fixated on Double Attack Technique and its cousins when talking about Steel Devil. Listen here, DAT is just bad. Don't use it.

                  So please, please stop talking about Steel Devil only in terms of Double Attack Technique. It has 12 other charms ffs.
                  I can agree with the sentiment but this...
                  Originally posted by BadassOverlord View Post
                  Listen here, DAT is just bad. Don't use it.
                  I'm not sure if that's true.

                  The OP's swordsman is attacking a Blood Ape using mundane twinblades because he's stated he's not sure if he can get artifact ones, I'm also going to assume that with Naked Fang Draw and possibly even Flash Fire Technique the character in question her won JB and can enter Fire Dragon Form reflexively and can dump charge into his blade.

                  Assuming that, he's got an attack of 16 to hit, with 12 base damage. If we give a roll of say, 7 to hit, without DAT they're rolling 9 damage, with it they're rolling 21. If it's round 2+ and they've got a fire aura to shed to ignore the Terrestrial keyword, that damage jumps to 28! That's not even against an enemy with high soak! Against something like a pestletail the damage goes from a pathetic 1, to all the way to 16, and then 23 if you shed the aura and I did my math right. That's like...really good for 3m.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sorcerous Overlord View Post
                    Did we all come back around on Steel Devil? I thought it was "helps you win more if you've already won, doesn't help you win if you needed help wining".
                    Steel Devil is a terrible "win fights you were never going to lose" trap. It is not as powerful as buying your native charms and you should only pick it up if you already are a Martial Artist and need something to spend Dragon/Solar XP on. But OP wanted to play a sword wielding, Terrestial martial artist who used Fire Dragon and Steel Devil styles. I made a (much more effective) Melee based build to tempt them with, but you should play the character you are interested in. And Steel Devil Strike is a great charm, which becomes genuinely brilliant when combo'd with Fire Dragon Form and Perfect Blazing Blow.

                    What does, genuinely, help Steel Devil is that it's all Essence 3 and OP is starting with 175XP. This means if you wanted to nix Fire Dragon entirely (Fire Dragon Form is amazing for Steel Devil, but Whirling Guillotine Dance is better and you can get there) you can pick up all the neat tricks (like expending aura to attack at medium and the permenant +2 Parry). This would give you a whole, self contained style that will have something applicable in just about every situation. (Whereas a starting Solar is foregoing Solar Melee, limited to the entry charms and doesn't have buckets of XP to throw away.)

                    For my part, the merit Sobriquet displays your legend to the world. Mechanically it lets you get one bonus success on a social stunt. "But Sorcerous Overlord, I'm a Fighter not a Talker!". I know, child. I know. Uncle Overlord is wise in all things. The Sobriquet merit lets you choose a title that you think is badass and then leverage that fame once per story to make a truly epic stunt. Mnemon Liranan, Invincible Sword God, gets to trade on the swordsman fame as a means of Social Combat- in any important social scene you get a massively powerful buff by trading on your reputation.

                    So it's not gonna beat out any politicos and courtesan type exalts, but A) It lets you get a 3 point stunt easy, B) It's basically a given that you will be able to challenge someone to a duel by trading on your name, which has tons of potential, C) its rad as fuck!

                    So get yourself the Sobriquet Merit and turn your swordsmanship into a social weapon.
                    I love it.

                    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxns3HUGxlc

                    Originally posted by BadassOverlord View Post
                    I feel that people get way too fixated on Double Attack Technique and its cousins when talking about Steel Devil. Listen here, DAT is just bad. Don't use it. The reason you go to Steel Devil is for Dual Slaying Stance (+2 Parry scene-long and non-reseting decisive counterattacks)
                    Plus two Parry is great. But keep in mind you're sacrificing +1 Defence on your weapon to use it. 8 dice Decisive Counters are going to helplessly ping off Hardness -- and getting to 8 dice means getting to Essence 3 then taking a -8i. This is a Form charm locking you out of better Forms.
                    Twin-Blade Defense (cheap post-roll Parry booster),
                    3m + 1i per success isn't bad, but it's not "cheap".

                    Seconds Between Strife (almost a free full excellency on rushes so long as you don't fail)
                    A full Excellency is 6m. This is 4m. On an Essence 3 charm. That literally does nothing else. Whilst the Excellency gives exploding 10s. It's not useless, mote efficiency is important. But it's not good.

                    Also RAW, as a Supplimental charm it only affects Rushes based on Martial Arts. Obviously that's not RAI.
                    and Iron Lotus Unfurling (counterattack with a disarm followed by an AoE, unblockable, non-reseting decisive. Nuts).
                    *Mangled Gordon Ramsey quote goes here*

                    This is an amazing charm and I agree 100%.

                    The other charms are mostly speedbumps which you can ocasionally use to style all over weakened oponents, but the real thing that makes Steel Devil good are these post-form charms.

                    So please, please stop talking about Steel Devil only in terms of Double Attack Technique. It has 12 other charms ffs.
                    I think most of the charms are situationally good. Iron Lotus Unfurling, Steel Devil Strike and Whirling Guillotine Dance are my stand-outs, but the likes of Dervish Blade Frenzy, Sonic Slash and (yes) Double Attack Technique aren't "speed bumps". The whole style is just situational. (DrLoveMonkey has already given a brilliant defence of Double Attack Technique.) If you're buying it with Dragon/Solar XP then sure, it's great. If it's competing with your actual charms... I don't see it.

                    But I am grateful for your point of view.
                    Last edited by JohnDoe244; 07-07-2019, 06:17 AM.


                    Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                      Steel Devil is a terrible "win fights you were never going to lose" trap.
                      I also used to think this but I’ve changed my mind. If you’re a twinblade fighter with like 2-3 strength, especially if you don’t have an artifact weapon, and you fight an enemy with like 3-4 defense, 20 soak and decent attacks then Steel Devil will turn your loss into a win if you’re a DB. There are also fights that you would otherwise win, but spend a bunch of Essence doing so where Steel Devil will let you finish the fight sooner and with less mote investment. When your allies are all exhausted and scraping by off more trickle in the final fight you can flourish your swords around, shrug your shoulders and say “I can do this all day.”

                      Assuming he’s not a Dawn or a Full Moon, in which case I really hope Steel Devil isn’t your only style because you’re going to need all the help you can get. Even then though SDS helped you in a secondary because you barely spent any Essence fighting his battlegroup of walking statues guarding the gates to his throne room.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                        I also used to think this but I’ve changed my mind. If you’re a twinblade fighter with like 2-3 strength, especially if you don’t have an artifact weapon
                        I don't disagree with anything you have said. But this conversation has moved so far out of my lived experience I don't think I can meaningfully contribute.


                        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wow! You're all awesome! Thank you so much for your time, fellow forum goers, I really appreciate it. And it just shows how little I know the ins and outs of the Exalted System. I always played suboptimal characters, it seems. I mean I am not complaining, I had fun, but if I see what you all build and discuss here...most of it feels like an alien language to me ^^

                          I am a bit sad that it seems that the Melee build is the better one. Because now i am torn. I like the idea of the martial artist better, it trumps story wise for me. But i wanted to go for the most effective build for once...so Melee is the option. But Melee is so....standard (if i am not-nice, i'd even call it boring) ^^ *sigh* decisions decisions .... and who am i even kidding, because I haven't really digested all you nice people wrote in this thread. And apparently, if i read that right, these builds are not even the most effective...just the most effective for the flavor i wanted... .

                          I will mull this all over for a bit more. Our real first sessions is still a bit away (towards the middle of August) and i have some time. Feel free to make more comments and/or suggestions for even crazier amounts of god-ness . It's really fascinating to see the Pros at their game...I feel kind of humbled here ^^

                          And i want to once again express my appreciation for all your efforts. This is awesome. Thank you all so much!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mnemon Liranan View Post
                            I am a bit sad that it seems that the Melee build is the better one. Because now i am torn. I like the idea of the martial artist better, it trumps story wise for me. But i wanted to go for the most effective build for once...so Melee is the option. But Melee is so....standard (if i am not-nice, i'd even call it boring) ^^ *sigh* decisions decisions .... and who am i even kidding, because I haven't really digested all you nice people wrote in this thread. And apparently, if i read that right, these builds are not even the most effective...just the most effective for the flavor i wanted... .
                            As I think JohnDoe and I have shown, this is going to depend a lot on your ST. Hopefully I'm not going to go too far off thread here but I'd like to tell my little story about how I learned to make better action scenes for my group recently, in spite of being a veteran Storyteller and Dungeon Master, if I may say so myself.

                            I used to think that if a fight didn't have dramatic tension that it wasn't worth running. If there's no real chance the PCs are going to lose, or be badly injured, what's the point? We're just wasting time right? Well my group Exalted game changed to a DnD game a while back and I started DMing for them, all the way to 20, that was my promise. I noticed something annoying though, the damn wizard would just end fights before they got interesting. It sucked for the martial classes like the ranger, and it sucked for me because all my fun encounters that I put so much work into having cool environmental factors and awesome setpiece terrain were used for all of 2 turns before the meteor swarm and overchanneled fireballs killed everything. Or the Illusory Dragon, or the True Polymorph, or the blaaagghhh.

                            Anyway, I managed to scrape by and end that campaign in a satisfactory way, and then ran another, this time a published campaign, and I wanted to see how it went when the whole party was wizards. I was expecting a cakewalk and instead they only barely survived, and only because they'd made powerful allies in the city. Some of the days in that adventure had ten, TEN, encounters! Not all of them combat encounters, but still, god damn. The fights weren't that hard at all, not a single one of them, but halfway through the day they were pretty well all completely empty for all their resources and had nothing but their wits left to save them, and at last I realized the point of non-tense fights.

                            But see, they actually have a dual effect. One is that it lets the players feel like the powerful badasses they are. If every single fight is just them desperately struggling against overmatched opponents, they're going to feel like chumps no matter how strong they actually are, and that really sucks. It's fun to just smash some easy fights sometimes, and fun for me as an ST too! I like seeing my players succeed. There's a catch though, after 3-4 easy fights, you might start getting tired. As long as the fights aren't so easy that you can win without spending any essence/spells/abilities whatsoever, you're going to start running low for when the actual hard one comes around.

                            So what do you do? Well I found that if you implement a system like this, players will learn that if they flex hard and annihilate weak fights, and then end up so drained that they need to flee the final one, they're going to start budgeting themselves a lot more. What THAT then does is make those trivial fights that I didn't even want to break out the dice for interesting again, because you can't just spend 30 motes and end it in one attack, because that's 30 motes you're down for when the Raksha steps up with his pair of Fair Folk Cataphractoi bodyguards! It also means that you can use simpler enemies for the easy fights, and when you're using simple enemies who don't even have charms 3e combat can go surprisingly fast and smooth. So smooth even that I can secretly (Don't tell my players) introduce more or less fights into an action section of the campaign to ratchet up or down the overall tension as they watch their mote pools dry up.

                            Oh, also, this is a way easier thing with DBs than it is with Solars, because Solar charms are so powerful and they have so many motes that the floor for an encounter that will whittle them down is way higher. There's lots of things that Solars can beat with 5m per turn regen that DBs are going to have to use more for.




                            Anyway, there's a lot of STs out there that simply don't do that. They structure things like I used to, and I can't even blame them for it, I did that for years and years. I don't necessarily think it's a bad way to run the system either, I just didn't like it myself. IF they do that though, it makes a lot of charms and combos really bad. Enemy Solars do not care about triple attack technique, they do not care that you've slammed a mobility penalty on their dodge focused character, they ignore penalties to their defense so easily, ect.

                            In this case the Martial Arts character that you're thinking suffers more from this than most builds. Steel Devil's attack techniques can't work against enemies with high defense and penalty negators, Fire Dragon's Flame-Flicker Stance doesn't work against anyone who rerolls 1s to hit, ect. Melee has slightly less of a problem with that, so in cases where every fight is against a super powerful, high skill enemy it fares much better. The MA build though has a lot of great uses. Fire Dragon lets you fight barehanded if you have to, lets you hurt spirits more, and lets you really feel like you're dominating opponents that Triple Attack works against, which is most enemies, especially if you have allies to give you a boost.

                            So finding out what kind of ST you have, what they're going to set up for you, is going to determine what build you have more fun with, I think. The melee one is the safer bet, but it's not strictly better.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              As usual, I agree with DrLoveMonkey.

                              Both the pregens I've offered are mechanically strong. You should play a character that interests you.


                              Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                                As I think JohnDoe and I have shown, this is going to depend a lot on your ST. Hopefully I'm not going to go too far off thread here but I'd like to tell my little story about how I learned to make better action scenes for my group recently, in spite of being a veteran Storyteller and Dungeon Master, if I may say so myself.

                                I used to think that if a fight didn't have dramatic tension that it wasn't worth running. If there's no real chance the PCs are going to lose, or be badly injured, what's the point? We're just wasting time right? Well my group Exalted game changed to a DnD game a while back and I started DMing for them, all the way to 20, that was my promise. I noticed something annoying though, the damn wizard would just end fights before they got interesting. It sucked for the martial classes like the ranger, and it sucked for me because all my fun encounters that I put so much work into having cool environmental factors and awesome setpiece terrain were used for all of 2 turns before the meteor swarm and overchanneled fireballs killed everything. Or the Illusory Dragon, or the True Polymorph, or the blaaagghhh.

                                Anyway, I managed to scrape by and end that campaign in a satisfactory way, and then ran another, this time a published campaign, and I wanted to see how it went when the whole party was wizards. I was expecting a cakewalk and instead they only barely survived, and only because they'd made powerful allies in the city. Some of the days in that adventure had ten, TEN, encounters! Not all of them combat encounters, but still, god damn. The fights weren't that hard at all, not a single one of them, but halfway through the day they were pretty well all completely empty for all their resources and had nothing but their wits left to save them, and at last I realized the point of non-tense fights.

                                But see, they actually have a dual effect. One is that it lets the players feel like the powerful badasses they are. If every single fight is just them desperately struggling against overmatched opponents, they're going to feel like chumps no matter how strong they actually are, and that really sucks. It's fun to just smash some easy fights sometimes, and fun for me as an ST too! I like seeing my players succeed. There's a catch though, after 3-4 easy fights, you might start getting tired. As long as the fights aren't so easy that you can win without spending any essence/spells/abilities whatsoever, you're going to start running low for when the actual hard one comes around.

                                So what do you do? Well I found that if you implement a system like this, players will learn that if they flex hard and annihilate weak fights, and then end up so drained that they need to flee the final one, they're going to start budgeting themselves a lot more. What THAT then does is make those trivial fights that I didn't even want to break out the dice for interesting again, because you can't just spend 30 motes and end it in one attack, because that's 30 motes you're down for when the Raksha steps up with his pair of Fair Folk Cataphractoi bodyguards! It also means that you can use simpler enemies for the easy fights, and when you're using simple enemies who don't even have charms 3e combat can go surprisingly fast and smooth. So smooth even that I can secretly (Don't tell my players) introduce more or less fights into an action section of the campaign to ratchet up or down the overall tension as they watch their mote pools dry up.

                                Oh, also, this is a way easier thing with DBs than it is with Solars, because Solar charms are so powerful and they have so many motes that the floor for an encounter that will whittle them down is way higher. There's lots of things that Solars can beat with 5m per turn regen that DBs are going to have to use more for.
                                This one really hits home, I really despised "small fights" because I thought they were of no interest and cost a huge amount of time compared to other kind of trivial encounters (like climbing, survival, etc ...). I'm still learning to compose my adventures with more small steps, instead of few huge steps like I used to. It's really hard to change paradigm !

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X