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In 2 edition what rank would you give this god?

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  • In 2 edition what rank would you give this god?

    talking about the five divine ranks
    I was thinking about a god of sorcery with the following panoply charms

    1) adamant circle sorcery, though he is not actually initiated into it
    2)Supreme sorcerer's puissance: His sorcery charms require only one willpower point regardless of circle. He sidesteps any ritual behavior, time constraints, or material requirements.Finally he may choose to enhance his spells in various ways. Make them stronger, or cost less motes, etc.
    3)He has all-encompassing sorcerer's sight always active.
    4)He instantly learns any sorcerer spell the moment it is invented(barring extreme measures to bar him from that knowledge), though he needs to commit experience points to truly own it(meaning if he is fired, he does not retain any of them)

    That's what i thought till now

  • #2
    He's going to be a 4 or 5. There are a lot of people that use sorcery, even with the fall of the first age.

    The problem that a lot of people will complain about is that sorcery comes from the Yozi. It's not a natural part of Creation and thus no god for it.

    I've always worked around it that the Salinan Working for sorcery initiations and whatnot ending generating a post for the god of sorcery.

    But dang, Supreme sorcerer's puissance? 1 willpower for any charm? Do you realize how overpowered he is going to be where he doesn't need to use motes for sorcery? Where he can skip the shaping ritual actions? You'd have to have strong justification for why he isn't leading a bureau in Yu-Shan with that sort of power there.

    I dunno. I would think that is too strong. The god is not the domain. So he is not the literal embodiment of sorcery. I have no problem with him having a charm to imitate any sorcery, but for balance it should have the same costs and timing.

    And for #4, I think it might be more fitting? Appropriate? if your god had to look up new spells like Nara-O has to look up secrets in his records.

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    • #3
      So he's better at sorcery than both The Unconquered Sun and the inventors of sorcery?

      He's Rank 5 and the Incarna are greatful that he graciously allows them to play the Games of Divinity.


      Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
        He's going to be a 4 or 5. There are a lot of people that use sorcery, even with the fall of the first age.

        The problem that a lot of people will complain about is that sorcery comes from the Yozi. It's not a natural part of Creation and thus no god for it.

        I've always worked around it that the Salinan Working for sorcery initiations and whatnot ending generating a post for the god of sorcery.

        But dang, Supreme sorcerer's puissance? 1 willpower for any charm? Do you realize how overpowered he is going to be where he doesn't need to use motes for sorcery? Where he can skip the shaping ritual actions? You'd have to have strong justification for why he isn't leading a bureau in Yu-Shan with that sort of power there.

        I dunno. I would think that is too strong. The god is not the domain. So he is not the literal embodiment of sorcery. I have no problem with him having a charm to imitate any sorcery, but for balance it should have the same costs and timing.

        And for #4, I think it might be more fitting? Appropriate? if your god had to look up new spells like Nara-O has to look up secrets in his records.


        1)Keep in mind that sorcery was "burned" into creation by the primordials. It did not "properly" exist beforehand, i would argue that the post always existed. I kinda dislike this whole idea that Brigid invented sorcery to be honest. It makes more sense to me if the primordials gave the first 2 circles to the gods, just as they did with the devas/demons.. Maybe Brigid then managed to learn the third one.

        2)He DOES need to use motes for sorcery. It's just a reduced cost, similar to some of the Yozis' sorcerous enlightenments.. Although i think it maybe too much if he can add more than one enhancement to his spells. So maybe he can either cause more damage or pay a lesser cost but not both. Any thoughts?

        3)He also DOES need to take shaping actions. He simply ignores the unique requirements of each spell. So if the spell says that he must cut his wrist(and lose health levels) in order to use it, he ignores it. If the spell can only be cast at midnight he also ignores it. He doesn't need ligier's former name for total annihilation etc.
        And yeah, he probably does have a pretty high position in heaven.


        Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
        So he's better at sorcery than both The Unconquered Sun and the inventors of sorcery?

        He's Rank 5 and the Incarna are greatful that he graciously allows them to play the Games of Divinity.

        Yeah, i intentionally made him better than the sun in that aspect, but the sun also has all the rest of his abilities, and could obviously beat him any day of the week. The rest of the incarna might have a bit more trouble, but hey, if he is rank 5 then it makes sense that they can't kill him with merely a mean look
        Last edited by mark; 07-09-2019, 05:15 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mark View Post
          1)Keep in mind that sorcery was "burned" into creation by the primordials. It did not "properly" exist beforehand, i would argue that the post always existed. I kinda dislike this whole idea that Brigid invented sorcery to be honest. It makes more sense to me if the primordials gave the first 2 circles to the gods, just as they did with the devas/demons.. Maybe Brigid then managed to learn the third one.
          Is this something you're changing? Cause I thought the Salinan working wove sorcerous initiation into the fabric of creation. And maybe always being able to find a tutor? I mean, sure Brigid might have been the first exalt to discover sorcery. But I would agree it doesn't make sense for her to have invented it.

          2)He DOES need to use motes for sorcery. It's just a reduced cost, similar to some of the Yozis' sorcerous enlightenments.. Although i think it maybe too much if he can add more than one enhancement to his spells. So maybe he can either cause more damage or pay a lesser cost but not both. Any thoughts?
          Ah, when you said he only pays one willpower for spell, I thought was taking away mote cost. Also, my followup question is, if he is able to adjust spells on the fly (lower their cost/increase damage), then how come other sorcerers cannot do the same?

          3)He also DOES need to take shaping actions. He simply ignores the unique requirements of each spell. So if the spell says that he must cut his wrist(and lose health levels) in order to use it, he ignores it. If the spell can only be cast at midnight he also ignores it. He doesn't need ligier's former name for total annihilation etc.
          And yeah, he probably does have a pretty high position in heaven.
          This makes him the most dangerous individual in heaven, you know this, right? It means he can summon 3rd circle demons whenever he wants without waiting for Calibration.

          Also does this mean there is a god of Necomancy with the same abilities?

          And which bureau would your god of sorcery be in? I am thinking maybe the division of secrets?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post

            Is this something you're changing? Cause I thought the Salinan working wove sorcerous initiation into the fabric of creation. And maybe always being able to find a tutor? I mean, sure Brigid might have been the first exalt to discover sorcery. But I would agree it doesn't make sense for her to have invented it.



            Ah, when you said he only pays one willpower for spell, I thought was taking away mote cost. Also, my followup question is, if he is able to adjust spells on the fly (lower their cost/increase damage), then how come other sorcerers cannot do the same?

            This makes him the most dangerous individual in heaven, you know this, right? It means he can summon 3rd circle demons whenever he wants without waiting for Calibration.

            Also does this mean there is a god of Necomancy with the same abilities?

            And which bureau would your god of sorcery be in? I am thinking maybe the division of secrets?
            1)Yeah, i forgot about Salina. But sorcery was still a phenomenon though, so i think it could have it's god even before her. Will have to think more about it.

            2)Actually, infernals with (yozi) sorcerous initiation can adjust spells i believe.

            4)Good point, forgot about that one. I would argue that his power does not apply to demon summoning, after all the oaths of surrender are an external condition, not part of sorcery its self .
            Or maybe he is under restrictions similar to the solar charm "The time is now". He can summon demons whenever he wishes, but if he summons a third circle demon outside of calibration he runs the risk of all his demon running free.

            4)Yeah, actually a god of necromancy should exist, though he is, understandably, a more recent creation. Perhaps he was a lesser god till void circle necromancy was actualized?

            5) yeah, that's a good division.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mark View Post

              1) adamant circle sorcery, though he is not actually initiated into it
              What does that mean?

              I'm gonna be honest, this god doesn't sound very interesting. There's not really a lot of character to the powers, in a way that I feel takes away from what makes both gods and sorcery distinct and varied. The idea of needing to spend XP to keep a spell in the event that the god is removed from their position is also a bit of a copout, not least because tracking XP isn't really a thing for NPCs.

              Mind, even if it is... is there a reason to presume that this god would not have bought all of the spells that it knows? If it's presumed to have experience points, what else are they spending them on?

              I know that the question is about divine rank, but Compass: Yu-Shan portrayed that system as partially working on politics and administrative rank, so I'd say descriptions of the god's personality, motives and ongoing projects is relevant.

              Finally, while I'm all for there being a god of sorcery, I find the concept is not dependent on being a god who has all of the sorcery.


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
              Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
              https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                What does that mean?

                I'm gonna be honest, this god doesn't sound very interesting. There's not really a lot of character to the powers, in a way that I feel takes away from what makes both gods and sorcery distinct and varied. The idea of needing to spend XP to keep a spell in the event that the god is removed from their position is also a bit of a copout, not least because tracking XP isn't really a thing for NPCs.

                Mind, even if it is... is there a reason to presume that this god would not have bought all of the spells that it knows? If it's presumed to have experience points, what else are they spending them on?

                I know that the question is about divine rank, but Compass: Yu-Shan portrayed that system as partially working on politics and administrative rank, so I'd say descriptions of the god's personality, motives and ongoing projects is relevant.

                Finally, while I'm all for there being a god of sorcery, I find the concept is not dependent on being a god who has all of the sorcery.

                It's similar to how Luna knows solar spells despite explicitly not being initiated, due to drawing power from Gaia. Or to how the Maidens do the same with the first 2 circles due to drawing them from Samsara. Basically all it means is that if he loses the position then he can no longer use them(and of course, buying them permanently is not an option for the third circle)

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                • #9
                  Question. Is your sorcery god's power based on the number of sorcerers in Creation? Is each spell cast also a prayer that reaches his ears?

                  Also, what is your god's objectives? How does he interact with other gods?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mark View Post


                    It's similar to how Luna knows solar spells despite explicitly not being initiated, due to drawing power from Gaia. Or to how the Maidens do the same with the first 2 circles due to drawing them from Samsara. Basically all it means is that if he loses the position then he can no longer use them(and of course, buying them permanently is not an option for the third circle)
                    The things from Glories of the Most High mean a lot more than that. They mean matters of character and relationships.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
                      Question. Is your sorcery god's power based on the number of sorcerers in Creation? Is each spell cast also a prayer that reaches his ears?

                      Also, what is your god's objectives? How does he interact with other gods?
                      Well, i guess his power is based on the importance of sorcery in the world, it's just that, realistically, it's unlikely that he will ever have to worry about it.

                      I am mostly interested in designing the position rather than the character. The way i think it however, he was a loyalist during the primordial war, yet for reasons unknown to anyone outside their ranks(except, perhaps, the yozis) he was not executed by the incarnae. He still holds his domain and has an office in heaven, yet is in perpetual house arrest. Sort of like the emperor of Japan before the meiji restoration

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mark View Post
                        I am mostly interested in designing the position rather than the character. The way i think it however, he was a loyalist during the primordial war, yet for reasons unknown to anyone outside their ranks(except, perhaps, the yozis) he was not executed by the incarnae. He still holds his domain and has an office in heaven, yet is in perpetual house arrest. Sort of like the emperor of Japan before the meiji restoration
                        So it is mostly just someone for the PC's to pray to? While he handles the paperwork of each spell cast per day?

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