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Women in Armor II

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Synapse View Post
    Are they portrayed and depicted with the expectancy that the players can play into those subjects, or just cited?
    You don't play history.

    Originally posted by Synapse View Post
    Is the educational context different from the entertainment context?
    I'd argue that Exalted has its moments of being educational (and of course history can be entertaining). My first memory of encountering the word "satrapy" was in the 2e core book, and it was through Stephen Lea Sheppard's posts that I came to learn that the notion of barter as I learned about it in school was largely a fanciful myth from a man who wanted to prove the existence of God.

    Originally posted by Synapse View Post
    Do we teach those to little kids? To teenagers?
    Probably not as much as we should, honestly. America's really failing its future generations right now.

    Originally posted by Synapse View Post
    It's a rather touching difference, in my opinion.
    A not being B shouldn't always restrict it from being mentioned in a discussion on the subject of B, though. Especially in the case of a B that's so heavily informed by A.

    Originally posted by Synapse View Post
    Unless you want to make the argument that such content filter advisors are not important?
    That's not remotely what my argument is.
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 07-25-2019, 11:49 AM.


    • #62
      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
      What did you mean by "overton's a bitch"?
      When we take something as the current norm, outliers are more salient. And when what we take as the norm changes, so do what is salient.
      When that change in the norm is good, all is good in the world.
      But when that change isn't, now something that could totally be fine now isn't.

      And realizing that the fact an element is an outlier has tangible weight in how we evaluate it isn't natural, it requires conscious effort. This is what I mean with "Overton's a bitch".

      What you said was questioning whether or not dissatisfied people constitute a loud minority who aren't representative of one's "public".

      What you're saying now reads a lot different than your prior statement of "you've got to be careful not to think the complainers are more representative than they are, lest you lose your public".
      I was at first focusing on the fact visibility is biased towards complainers, which has to be accounted if you don't want to misjudge. The latter statement is just a broader explanation of the same thing.

      Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post

      Wouldn't play styles influence future writings though?
      How so? Writers' play styles definitely influence how they write, but we were talking about the readers' play styles.
      The road from "these readers like it like this" to "this is written like this" has to first go through steps like "this is selling well/badly" and "people are praising/complaining". From there you still have to make the writers change their style accordingly, or change the writers.

      Is this what you mean? If so, yeah, I agree.


      Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
      You don't play history.
      I know, that's why I questioned the comparison: If we are concerned with who this book is suitable to, it has to be in the context of the game. Talking about something majorly different demands that difference to be acknowledged.


      • #63
        Originally posted by Synapse View Post
        The generic floozy doesn't particularly inspire me either. I, however, am admitting that it might inspire someone else. Clearly not you. Clearly not me. But you and I are not everyone, are we? This is the core of my point in this particular reply that you quoted.
        As I was talking about an objectified and sexualized piece of artwork I am sure it will inspire something in someone. This has its purpose, obviously, and I've heard that, besides cat pics, it is one of the bigger raisons d'ĂȘtre of the internet ;-) In a rpg manual it will also be off-putting to a growing number of people, however, and I dare say that, while you and me are indeed not everyone, those who find that type of art inspires actual character concepts, would also find non-objectified art to fulfill that function.

        Now, in addition to pushing away some people, I'm willing to go out on a limb again and state that the average consumer of rpg's does not need such artwork in their product and that even if some of them are incapable of distinguishing between sexy and sexualized, I would expect an art director to do so. I am not saying to let perfect be the enemy of good, and as you say, tastes and tolerances differ from person to person, so, yes, especially in properties in which sexy is the expected esthetic there will be hits and misses, depending on you who ask. That is ok.

        What is not ok is not making the effort if you want your work to appeal to a broader base. Especially as this is, you know, the 21th century. These days I can actually find rpg's, comics, computer games and all that where the makers at least try. My assumption is that not caring is effectively messaging to me, the consumer, who is your intended target-audience.


        • #64
          I think also there's matter of numbers.

          If you have an RPG book with a picture of a sexualised passive woman (perhaps draped across the feet of a muscled barbarian king, in stereotypical fashion), I think that's okay... if there's 20 other pictures of active female badass heroines (and villainesses) doing stuff, and maybe some regular women just doing regular stuff (farming, shopkeeping, fishing, shepherdessing, etc).

          If there's 20 pictures of sexy girls reclining in a contorted position (to show both t and a), and only 1 badass heroine, it becomes the default.

          My characters:
          Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
          Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
          Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.