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What is a good amount of Exalted you would need to make a substitute Creation?

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  • What is a good amount of Exalted you would need to make a substitute Creation?

    So Creation is a masterpiece of Gaia and Cytherea with incomparable wonders contributed by other Primordials. Before we were hinted that Cytherea's divine Ignition Catalyst specialty was what really allowed them to manifest Creation so instantaneously that it even petrified unwitting Raksha.

    So say in a game a special faction Develops of Lunar, Solar, Sidereal, and even some Dragonblooded and Exigents. They know struggling against the realm is not worth it so they decide to move their whole Faction into their own Creation. Before when I had other worlds developed they were usually in the 1st Age with Elder Exalts using vast resources. This however is the Age of Sorrows so the Solars are Young but Solar Sorcery is within their Grasp given time and experience.

    So how many Exalts would you say would be a good crew to actually make a project of going into the Wyld and making their own World. And when you go into the Deep Pure Chaos what determines this Nova Terra's location compared to Creation? How easy is it to make it far away in the depths of the Wyld as opposed to having a trail leading from the West end of the New World to East of Creation? Like what determines the Comet Gnosis is far away rather than near?


    What number of Exalts and what combination would be a good crew to build a basic foundation, say something bigger than the Blessed Isle with room to be built upon. It wouldn't have the storied wonders of Creation but it counts as reality as opposed to the Wyld.

    What numbers would be a good start? 10 Solars, 15 Lunars, 5 Sidereals, and about 100 Dragonblooded? With a good dose of Savants Sorcerers and Crafters in the mix could they manifest the basics in a decade? Or would it be closer to a Hundred years?

    If they did this how easy would it be for folks in Creation to notice? Do you think some division of Heaven would take offense, but what could they do send the Realm off into the Wyld to fight a War literally a world away?

    What about Creating World Sustaining Behemoths? Or beings like the Elemental Titans of 1st and 2nd ed, but have been conspicuously absent from 3rd, though I do suspect they may be introduced as seldom discussed secret knowledge from the dawn of time. But would you Treat the Creation of such massive beings as multiple sorcerous Workings or would you even use some Artifact N/A rules?

    Is it easier to mold occupants from nothing to populate the world, or just to supplement the population imported into it?

    Or what if you do just choose a corner of the map and Wyld shape Direction's worth of land, then the map could be hella lopsided if the West is twice as big as the other directions, no I figure its more complicated to add that much land to the system of wonders that is Creation and instead just make a simple world outside of it.


    Or what is stopping you from allying with a God with a Large Sanctum and Adding more space and Land to it, Sorcery should do the Trick. If a god smuggles 20+ Celestial Exalts into their home and Makes a Mini Universe is their actually something preventing that besides the need for Sorcerery to Mold Space?

    Like the World is busy and say the Civil War of the Realm kicks off and there are Exalts Screwing around everywhere, how big on the threat list would it be for a couple dozen Celestials and hundred Outcastes just disappear, Heaven has other problems?

    Hopefully this thread won't turn into a dumpster fire. Cheers.


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    Well, you're going to need a new loom of fate if it is a world unconnected from Creation.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
      Well, you're going to need a new loom of fate if it is a world unconnected from Creation.

      Yes, I always figured in depending on the level of separation from Creation they can piggyback on Creation's Loom and Reincarnation Cycle and stability, like those worlds that are just a secret path away from Creation. I figure in this world they would build certain Foundational Wonders to keep the world running. In one of my pocketworlds the Architect was working on an unborn Primordial and used its dreams as an engine for Reincarnation. A Loom of Fate equivalent can either be in emulation of the Loom, basically a knock off loom, or it could be a different sort of Wonder like a many spoked Wheel or Astrological Clockwork, somewhat like the Calendar of Setesh.

      But I wonder how the Reality stabilizing method of folks like the Scorpion Empire work.


      It is a time for great deeds!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

        Is it easier to mold occupants from nothing to populate the world, or just to supplement the population imported into it?
        I think it might be easier to bring new people in. Auto swallowed whole nations of people before he fled. If it was easier to make people he could have done so.

        Or what if you do just choose a corner of the map and Wyld shape Direction's worth of land, then the map could be hella lopsided if the West is twice as big as the other directions, no I figure its more complicated to add that much land to the system of wonders that is Creation and instead just make a simple world outside of it.
        I actually think it would be easier to add land onto Creation, rather than create an island of stable land surrounded by Wyld. Didn't 1st age exalts expand Creation immensely?

        Like the World is busy and say the Civil War of the Realm kicks off and there are Exalts Screwing around everywhere, how big on the threat list would it be for a couple dozen Celestials and hundred Outcastes just disappear, Heaven has other problems?
        I doubt anyone would notice. Most Lunars escaped into the Wyld during the Usurpation and creation wasn't harmed. And its not like anyone except maybe Lytek tracks who exalts where. And Sid only track solars through the Loom of Fate to try to prevent them gaining power and potentially destroying the world.

        If you have a Sid campaign then one might be dispatched to see what is going on. But I doubt a bunch taking off wouldn't mean a thing to most.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post
          Most Lunars escaped into the Wyld during the Usurpation
          Not in this Edition, they didn't.


          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
          https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

            Not in this Edition, they didn't.
            Oh, well even so I don't think Heaven would care if 20 Lunars dropped into the Wyld.

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            • #7
              I think the part of Heaven whose job is to deal with non-military threats, intelligence gathering, investigation of weird stuff, etc... is mostly run by people who would be very happy if most Lunars and Solars would conveniently go somewhere far, far away. Sure, the commanders of the Aerial Legion might be worried that they need Celestials to defend Creation, but they're not the ones in charge of checking.

              So if a bunch of Lunars and Solars vanished, I think the only reason Heaven would investigate is to make sure they've not secretly building an invasion force or dealing with the Yozis or something.


              I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

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              • #8
                I think for the long term, you'd better plan on building a separate Creation that can sustain itself with only dragonblooded exalts and their capabilities after a couple thousand years, because there's no guarantee that new celestial exaltations would happen there when the Solars, Lunars, and rogue Sidereals die off. In fact, I'd bet against it happening.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
                  I think for the long term, you'd better plan on building a separate Creation that can sustain itself with only dragonblooded exalts and their capabilities after a couple thousand years, because there's no guarantee that new celestial exaltations would happen there when the Solars, Lunars, and rogue Sidereals die off. In fact, I'd bet against it happening.
                  I’d imagine you could Sorcery/Artifact it so they Exalt within the new world. But if the Exalts leave after they die that would also be good news because that means that new Exalted from Creation have an equal chance of Exalting in this land.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post

                    I think it might be easier to bring new people in. Auto swallowed whole nations of people before he fled. If it was easier to make people he could have done so.
                    Well his plan seemed to hinge around around stealing a bunch people, yes, bit more importantly he stole several million souls at the same time.

                    At least in 2e the alchemicals we're propitious of the other exalted and as such might not have worked for non humans.

                    I'd say he decided it was easier to steal souls and kidnap people rather than build up a reservoir of souls within himself to account for population growth over time in addition to creating the starting population.


                    Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by armyofwhispers View Post
                      I'd say he decided it was easier to steal souls and kidnap people rather than build up a reservoir of souls within himself to account for population growth over time in addition to creating the starting population.
                      Well if 2E still holds valid, they are frequently at their soul limit. What with stillborn children being born because of not enough souls to go around.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Uknown DarkLord View Post

                        Well if 2E still holds valid, they are frequently at their soul limit. What with stillborn children being born because of not enough souls to go around.
                        Dude. It took ~5000 years for them to hit their soul cap.

                        Honestly I don't think Autobot planned to be asleep that long. Not to mention that Compass: Autochtonia implies that there at least some subsystems that Autochthon had set up that the ministers have fucked up in his absence (which of course further lends credence to the theory that the Divine ministers are terrible but that's a different story). Perhaps there were others that he set up after the escape that may have dealt with the soul issue if properly implemented. Obviously if he did set anything up for that, he wasn't great at communicating that fact. It's also possible that without the wyld, you just can't make new souls from nothing.

                        It's left vague and unclear.

                        I think for the purposes of this thread, though, my point is that all we can really take away from Autochthon's example is that it's easier to build an artifact N/A and steal several million souls than it is to create that number of souls on your own while also trying to fly under solar radar. As I recall, it wasn't even Autochthon himself who build the Ewer. It was his his 8 mortal champions, specifically avoiding the notice of the Exalted. To me, it`s pretty plain that Autochthon thought he couldn`t do anything directly without tipping his hand.


                        Check out my homebrew exalt: The Fabulists - Chosen of the Raksha here

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                        • #13
                          Yeah and Solars have a specific create your own populous charms to help them.


                          Auto was also eating Po souls and that interferes with reincarnation.


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

                            I’d imagine you could Sorcery/Artifact it so they Exalt within the new world. But if the Exalts leave after they die that would also be good news because that means that new Exalted from Creation have an equal chance of Exalting in this land.
                            Not necessarily on the latter point. I don't recall hearing about anyone on Autochthon exalting as a Solar, Lunar, or Sidereal during his long exile, or of human captives of the Fair Folk out in the Wyld doing so. Even if the Incarnae's reach for exalting mortals extends out that far the chances of it happening are probably pretty tiny what with all the suitable candidates much closer to home. About all we can say is that IF it's possible and IF no process is linking up new Exalts in Creation v2.0 to specific past lives of the people who founded it, random odds would favor any new Exalts experiencing different past life memories from the founders.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post

                              Not necessarily on the latter point. I don't recall hearing about anyone on Autochthon exalting as a Solar, Lunar, or Sidereal during his long exile, or of human captives of the Fair Folk out in the Wyld doing so. Even if the Incarnae's reach for exalting mortals extends out that far the chances of it happening are probably pretty tiny what with all the suitable candidates much closer to home. About all we can say is that IF it's possible and IF no process is linking up new Exalts in Creation v2.0 to specific past lives of the people who founded it, random odds would favor any new Exalts experiencing different past life memories from the founders.


                              They specifically state the Seal of Eight Divinities prevents Celestial Exaltations from happening in Auto, after the Seal is Broken they specifically state Celestials will Exalt in Auto.

                              They also state Wyld mutants who become archetypes don't Exalt. If your Soul is eaten you no longer have the Heroic spark to Exalt because you are a Dreameaten Zombie. But Those seiged and raided by the Raksha have Exalted to fight and beat them.


                              It is a time for great deeds!

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