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What do you want in a Martial Arts book?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
    but the mechanics were a bit wonky. [...] And the fluff wasn't great.
    The mechanics in Scroll of the Monk weren't wonky, they were literally worthless. I've talked to a writer who was on that book and wow those are some horror stories.

    The fluff in my opinion... I mean its salvagable in some areas. As Lea pointed out it is kinda wonky to have a society wide sect of martial artists if only a minor subsect can do them (I often use Rand's interpetation that mortals can learn some techniques via them as NPC only abilities), but I find there are some ideas to pillage. Just don't use the crunch.


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    • #17
      I'd like to read about godblooded and enlightened mortals pursuing the martial arts. Maybe your godly parent was all about flower arrangements, and you're a hot-headed young Thresholder. I don't recall exactly where enlightened mortals landed in 3e, but I found martial arts was the place I used them the most as a storyteller in 2e. I'd be open to being inspired to do so again in 3e.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Tikor View Post
        I I don't recall exactly where enlightened mortals landed in 3e…
        ”Not a discrete category.” There are beings that we’re formerly mortals that now command the use of Essence, but it’s so far part of some other transformation, such as gaining sorcery, or mutation from the Wyld.

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        • #19
          So, and this is the key thing, there are no longer mortals who can use weak martial arts charms.

          Mortals can now learn Tiger, Snake, Water Dragon, etc (whereas in 2nd ed they couldn't, despite Tiger being a real martial art that real people can learn) but it's just dots, no charms.


          My characters:
          Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
          Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
          Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sandact6 View Post

            The mechanics in Scroll of the Monk weren't wonky, they were literally worthless. I've talked to a writer who was on that book and wow those are some horror stories.

            The fluff in my opinion... I mean its salvagable in some areas. As Lea pointed out it is kinda wonky to have a society wide sect of martial artists if only a minor subsect can do them (I often use Rand's interpetation that mortals can learn some techniques via them as NPC only abilities), but I find there are some ideas to pillage. Just don't use the crunch.
            We used the TMAs loads, they were largely fine. Just as functional as DB melee or thrown.
            We used the CMAs a little, they seemed a bit weak compared to Solar and Lunar combat charms, except Distracting Finger Gesture which was OP.
            And I ran a couple of fights of PCs vs Sids with e4 charms from Citrine Poxes of Contagion and.. that spider-themed SMA, I forget the name. They also worked okay. Obviously most SMA were busted, I picked those two because they were the best-working)

            But then, this is comparing them to Solars who could stunt a perfect defence every single round and actually get more motes than they started. So really what I'm saying is parts of Scroll of the Monk were no worse than the Core and splat books. You didn't have to rewrite all the steps like in the DB book where charms were activated at entirely odd steps.


            My characters:
            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
            Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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            • #21
              Scroll of the Monk, if I recall correctly, also had rules for the Water Spreading Knife or similar, and a few artifact names/stats for weapons.


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              • #22
                Anyway, to answer the opening post, I think you've covered pretty much everything. The only other thing I can think of are larger organisations that are based around a martial art, but not just in one locale; orders, criminal organisations, etc.


                My characters:
                Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sandact6 View Post

                  The mechanics in Scroll of the Monk weren't wonky, they were literally worthless. I've talked to a writer who was on that book and wow those are some horror stories.

                  The fluff in my opinion... I mean its salvagable in some areas. As Lea pointed out it is kinda wonky to have a society wide sect of martial artists if only a minor subsect can do them (I often use Rand's interpetation that mortals can learn some techniques via them as NPC only abilities), but I find there are some ideas to pillage. Just don't use the crunch.
                  I didn't think the mechanics were that bad.

                  Some of the weird stuff (martial arts as a disease Vicissitude-style, Enlightment through magic rocks, etc.) was wonky. The MA weapons were wonky (as were all the 2E weapons).

                  By and large all the Terrestial styles were fine.

                  The Celestial styles were breakable (I'm not going to call out You-Know-Which style, but without an Adamant Skin Hearthstone it wasn't THAT bad) but generally in line with where Celestial MA was pegged in the 2E core. (NPCs could pick up those styles and run with them no problem.)

                  The SMA were kinda broken WITHOUT errata, but were Errated into line with everything else -- and it was 2E high Essence effects, E5+ SMA was no more broken than E5+ Solar charms. (I had the opposite experience of Wizard with Charcoal March of Spiders Style -- Pattern Spider Touch (pre-Errata) was used for everything from killing Iggy D to creating 200 new Sidereals in my games. It's the embodiment of Essence 6+ charms and the 2E BadTouch poster charm.) But the Essence 4 and below charms were all plug and play for NPC Sids.

                  The Imperfect Lotus gave us the Virtue styles which were perfect (pre-errata, 2.5 Temperance was already balanced to 2.5 and got nerfed WAAAAY too hard, especially compared to Crane) and 4 very solid Terrestrial styles.

                  Glories did more to break Martial Arts crunch wise.

                  There were certainly problems. You couldn't hand a player Scroll and tell then to go nuts (because the Hearthstone's in the Corebook utterly broke the game when combined with the right MA). There were plenty of min-maxable charms that someone like me would pounce on (Single Attribute Dependant Exalt? Yes please.). But without wonky power combos, hideous min-maxing, or Essence 6+ then all the styles work.

                  Scroll of the Monk was for STs. Not players.

                  Now 3E is a lot easier to design for than 2E. And by closing off your expanded charms from comboing with each other in unexpected ways you have avoided the biggest crunch problem with Scroll. I look forward to seeing what else you come up with.
                  Last edited by JohnDoe244; 08-21-2019, 06:19 AM.


                  Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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                  • #24
                    I only used Essence 4-5 Charcoal March of Spiders; it was pretty clear the higher stuff was broken.

                    Plus it seemed a bit mean to put my 150xp party of six e3-4 Solars+Lunars up against e6 Sidereals.


                    My characters:
                    Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                    Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                    Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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                    • #25
                      I want Vance to finally release Heavenly Ladder into the wild! *shakes fist*


                      Exalted Behind a Screen of Jade, Savant of the Immaculate Texts, No Moon Scholar, Seeking Awakened, Cloaked Changeling, Disciple of the Antler Crown, Wraith, Good Sitting Dog, Best Lurking Cat with Bones, Pioneer Pooch, Scion with Shield of Knowledge, Director

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