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  • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    Nnnnooo, the General Secretary of the Communist Party uses the title in the same sense as being a US government minister, not a personal secretary.
    Well, I meant, he was the guy that organised the meetings and such...

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    • Mind, Stalin brings up a different point about how revolutionary movements provide opportunities to people that have been marginalised by the traditional establishment, which can get especially messy when incorporating actual criminals.

      You know, that example of somebody running a tea shop was set against me, but in combination with things like The Realm presenting the ministries as having a lot of power independent from the Exalted Great Houses, much of which lies in the hands of mortal ministers, and things like What Fire Has Wrought presenting a scenario of patricians trying to stake their own claims in the upcoming chaos, I can see scenarios that are kind of close to it.

      If the familiar administration breaks down dramatically and a lot of the people who traditionally staff it side against one faction are due en masse, a group might look to other sources of people with experience and expertise to run things so that their regional territory doesn't grind to a halt.

      People like, say, accomplished peasant business owners. It's distasteful, but maybe less so than your borders being overrun due to your armies being sluggish and poorly supplied because you don't have anybody on hand who knows how to keep a ledger.

      Maybe that business owner sees an opportunity to advance their own standing while the Exalted are all distracted among one another. Maybe at some point sees a shot to arrange for their traditional overlords to be murdered, at a time when them being locally replaced or avenged is not a given.

      Highly unlikely that anybody mortal is going to become Empress of the Scarlet Realm while there are so many Exalted around, but it's not implausible for the Realm to splinter into polities more like the River Province and the Threshold, where not every magnate is Exalted and some rulers even have Exalted in the payroll.


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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      • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
        I'm not going to debate every little point with you, so I'm asking out of genuine curiosity: do you think it's plausible that the PCs can avert the civil war but that the NPCs won't? (Note it's "can" not "will", and "won't" not "can't".)
        Yeah absolutely. In the back of the 3e DB book we have a bunch of Terrestrials and a lot of them would be good NPCs to work with to save the Realm. Depending on how things play out, maybe even taking the throne as a PC. Amon Mora a non-corrupt, and indeed possibly incorruptable figure who's thoroughly loyal to the Empire first, as well as a highly respected DB who's position on a legitimate candidate holds serious weight. He just needs to find somebody willing to make changes without being reckless about it.

        Then there's Berit, who's a complete badass, slaying a legendary Lunar anathema single handedly in her younger years. She's got a defining principle of loyalty to the Realm in general, and a lot of good ways to convince her to join your side. Pride, possibly even the promise of at last a Great House Berit, or even just to keep together the Realm that is her home.

        After that it's Cathak Cainen, he's willing to work with other houses, values honour and loyalty, and also willing to back a contender to the throne as long as they're brave and true.

        Cogen is kind of take or leave, but Ledaal Kes works for both the Treasury and the All-Seeing-Eye, with a major principle of "It's my duty to serve the Realm." and major ties of loyalty to the Eye and Bal Keraz. He's also a bloody genius and well respected, get him on your side.

        Mnemon is dangerous and surely will be one of your biggest threats to stopping this war.

        Ragara Benoru though? Pfft, please. Defining Principle, her only one "The strong must protect the meek." and major tie of "Those who abuse their power (Righteous Fury)" she's not holding any tuck with a Realm civil war that will cause the slaughter of countless peasants. She's on your side.

        Last line in Sesus Nagezzer's writeup "He serves the Empress' Realm, and would sacrifice everything he has for its continuance." and his principles confirm that.

        Lastly Tepet Ejeva, who's writeup this edition doesn't mention at all that she's a contender for the throne, only that she wants to keep protecting the Realm and despises politics.


        That seems to me like a lot of useful, powerful people that could be convinced to unite behind some cause that would save the Realm from destroying itself. There's even more in the Realm book too, Bal Keraz is pretty desperate to stop the Great Houses from taking so much of the tax money for themselves instead of the imperial treasury, her counterpart in the Private Purse Cirrus Jezan feels the same way, Nellens Junaj in the Imperial Post has refused to abuse his power on behalf of his family due to loyalty to the Realm. I won't mention any more, there's a ton.

        Pretty much none of them are working together though, and that's where the PCs come in, among a dozen other things they can do to stop the war. A pretty 'simple' option is to just find a candidate that Cainen, Mora, Berit, ect. will back, get them there in a position where the Deliberative can propose that and accept it, and then the war stops. Maybe even BE that candidate, somebody finally upstanding and fair enough to bring the houses together. Some Dynasts are crazy ambitious for the throne, but if you have half the Realm backing one candidate, and the other half splintered in to 4 factions, none of which will assist the others if war breaks out, then they aren't lighting that match.

        Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
        I don't like effects which apply to the "Exalted" but exclude Dragon-Blooded. I don't want powers that work on my opponents rolling 1s when my opponents can't roll 1s. I'm not overly keen on being locked into a specific element. And whilst I don't mind the Mastery and Terrestial keywords individually, they add up to a massive difference.

        *SNIP*
        ing many are not obvious or not plausible.) I'd like a canon path to victory for Deebs: some way of reforging the Jade Prison or getting Sol to recognize them as being more worthy than his Chosen (not a second Exaltation).
        I'm pretty sure in 3e there aren't effects that call out "Exalted" but exclude DBs, and the Immaculate Faith is very legitimate. It IS a very useful tool, but it's also one full of life lessons and monk led rebellions to overthrow cruel leaders. As for the rest I'm not sure what to say, DBs are supposed to feel less earth-shatteringly powerful, they're supposed to be forced to rely on eachother to produce the biggest effects and the most change. Most of their cap-bursting stuff is still the same, Immaculate Styles let you ignore the Terrestrial keyword, making your martial arts CMA, the Mantel of Brigid and Jade Thurible still exist, there's even new ones like House Ledaal's plan to overcharge DB exaltations, shortening lifespan for temporary overdrive powers, ones capable of allowing a DB to go toe-to-toe with a Solar anathema. That's pretty on the nose for what you're looking for isn't it?

        Reforging the Jade Prison is probably only on the table with Sidereal help, it was a wonder of artifice even in the First Age. Although this -
        Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
        getting Sol to recognize them as being more worthy than his Chosen (not a second Exaltation).
        Is just ridiculous. Sol is not going to reach down to the collective myriad Dragonblooded host and raise them up while flipping off his own chosen any more than he's going to do that for Lunars because they're the only ones who haven't had a turn at running the world yet. It could maybe be a point that a particular ST raises in a particular game, but it does not belong in published material.

        Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
        I've posted three sets of Deeb builds recently -- you've been in the threads. All book-legal characters. The feedback universally has been than just because it's book-legal, doesn't mean it'll make it past the ST. Is your 5/5/1×6 character with two artifacts going to make it into a game? (I think the answer is "yes, why are we debating this?" but clearly I'm in a minority and there's a lot of hate for optimisation.)
        Most of the hate for optimisation comes from making character concepts that are either warped wildly around the rules, first making a character with maximum power and then trying to explain his stats with story rather than the other way around, or taking advantage of an exploit, not just from having powerful characters. Like the recursive retainers thing. If your character did nothing with merits except buy retainers who do nothing with merits except buy retainers who use their merits to give you a technically legal character who has command of hundreds of thousands of troops, dozens of tyrant lizard familiars, and any number of any artifact, then that's dumb and gets vetoed at my table.

        That's the most exploit-y one I've seen, but if you walk it back a step from there that's still two steps to far. Taking advantage of certain rules interactions, especially between really disparate elements of the game that likely weren't thought to interact with eachother, like an evocation from Arms with a corebook MA with a Dreams charm. Just making a powerful character with good stats though? That's fine, I've seen almost nobody complain about that. The only complaint I see, which I kind of agree with but it's the system's fault, is when you're trying to win the Character Creation Minigame you end up with a really fucked up starting character session 1, who's either the best at something or the worst.

        If you're just designing a character to be a prodigy of the Heptagram though, and you give them a mentor in Ragara Bhagwei and the merits that would imply a prodigal star student it's all good.

        Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
        Lastly, that feeds into my point: characters which are exceptional make good protagonists. A Solar who can do things no Deeb can possibly match is good by default.
        I absolutely can not agree with this. I have seen some of the stupidest, wretched, bland, anemic character concepts in my entire gaming life played in the form of Solar exalted. Not always, obviously, but power does not a good character make.

        Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
        But even then, look at the dicepools of the QCs in WFHW. You're still up against 11 dice pools which can add 6 dice with the Excellency. In the cross-section of characters the authors decide will be most useful to you. You can match that, but you can't then match the Signature and Essence 4+ Charms thrown on top of that possessed by hundreds, if not thousands, of rivials.
        But you...you totally can. You can get to Essence 3. It doesn't even take that long. Past Essence 3 the power gap is tiny, your circle will definitely be able to overcome it. Presence has ONE charm that's Essence 4 and that's it, no Essence 5. I think you're putting WAY too much stock in minor dice bonuses and stuff here. I have seen, personally, a DB perfectly best a Dawn in single combat in 3e, through the use of clever tactics and Shining Ice Mirror.

        If two Dawns clash, and they have the exact same charm loadout, equipment and essence, except one has Agile Dragonfly Blade and the other doesn't, is it a foregone conclusion, totally implausible that that Dawn might lose? With how much powerful Lunars and Sidereals are, isn't it totally implausible that none of them broke into the Imperial Defense Manse before The Scarlett Empress?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          the Immaculate Faith is very legitimate. It IS a very useful tool, but it's also one full of life lessons and monk led rebellions to overthrow cruel leaders.
          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...78#post1314178

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...82#post1323782

          The forum consensus (not Eric, thankfully), is that it's "bullshit".

          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          Immaculate Styles let you ignore the Terrestrial keyword, making your martial arts CMA
          For a tick. By expending Aura. That's not the same thing as the Enlightenment Charms.

          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          there's even new ones like House Ledaal's plan to overcharge DB exaltations, shortening lifespan for temporary overdrive powers, ones capable of allowing a DB to go toe-to-toe with a Solar anathema.
          And if these Charms are in Heirs I'd love to read them.

          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          If you're just designing a character to be a prodigy of the Heptagram though, and you give them a mentor in Ragara Bhagwei and the merits that would imply a prodigal star student it's all good.
          I thought you didn't need to buy Merits?

          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          I absolutely can not agree with this. Not always, obviously, but power does not a good character make
          Then I don't understand the point you were making about Dragon-Blooded Characters. What does it matter if I start with Melee 1 or Melee 5? Why shouldn't I be a bottom of the barrel Dynast trying to save the Realm?

          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          But you...you totally can. You can get to Essence 3. It doesn't even take that long.
          And we're talking in circles again.

          The price of playing on the Blessed Isle is to have an interesting game in the Threshold first where you build a rep and get to Essence 3. During this time the Realm doesn't errupt into Civil War because Mnemon's plans are on-hold until the PCs are ready and Creation isn't an organic world, it's a video game where quests don't start until the PCs start them. And once you hit Essence 3 it's time to stop finding First Age artifacts and fighting Behemoths to come home and sip tea with V'neef when I'd really rather carry on with what I've been doing for the past ten sessions.

          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          If two Dawns clash, and they have the exact same charm loadout, equipment and essence, except one has Agile Dragonfly Blade and the other doesn't, is it a foregone conclusion, totally implausible that that Dawn might lose?
          Absolutely not.

          Now Clash ten-thousand more Dawns and don't lose to any of them.

          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          With how much powerful Lunars and Sidereals are, isn't it totally implausible that none of them broke into the Imperial Defense Manse before The Scarlett Empress?
          Sorry, how many world ending plagues and Fair Folk invasions had occured in the First Age?

          How many Lunars where on the Blessed Isle to try?

          And who's to say the Empress wasn't the work of a Sidereal attempt to break in?

          I'm not a dev. I have no responsibility for what's written in the canon. I'm an ST and occassional player: I can control my story and my characters.

          The story can turn on one super-special, improbably lucky character whose friends all died for her... if that character is an NPC. If the characters are PCs that really wonks the group dynamics (Griffith did nothing wrong).

          [Edit]

          Tone is very difficult in text. For clarity: I'm really enjoying this discussion and I find opposing points of view very insightful -- I don't think I'm going to change my mind on this but it's good to understand the perception of other fans. My goal is not to make you hate games of Dynastic politics or berate you for bad-wrong-fun: I'm just trying to explain what I personally like and dislike about Terrestrials within the context of the game. If I've not addressed one of your points it's because I don't think there's anything else helpful I can say, but I'm happy to address them or elaborate on anything you'd like to discuss further. I sincerely hope I've not caused any anger or offence to anyone taking part. FMA245 seems to start threads then never post in them so I don't feel bad about hijacking the thread, but I'm happy to take the discussion elsewhere if people are more comfortable with that.
          Last edited by JohnDoe244; 09-11-2019, 04:00 AM.


          Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            The forum consensus (not Eric, thankfully)
            Okay I think I see what you mean. The Immaculate faith has some inaccuracies in it depending on how far up the chain you are. The Immaculate Dragons aren’t real, they’re a religious ideal formed together from several heroic DBs from the first age, I don’t know if I’d call that illegitimate though. The faith is a religion, not a history book. The function that it performs is not to accurately document the events of the world, but to guide those living in it now.

            In that way it’s very good, it gives structure and community, it facilitates communication between spirits and mortals, and protects them from forces both without and within. They even have a division of the Order devoted to environmental protection. It’s not all good, telling people it is a holy thing to not try and rise above the conditions of your birth is super shitty, but telling people to put their whole heart into their work and not assume it is beneath them is pretty solid.

            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            And if these Charms are in Heirs I'd love to read them.
            If they found a way to balance them I would be pleasantly surprised to see them there, if they are charms at all, or maybe if they were apocryphal? I just don’t want to see DB characters hardline divided between has/has not that Ledaal technique where people thinking they were getting into a DB game actually ended up in basically a mixed game, or where everyone on the forum starts going “House Ledaal will always win, they’re the new Empress and destroy all comers because they have Solar DBs.”

            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            I thought you didn't need to buy Merits?
            No, merits are still good, but Dynasts have non-merit advantages. You could have Backing 0 in the Immaculate Order and if you went to a monk in a village and said “I’m here looking for a fey creature that’s taken the form of a peasant and is stalking the forest nearby, you will tell me anything you know about strange behaviour in your flock, and assist me in my search.” if that even goes to a roll you’re keying off their devotion to the order automatically by being a divine shepherd of mortals in her eyes. What Backing 4 Immaculate Order does is let you contact the Directional Temple and say “I have found a deadly shapeshifting Raksha, but it is more powerful than expected. I require a strike team of monks equipped to battle the nightmares of the feywyld.” And then a cadre of monks is dispatched to your location.

            If a town is experiencing serious problems being exploited by a god, their monks aren’t allowed to treat with it directly outside of special circumstances. Only the Dragonblooded have the spiritual fortitude to negotiate on behalf of mortals. That’s not a merit that’s just their culture.

            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            Then I don't understand the point you were making about Dragon-Blooded Characters. What does it matter if I start with Melee 1 or Melee 5? Why shouldn't I be a bottom of the barrel Dynast trying to save the Realm?
            I think you can, but it may make an already difficult problem much harder. You can give yourself a bunch of advantages right off the hop, so why not use them?

            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            The price of playing on the Blessed Isle is to have an interesting game in the Threshold first where you build a rep and get to Essence 3. During this time the Realm doesn't errupt into Civil War because Mnemon's plans are on-hold until the PCs are ready and Creation isn't an organic world, it's a video game where quests don't start until the PCs start them. And once you hit Essence 3 it's time to stop finding First Age artifacts and fighting Behemoths to come home and sip tea with V'neef when I'd really rather carry on with what I've been doing for the past ten sessions.
            That certainly is one option, although I don’t think the Threshold is necessarily where you need to be. There’s plenty of corruption to root out, monsters to fight and renown to be won on the Isle. It might even be easier to spread the word of your deeds closer to home. The important part is you grow your legend, increasing the scope of your game over time until you’re messing with things on a global scale.

            It’s not the only option though, if you want a game where you both save the Realm and spend all your time far from home what about going to save the Empress? One of your characters or an NPC finds a lead, a really really good lead, on where she is, so you spend the campaign tracking her down, and when you escort her back to the Imperial City she takes control again and gives you a reward befitting of her saviours. Which is to say probably a baller position being the Empires champions for more fun adventures far from home. Or maybe just off to find a kind of N/A artifact that will let you take the throne Scarlett style. If you show up in the Five Metal Shrike, nuke the ocean outside the imperial city so hard the wave threatens to blow over the tide wall, and then tell everyone the game’s over, you’re emperor now that might work too.

            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            Now Clash ten-thousand more Dawns and don't lose to any of them.
            Right, but you’re not clashing ten thousand times, you’re clashing a handful of times, and you can stack the deck. If you work behind closed doors and in the open, taking full advantage of your circle and the benefits you all bring, along with allies and mentors along the way you can absolutely outmaneuver

            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            Sorry, how many world ending plagues and Fair Folk invasions had occured in the First Age?

            How many Lunars where on the Blessed Isle to try?
            I’m not sure, but the Shogunate was a thing that the Lunars really really wanted dead, and the Sword of Creation delivers on nation slaying power. There also were Lunars on the Blessed Isle, but even if there weren’t, doesn’t that scream Terrestrial power that an entire continent was made forbidden to the type of exalt who’s got “freedom to go anywhere and be anything.” As part of their style?
            Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            And who's to say the Empress wasn't the work of a Sidereal attempt to break in?
            Chejop, leader of the bronze faction, waited for days kowtowing before the Empresses front door before she allowed him in to treat with him about the future of the world, and he didn’t even get that great a deal as she constantly frustrated him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
              I think you can, but it may make an already difficult problem much harder.
              See, I think you can try but you make the task so hard failure is assured.

              Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
              It’s not the only option though, if you want a game where you both save the Realm and spend all your time far from home what about going to save the Empress? One of your characters or an NPC finds a lead, a really really good lead, on where she is, so you spend the campaign tracking her down, and when you escort her back to the Imperial City she takes control again and gives you a reward befitting of her saviours. Which is to say probably a baller position being the Empires champions for more fun adventures far from home. Or maybe just off to find a kind of N/A artifact that will let you take the throne Scarlett style. If you show up in the Five Metal Shrike, nuke the ocean outside the imperial city so hard the wave threatens to blow over the tide wall, and then tell everyone the game’s over, you’re emperor now that might work too.
              That's pretty much exactly what I want from my Deeb games. That's the game I enjoy playing.

              It's not for everyone, but you've hit on my perfect game right there.

              Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
              Right, but you’re not clashing ten thousand times, you’re clashing a handful of times, and you can stack the deck. If you work behind closed doors and in the open, taking full advantage of your circle and the benefits you all bring, along with allies and mentors along the way you can absolutely outmaneuver
              But the people you're Clashing also have Circles/Kinships, allies and mentors.

              It's not your Kinship vs Mnemon. It's your Kinship vs Mnemon's Inner Circle and her entire Great House.

              Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
              Chejop, leader of the bronze faction, waited for days kowtowing before the Empresses front door before she allowed him in to treat with him about the future of the world, and he didn’t even get that great a deal as she constantly frustrated him.
              Chejop isn't all Sidereals. Using a Solar weapon to save Creation is pretty Gold faction-y.


              Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                See, I think you can try but you make the task so hard failure is assured.
                If your kinship are all designed to be really bad, like maximum spread on attributes and abilities and all merits as influence in far reaches of the world that never impact the game, then you’re going to have a really bad time. That doesn’t mean you need 20 dice to Mnemon’s 11 to beat her though. A really good start would be to make sure that none of your plans hinge on beating Mnemon in a straight and fair sorcery fight. I’m not even saying don’t get in a sorcery fight with her, just set things up so you have an unfair advantage, or make the whole thing a ploy to drain her of motes and willpower before actually hitting her with your real plot.

                That’s why I find DB games so much more interesting. With most Solar games I don’t really care to put much thought into plans or actions because I’m so wildly powerful that unless I’m operating in a satrapy or close to Realm territory I can just punch through any mistake I make, and there really isn’t much stopping me from just going straight for the goal anyway. If I’m playing a DB I might want to actually make a deal, set a trap or put two foes against eachother or something.

                Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                That's pretty much exactly what I want from my Deeb games. That's the game I enjoy playing.

                It's not for everyone, but you've hit on my perfect game right there.
                It’s a viable option, but it is putting your DB circle in the exact worst spot for them to display their strengths. They’re on their own outside of the religion that worships them and the Dynasty that empowers them, they’re more vulnerable to the predations of Lunar exalted and closer to the most dangerous sources of Wyld Creatures and forgotten horrors.

                That’s really not where DBs shine though. Just like a Solar game set in the Imperial City, where every character needs to be highly focused on espionage, you can almost never so much as glitter your castemark, and every big gala you go to is a heart pounding ordeal where skilled and experienced hunters could be moving in on you at any moment. Some Ledaal Shikari smiles at you and says “Taking a sabbatical this year? Where are you going? Ah I know, someplace sunny, right?” Which could be totally innocuous, or could be a hunter who’s trying to draw out a nervous response to confirm their suspicions about you, or could be a hunter who’s already certain and is just toying with you before the bloodbath starts.

                It’s DOABLE, like it’s not a forgone conclusion where you will he found out and all killed, but it’s not a place where Solars really shine. Compare that to delving into a forgotten tomb out in the far Threshold where you are totally free to blast full power mega doom combo attacks that split the earth open or picking up a building and hitting another building with it.

                Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                But the people you're Clashing also have Circles/Kinships, allies and mentors.

                It's not your Kinship vs Mnemon. It's your Kinship vs Mnemon's Inner Circle and her entire Great House.
                Yes, but you’re still thinking of the circle too much like a Solar circle. Mnemon, I don’t think, has a sworn kinship. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one written up for her or even mentioned and she doesn’t have any intimacies in her statblock that would indicate that. She does have a house though, a great house, and you don’t, but the nature of that power is very different from an Essence 5 Dawn’s personal strength. Her House consists of a lot of loyal Dynasts, and a few that could be turned traitorous, she also has much more and much greater enemies and rivals than you do. She’s got some beef with V’Neef and Ragara and a Solar rebellion in one of her satrapies. Plus, who says you can’t gather more allies and more powerful ones over the course of the campaign?

                If you’re a Solar circle fighting the Mask of Winters, he’s got his own Abyssals as well as himself being a Deathlord. Does that mean the Solars might as well not try, they can’t win? They’re facing mirrored versions of themselves as well as an Essence 10 first age ghost and all his backup including the invincible Juggernaut. I think you can still have a plausible story about those Solars overcoming that disparity and achieving victory.

                Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                Chejop isn't all Sidereals. Using a Solar weapon to save Creation is pretty Gold faction-y.
                Okay but there’s no indication anywhere that that is the case. Sidereal interference could be responsible for just about anything.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                  That’s why I find DB games so much more interesting. With most Solar games I don’t really care to put much thought into plans or actions because I’m so wildly powerful that unless I’m operating in a satrapy or close to Realm territory I can just punch through any mistake I make, and there really isn’t much stopping me from just going straight for the goal anyway. If I’m playing a DB I might want to actually make a deal, set a trap or put two foes against eachother or something.

                  It’s a viable option, but it is putting your DB circle in the exact worst spot for them to display their strengths. They’re on their own outside of the religion that worships them and the Dynasty that empowers them, they’re more vulnerable to the predations of Lunar exalted and closer to the most dangerous sources of Wyld Creatures and forgotten horrors.
                  See I can't reconcile these two thoughts.

                  "I don't like playing a Solar because I just roll 20 successes and win. I do like playing a Deeb because my target already has a Major Initimacy and I get what I want without rolling."

                  I like the tighter focus of a DB game because you can't breeze over your problems. Saying "don't you know who my mother is" to raise a thousand men to do your bidding is breezing over those problems.

                  Likewise I'm not sure how narratively plausible this is. Zapp Branniganing Juggernaut might work, I guess, but I don't see you convincing the Realm to commit.

                  I guess there's a sweet spot where it's hard to access your position of privilege because of the disintergration of the Realm and competing demands of the Dynasty, but once you have accessed it then it's a powerful tool to solve your problems? I see how that could be satisfying.


                  Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                    See I can't reconcile these two thoughts.

                    "I don't like playing a Solar because I just roll 20 successes and win. I do like playing a Deeb because my target already has a Major Initimacy and I get what I want without rolling."

                    I like the tighter focus of a DB game because you can't breeze over your problems. Saying "don't you know who my mother is" to raise a thousand men to do your bidding is breezing over those problems
                    For me what I like about it is that it’s a really wide power that’s unwieldy, context dependant, but really strong. It almost acts like a McGuffin artifact except it’s way less contrived. The power is all there, House Cathak has over 2,000 DBs in it, several satrapies, which are entire kingdoms, belonging to them, some of whom have cadet houses running them which may contain hundreds more exalts, and huge swaths of territory on the Blessed Isle. They have resources in spades, the trick is tapping into and using them. One of my favourite shows that came out recently is HBO’s Chernobyl, and it was awesome to see the power wielded by the characters through the Soviet Union. Need 5,000 tons of sand and boron? Done. How many men to clean the exclusion zone? 750,000? Very well. Retrofit Lunar rovers, negotiate support from or enemies on the other side of the iron curtain, overturn the soil in a 26km radius, done, done, done. We need three men to volunteer to give their lives to save the entire continent? “You’ll do it because it must be done, because you’re the only ones who can, and if you don’t millions will die, and if you tell me that’s not enough I won’t believe you.”

                    It didn’t always work though, in spite of wielding all that power, such might, Valery Legasov still feared the KGB, and politics often snarled their plans. So it’s an interesting dichotomy of mind boggling forces and vulnerability. I also like that you take on that role but you’re still a superhero. Like if you were Boris but instead of just arriving and chewing out the incompetent management you also freight trained your way through some of the walls of the burning building and rescued trapped workers or something.

                    I also like how it’s context sensitive. So on the Isle you have peasants who have been taught to respect and obey any Dynast, patricians who envy you and family who support you, in the same campaign you might dive out to the far reaches of the Threshold, using your position as a Dynast to project the power of the Realm out to the far reaches where your strength is much more about being able to suplex a blood ape, and the force of people you brought with you. With less crazy power than Solars have though, those people do become more important. Surviving through the night on a sojourn to the far north as a Solar can be as simple as activating a survival charm and then falling into a snowbank, safe in the knowledge that Surprise Anticipation Method will wake you if something happens, can anyway, not every solar has those charms. With a Dynast it’s much more about landing your small fleet of ships, scouting out the area with your Hearth because it’s your job to protect the mortals and against the monsters out there only you can safely, and then directing them to set up a base camp and start felling trees and collecting dead wood for fires, safe sleeping that night because of your three layers of guards and exalted bodyguard retainer. Then once you’ve got what you came for you get back on he ships and head home, changing context again. It can almost let you play different games in the same campaign. One session you’re leading a force of tens of thousands, charging an undead behemoth the size of a mountain, and a few months later you and your hearth are clashing with a clan of dinosaur riding bird men, and it’s an actual fight that a PC might even get crashed in because now you’re alone and far away. If you’re a Solar or Lunar powerful enough to cut juggernaut in half with a single swing then having a skirmish with those dinos won’t even be worth busting out the dice for.

                    There’s also a nice feeling that’s pretty unique to DBs in that most people default to being on your side. So when a town on the borders of a Wyld pocket is under siege when you ride up proudly displaying your terrestrial nature it inspires hope and relief in people, and the beleaguered defenders don’t need to be convinced you’re trustworthy and there to help, they just defer to you. At last, the exalted have come to deliver us. Which in a general setting sense is definitely not always true, Dynasts often fuck over peasants, but your circle isn’t going to, they’re actually going to live up to the stories the Immaculates tell. Not that some NPCs don’t also do that.

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                    • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                      Dynasts often fuck over peasants, but your circle isn’t going to, they’re actually going to live up to the stories the Immaculates tell. Not that some NPCs don’t also do that.
                      ... because the peasants will have the honour of serving their new Dynastic masters and thus finding their place in the Perfected Hierarchy, right?


                      My characters:
                      Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                      Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                      Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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                      • Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                        ... because the peasants will have the honour of serving their new Dynastic masters and thus finding their place in the Perfected Hierarchy, right?
                        I mean, duh?

                        More seriously I wouldn’t put a lot of pressure on my players to be concerned with the social mobility of the Realm peasantry, at least until after some other problems got solved like abolishing slavery. I’m also reluctant to explore things like turning the Realm into a true meritocracy anyway. Unlike the benders in Legend of Korra, who were basically in charge for the simple reason that they can shoot fire from their hands, Dragonblooded on average are better in pretty much every way than mortals except for morality and possibly wisdom. Which ARE traits you want in a leader, but it doesn’t change the fact that battlegroups and businesses commanded by terrestrials perform superhuman feats where as ones commanded by mortals do not. It’s uncomfortably reminiscent of “We’re in charge because those lowborn peasants/minority-race just don’t have the capability to do what we do, poor things!” Except that is literally true in this case.

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