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  • Best Control Spells?

    What do you think is the best choice of Control Spell for the Terrestrial, Celestial, and Solar Circles of Sorcery? I'm looking for what you think is the best choice to pick as your initial spell in each Circle based on how useful, powerful, or just plain cool the Control Spell bonus effect is, though the utility/power of the base spell itself is of course quite important too. For this purpose, just ignore or set aside Demon of the First/Second/Third Circle and Summon Elemental, as those don't have Control Spell effects.

    For my own picks, I'm undecided for the Terrestrial and Solar Circles, but lean toward Travel without Distance for Celestial Circle, as that can easily let you teleport your entire group with you, which can be a life-saver when your back is to the wall.

  • #2
    I like the Control spell for Body Arsenal

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    • #3
      Mists of the Eventide is fun


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      • #4
        Summon Elemental.

        ****

        Less flippently, they're all good. Extra soak, puppet your enemies, increase your damage, jump straight up an entire rangeband and so on.

        A lot depends on how strictly you interpret the drawbacks. Is sleeping fitfully just fluff or does it mean something? Will having a super-bad-fake-rub-on-tan screw you over, or is it purely cosmetic in a world where folks have green hair (and what if you're black)?

        Generally, I prefer the benefits that don't need you to cast the spell. Invulnerable Skin of Bronze makes you tougher even if you haven't cast it, which is wicked.

        Not a massive fan of Wood Dragon Claw's control benefit: by giving up the benefit of a control spell, you may then give up Charms to enhance an easily Warped spell. But I am a massive fan of taking it as a control spell anyway so your Shaping Ritual makes it easier to fire off when combat starts.

        For effects that enhance the spell, Mists of Eventide is good, but Corrupted Words is my real stand out.


        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

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        • #5
          The best, mechanically, at Terrestrial circle are probably Mists of Eventide and if you have high essence, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze.
          But Mists of Eventide I think is OP, and Invulnerable Skin of Bronze's control effect, while really good, is quite dull.

          I would agree with Corrupted Words as well, and I think that's a more interesting one.

          Silent Words of Dreams and Nightmares and Impervious Sphere of Water are spells that are quite awkward to use, and the control effect makes them much more practical.

          The control effect of Infallible Messenger is very good, and very expensive. Like Solar spell expensive, wp-wise.

          Finally, the control effect of Keel Cleaves the Clouds is not very good... unless you have Mist Razor or some other effect that makes fog or mist, as you can then walk on it like difficult terrain. Combine with an athletics charm to ignore difficult terrain, or just Monkey Leap to jump from mist to mist, and that's a fun little combo for climbing and jumping to basically... wherever you like.

          I'd also like to give honourable mentions to the control effects of Beckoning That Which Stirs the Sky, Flight of Seperation and Blood Lash. They're not good, but they are cool. (Flight of Seperation's control effect gives me bad memories though.)
          And again, there's some combos you can do with weather control.
          (The villain in my Lunar game is the Dragonblood sorceress Kazei [Name redacted] Jadis, the White Witch. Her signature spell is Beckoning That Which Stirs the Sky, which she can use to summon blizzards that then follow her around.)

          Originally posted by JohnDoe244
          Summon Elemental.

          ****

          Less flippently, they're all good.
          Make a pact with an Ifrit Lord. He teaches you to summon elementals as your first, signature, spell.

          Learn the merit Suzerein of Endless Flame.

          Summon a flame duck for 0wp.
          Summon a flame duck for 0wp.
          Summon a flame duck for 0wp.
          Summon a flame duck for 0wp.
          Summon a flame duck for 0wp.
          Summon a flame duck for 0wp.
          Summon a magmin for 0wp.
          Summon a magmin for 0wp.
          Summon a magmin for 0wp.
          Summon a magmin for 0wp.
          Summon a magmin for 0wp.
          Summon a magmin for 0wp.
          Summon an efreet for 0wp.
          Summon an efreet for 0wp.
          Summon an efreet for 0wp.
          Summon an efreet for 0wp.
          Summon an efreet for 0wp.
          ...
          You can summon 3 or 4 a day if you're not doing much else, so it's relatively fast to summon an army.
          (It does cost a wp if you fail the binding roll, but binding rolls are quite easy, and you get 1wp back a day. So if you summon 4 elementals a day and fail one, you'll get the wp back.)
          Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 09-11-2019, 06:01 AM.


          My characters:
          Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
          Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
          Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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          • #6
            Right, Solar spells.
            You've currently only got 4 options for Solar spells anyway.

            Summon Demon has no control effect.

            Death Ray has a lame and boring control effect, but it's not bad... if you think you're going to cast Death Ray twice in one combat. Which you might, but man that's a lot of Willpower. I'm 95% sure that it's the control spell of our Solar sorcerer (I'm not 100% sure), but despite her love of casting Death Ray whenever it's vaguely appropriate, I don't think I've ever seen her cast it twice in one combat. She mostly just casts it once and keeps it going until the combat is over or she decides to run away.

            Rain of Doom's control effect is really powerful if you want to destroy armies and cities, kill thousands in horrible agony, etc. It also gives you a penalty on all social rolls. If you're a social character, you're going to want to give that a nope. If you're not a social character, do you want to be even worse at socialising? If your answer is "I don't care, behold my sorcerous power and cower mortals!" then go for it.

            So I'm going to recommend Benediction of Archgenesis. Benediction of Archgenesis is an amazing spell with a very serious restriction; you can't cast it twice within 1000 miles in the same year. 1000 miles is a really big distance. If you cast it in Harborhead, you can't cast it in Varang or even Chiaroscoro. If you cast it close to Nexus, you can't cast it in Sijan, Lookshy, Thorns, or Great Forks. If you're not playing a game that's covering a massive distance, then it's basically a once/year spell (which lasts a year).
            The control effect reduces it to 100 miles, which is suddenly way more viable. Now you can probably cast it a couple of times in your kingdom and in all the neighbouring ones too to make friends.
            The downside is it wrecks stealth or disguise attempts; it's pretty obvious you're the famous floramancer when flowers grow in your footprints however you've disguised yourself. But it looks nice though.
            Last edited by The Wizard of Oz; 09-11-2019, 06:02 AM.


            My characters:
            Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
            Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
            Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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            • #7
              Now, Celestial spells.

              If you want to play a familiar-sorcerer with a magical beast that you enhance with Survival charms, then Prince of the Fallen Tower's control effect is the way to go. Otherwise I don't think it's that good; having 4 Princes instead of 3 isn't going to make that much difference.

              If you want to use Torrential Cascade in regular combat (rather than against armies or towns) then the control spell is useful, as it can ignore your friends.

              Cloud Trapeze is a very good spell with a reasonable, if not amazing, control effect.

              But I would say:
              Originally posted by Corwyn_Ulhar
              Travel without Distance for Celestial Circle, as that can easily let you teleport your entire group with you, which can be a life-saver when your back is to the wall.
              Yeah, you're right. Once three of my PCs were ambushed by Ahlat and 100 bull-spirit soldiers, and Ahlat alpha-striked the Full Moon, horribly wounding and permanently blinding him on the first attack. So the others defended the sorcerer for a couple of rounds and then they all teleported to safety.
              And obviously you don't just have to use it to teleport away from difficult fights, you can just use it to move 30 miles in a few seconds. Although Cloud Trapeze is better for long-range movement, I'd argue.

              To be honest, Travel Without Distance's control effect is both really good and a huge buff over its base effect. Though I will say it depends a bit on the size of your circle; if your sorcerer can send himself and 4 others but your group has 6 members, someone's in trouble! Or if you're one of those parties that likes to travel with NPCs.


              I'd also say that Magma Kraken and Impenetrable Veil of Night have really cool control effects, but they're not very useful.


              My characters:
              Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
              Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
              Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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              • #8
                No love for the hand mouth spell I see ?

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                • #9
                  Damn, I forgot the hand-mouth!

                  Grabbing people by the head and sucking out all the water from their bodies with a viridian-tongued fanged maw in the middle of your hand is one of the more dramatic control effects. And it is a reasonable pick for a brawl-using sorcerer, though sadly Invulnerable Skin of Bronze is probably better at higher levels. It really depends how you rate aggravated damage.


                  My characters:
                  Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                  Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                  Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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                  • #10
                    But what if I want two hand mouths do I have to buy the spell twice ? Om nom nom

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                    • #11
                      Shadows of the Ancient Past can have godlike narrative effects, and that goes double if you can show other people the unspeakable secrets you've unearthed.

                      Using the spell, our circle accidentally found out what happened to the Empress while investigating something completely unrelated. If we'd had the ability to replay that scene to DB leadership, the ensuing chaos would have been legendary.

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                      • #12
                        It might be foolish on my part as you're basically begging for multiple xp-sinks, but i have something of a liking for control spells that open the option of evocations to the sorcerer.

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                        • #13
                          In practice, they irritate me. A)You don't actually get any benefit from the control spell besides being able to buy things, which will be balanced against their 10xp cost anyway, and B)There's no rules for them, and being told "yeah, you can totally make your own rules!" is not why I pay money for professionally-produced rule books which (I assume) have been playtested and balanced.

                          I like the idea though. Your signature spell is one that you can do all sorts of things with that others can't? And one that (since you've invested more xp into it) you probably use a lot (alway fighting with Wood Dragon Claw, always travelling on a Floral Ferry, etc).
                          I think that makes perfect sense.

                          I guess that a lot of evocation trees give some small bonus without spending any xp: an extra dice on something or other, a free weak charm if you're Resonant, etc. So you could give that bonus to the spell.


                          My characters:
                          Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                          Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
                          Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                            In practice, they irritate me. A)You don't actually get any benefit from the control spell besides being able to buy things, which will be balanced against their 10xp cost anyway, and B)There's no rules for them, and being told "yeah, you can totally make your own rules!" is not why I pay money for professionally-produced rule books which (I assume) have been playtested and balanced.
                            To address the first point, I'd probably make the first evocation be a "you learn this for free" one, so that you do get an immediate bonus for taking the spell as a control. For the second, I'm not sure how many evocations could reasonably be provided without basically locking down the feel of them for the spell and making every character who took the spell having the same evocations. I'd guess it's the same reason that Glorious Solar Saber doesn't have any suggested evocations - they're always going to be even more personalized than most evocations, so even suggesting one or two pins people down too much.

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                            • #15
                              I have nothing to contribute except the suggestion that everyone imagine this conversation taking place in character in the Heptagram dining hall.


                              But sexually.

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