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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hark View Post
    Also, Yozis being able to escape Malfeas was never canon, stop saying that it is a change.
    Yozi escape was always impossible.

    MoEP: Infernals pointed out that the Exalted literally exist to do the impossible, and Yozi escape was carried forwards in Broken Winged Crane and Return of the Scarlet Empress.


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    • #32
      Originally posted by Epitome View Post
      -Exalt Charms plateau at Essence 5, which is more powerful than it used to be. While Exalts get more motes from going higher, E6-E10 Charms are roughly as strong as E5 Charms and more meant to be signature Charms.
      Wait, what? What does this mean? I know that we don't have any examples to point to, but I don't understand how an E7 or E8 charm would be just as strong as E5. I thought that some of the effects from DotFA would be "put on a higher shelf" so to speak, like from E6 or E7 to E8 or E9.

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      • #33
        I wanted to address the Dawn Caste destroying the mountain because to me it's a good way to highlight some key differences between 2nd edition and Ex3.

        In 2nd edition you'd essentially approach the mountain like a big opponent with no ability to evade you but lots of soak and health levels, you'd use your combat charms and try to do enough damage until the ST declares it rubble.

        In 3rd edition the most pressing question is "why do you want to attack the mountain?" because inanimate objects aren't normally a part of the combat system, unless that mountain is the slowly awakening form of the demon Chernobog or something like that you don't roll join battle against it. If you're fighting something on the mountain there's a type of special attack intended to make the combat system more cinematic called a Gambit which would allow you to do something like attacking above your opponent to try and cause a rockslide. Finally there's your Feats of Strength/Demolition if there's no fighting involved. A Storyteller might allow this one to happen instantly if there's no meaningful difference between smashing it into rubble in a single blow and demolishing it from the peak down over the course of several weeks.

        Currently I don't think there's a way to do it in 3rd edition but as you can see all three are different prospects.


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        • #34
          Originally posted by The Free Man View Post
          Wait, what? What does this mean? I know that we don't have any examples to point to but I don't understand how an E7 or E8 charm would be just as strong as E5.
          The "how" is pretty simple. They just don't get stronger. To quote the Lunars draft,

          "This chapter includes ancient Lunars who’ve mastered Essence 6+ Charms. Such Charms don’t represent a new tier of power beyond what Essence 5 Charms are capable of — rather, they depict these elders’ unique and idiosyncratic capacities, signature feats that define their legend but remain within the bounds of ordinary power."

          Combined with Supernal, this means that starting Solars have access to the most powerful Charms in the setting, E5 Solar Charms.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by The Free Man View Post
            Wait, what? What does this mean? I know that we don't have any examples to point to, but I don't understand how an E7 or E8 charm would be just as strong as E5. I thought that some of the effects from DotFA would be "put on a higher shelf" so to speak, like from E6 or E7 to E8 or E9.
            Essence 6+ isn’t a new tier of power, but more of a personalized unique set of charms. You keep getting more motes, and you do gain NEW abilities, but not more powerful ones. Also raising Essence above 5 no longer lets you raise attributes and abilities above 5, so any effect that lets off of “Add dice equal to the lower of Essence or Strength” for example stop gaining power.

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            • #36
              "This angelic power might be just a LITTLE out of theme for Solars, but I'm Essence 6, so I can push out the boundaries of Solar themes just a LITTLE bit and go no, this is my angelic power charm.", essentially.

              It doesn't let you make bigger booms or roll more dice or better dice, it just expands your themes a little in a way congruous with how you've been playing your character the last 80+ sessions.

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              • #37
                I can think of a few methods for Solars and exalts to destroy mountains, but its less using your charms and more demolition with Solar tier sorcery and/or workings. Because I'm going to be honest excavating a passage through a mountain by just focusing death ray on it till its melted through sounds like an awesome explanation of an extended roll.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                  Yozi escape was always impossible.

                  MoEP: Infernals pointed out that the Exalted literally exist to do the impossible, and Yozi escape was carried forwards in Broken Winged Crane and Return of the Scarlet Empress.
                  Good you're familiar with the sidebar that says the Infernal books are written from an Infernal propaganda position and the it is in fact impossible for them to escape. But it is your game so if you want it to work go right ahead.

                  Broken Winged Crane was more yozi perspective. Return of the Scarlet Empress services the fan obsession with Yozi escape and took it to far.

                  Destroying mountains with your sword isn't outside of Solar design space, but it's not a useful charm to have in the core rulebook. Even in 2e it took years for that charm to show up. There are much better charms to put into melee than " I cut the mountain in two," and we all know that space was tight in the book anyway.

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                  • #39
                    We may never see that kind of charm this edition anyway. The ability to sweep your blade across and cut a mountain in half or level a city isn’t totally out of theme with solar powers or anything, but it is one of those powers that really cuts away a lot of epic game potential. Like laying siege to the Imperial City should be one of the greatest feats you could even attempt, not something to be accomplished in a single action with the expenditure of motes and willpower. Breaking the outer wall, yes, shattering every building, no. Even God-Kings Shrike has some fairly hefty and dangerous conditions to it, and even if it goes off there’s no guarantee that powerful cities wouldn’t be able to fend off the doom.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by The Free Man View Post
                      Wait, what? What does this mean? I know that we don't have any examples to point to, but I don't understand how an E7 or E8 charm would be just as strong as E5. I thought that some of the effects from DotFA would be "put on a higher shelf" so to speak, like from E6 or E7 to E8 or E9.
                      I'd say it's apparent now that Essence above 5 doesn't really denote ascension into some kind of super-Exalt, but really a signifier for somebody exceptionally accomplished and stylish even among the Exalted. In most respects, their power is more personally focused.

                      Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                      I wanted to address the Dawn Caste destroying the mountain because to me it's a good way to highlight some key differences between 2nd edition and Ex3.

                      In 2nd edition you'd essentially approach the mountain like a big opponent with no ability to evade you but lots of soak and health levels, you'd use your combat charms and try to do enough damage until the ST declares it rubble.

                      In 3rd edition the most pressing question is "why do you want to attack the mountain?" because inanimate objects aren't normally a part of the combat system, unless that mountain is the slowly awakening form of the demon Chernobog or something like that you don't roll join battle against it. If you're fighting something on the mountain there's a type of special attack intended to make the combat system more cinematic called a Gambit which would allow you to do something like attacking above your opponent to try and cause a rockslide. Finally there's your Feats of Strength/Demolition if there's no fighting involved. A Storyteller might allow this one to happen instantly if there's no meaningful difference between smashing it into rubble in a single blow and demolishing it from the peak down over the course of several weeks.

                      Currently I don't think there's a way to do it in 3rd edition but as you can see all three are different prospects.
                      I believe it's also meant to be valid for stunt fodder; that if a fight is taking place at the peak of a mountain, it can be dramatically appropriate for a Solar to cleave the peak of it for some purpose such as riding the rock down the slope, something that makes the scene more exciting and maybe shakes it up a bit while not inherently having a tactical value or attacking the mountain being the point.

                      I personally find Essence 6 mountain cutting to be a telling example of examining what it meant for Exalted powers to go so high, because a lot of Abilities only have so much that they can do sensibly. A Charm that does infinite damage to an object because you hit it with a sword ultimately looks like an acknowledgement that there's nowhere to take Melee that is congruent with the rest of the Charms.


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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                        I believe it's also meant to be valid for stunt fodder; that if a fight is taking place at the peak of a mountain, it can be dramatically appropriate for a Solar to cleave the peak of it for some purpose such as riding the rock down the slope, something that makes the scene more exciting and maybe shakes it up a bit while not inherently having a tactical value or attacking the mountain being the point.
                        All three editions of Exalted would expect you to use the mountain as stunt fodder. Third Edition's scenery based Gambits are something of a callback to 1st edition stunting rules which could provide you with the functionality of a weaker charm your character didn't possess rather than just more dice.


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                        • #42
                          Exalts plateau at E5, but they can use Artifacts to push their own limits (this is especially true for DBs whose native Charms are weaker than the Evocations they can unlock from Jade Artifacts).

                          For instance an E3 Solar can use the Heaven and Earth Gauntlets to do any of the following :

                          -knock back a behemoth into a mountain
                          -destroy heavy fortifications in a single punch
                          -divert the course of a river by punching it
                          -stop an avalanche in its tracks with a well timed punch
                          -divert the course of the mountain Mostath in a single blow
                          and other such shenanigans.

                          So destroying a mountain in one blow is probably still possible for an Exalt, so long as they find or forge the right artifact for it.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                            Could anyone tell me what has changed lore wise and setting wise?
                            So some summaries here:

                            General Setting
                            There's more world there (this post on RPG.net shows that nicely). In fact, a way I generally have been thinking on Creation is that there's more Creation in general. This isn't just in area. There's a lot more in that area according to the books with locations we have had so far.

                            There's also more time. The First Age lasted five thousand years this time (about fifteen centuries more than in previous editons) and it has a lot more periods, dyansties, overlapping events, and general "texture" to things. The shape is the same, (pre-history, war, Old Realm, Shogunate, Contagion, Second Age, Time of Tumult) but the details in these is heavily revsied. There's even terms about that show this. We see the term War of the Gods or Divine Revolution instead of Primordial War, for instance. Primordial doesn't even ever show up as a term in the 3e corebook. We just see what they became, and when talked about in the past we just see "enemies of the gods' or "creators of the world". In any case, a bit with 3e is there's a lot of folks writing it who read a lot of history, see how much you can pack into one area, and kind of write with an idea that you can have a region the size of England and do you know, a whole 20-video series about its first two-thousand years as a thing. (link) Or Japan and almost sixty (another link.)

                            What is canon more or less has reset. While there are references to 3e takes on things in previous editions, 3e is written more or less with an assumption that previous stuff isn't really for sure canon. And what will be "brought back" is in itself subject to change or draws on particular things, like how Yozis draw on their Games of Divinity presentation primarily, but even things htere could be changed. And some things which got a lot talked on them will probably just be toned down and left for you to use as much or little form before as youw ant, they aren't doing much more with them. (Apparently from some dev statements for example, Paragon's write-up in Dragon-Blooded is probably all we'll se eof it this edition for a while.)

                            How the world "works" is a bit different in presentation. A lot of Creation would if you dropped random person in it, looks like Earth. People farm the same way, kilm the same way, build houses the same way. At the same time, they have multiple rituals, daily routines, taboos and such. A big thing with 3e compared to 2e at least, is that in 2e, every single one of these was actually magical for real, did something, and was vital. In 3e, some of them might. Many of them don't. And many people in teh world simply can't tell the difference. Remember that hear on Earth, we have superstitions and such without there really being fairies, ghosts, and spirits. Creation does have these...but it also has things folks thinks are those. I think this implies a lot of the world a bit. It's understandable, but still has its weird. And there are more locations that have their unique weirdness. It's just that not every single solitary thing in the world is unique and weird. Even for people in Creation, Paragon is strange, Halta having talking animals is exotic, and sorcerers are rare and feared. Even though your city has a giant sorcerer tower nailing a behemoth to the ground is an important part of your economy, you probably would find Haslanti airboats completely spectacular. And while you might have some legit gods to deal with, you could still put milk saucers on the window sill. Just in case. (Even if no such beings care in where you live.)

                            Creation is also a lot less "on the brink" this time around. Balor was something which has happened once in all of history and before. There will never be another probably. The Yozis will never be free. The Neverborn are impotent and mad, and there is no Oblivion. Creation is less than it was, but what Doom it has is going to be something long in the future, which grinds it away and eventaully has it fade from the light, not some big epic Final Battle. A new Alexanar might rise in one part of Creation to never be heard about in another corner. World's big, world's hard to move around, and a lot can happen in there that's of a massive scale. Kind of with the first point, you have room and you have time this editon .

                            Dragon-Blooded and the Realm
                            Something not talked about is this. In 3e the Realm has a lot bigger emphasis. It is pushed much more as the single axial superpower in the setting, is much stronger politically, militarily, and administratively than in previous editions. A lot of the world's economy and geopolitics have it in there. And so the fact that it's about to rip itself apart in a succession crisis is the big cataclysm in the setting right now. A big thing on de-emphasizing a Seond Balorian Crusade or Deathlords Murder Everything is that you make it so you can focus on more things like htis.

                            Timeline of stuff in the Realm is different too. Different houses have pretty different origins, times of formation, and so on. House Iselsi notably tried their coup just over one hundred years ago, not four hundred, and they were not demoted from Great House until about 18 years ago.

                            Dragon-Blooded are presented as less "disposble" now too. They are still weaker than Solars, but the general power curve is still flat enough that they put up fights and can be threats still. The setting also presents their history very differently. After the War of the Gods, they even went and just found their won kingdoms and states around Creation. The First Age kind of implies Celestial Exalted couried favor with the Dragon-Blooded but they remained largely their own thing. THey probably never had much more numbers than now either and are no less fertile now than before either as a whole. At least, nothing implies this edition they're fallen or lacking in numbers compared to previously.

                            Terrestrial Exaltation also works a bit different in that it's not infinite. Basically there's a Taoist element called Progenitive Essence wherein once you conceive a child, you need to wait a while to "build up" that Progentive Essence, or the chances of any subsequent children Exalting go down a bit. Usually this takes about ten to twenty years. There's even a term for kids born too early ("leftover children"). Basically if you try to do "breeding camp" stuff like in previous editions your chances of getting any Exalted kids is almost nill. Gotta wait or I guess be super lucky. There's also a stigma that teh children of leftover children are less likely to Exalt (this isn't true, just a bias societally). Basically there's a lot more emphasis on DBs in the Realm being valuable, and DBs throughout history being generally so.

                            Lunar Exalted
                            Lunar Exalted also go a lot more focus. Their thesis is "Divien Apex Predator" and they have a lot more focus on being hunters, tricksters, and witches. Their Charms are while not as inddividually storng always as Solars, often comparable, and they do feel much more like peers to Solars, oftne preseting a great deal of flexiblity to Solar raw power and competence.They even just outright equal in some areas. Necromancy is going ot have Circles until further notice according ot the devs, and Lunars equal Solars in that, for instance. Thematic strength matters than Solar supremecy, basiclaly.

                            Bond has very different origins. Lunars and Solars were not initially paired, and in fact after the War of the Gods there was war between them on who would rule the world. They formed an alliance, and the marriages and partnerships formed unlocked unplanned synergies between them baically. Not all Lunars had a Bonded Solar either (devs are using 1e numbers, so ~300 Solars, and 300-400 Lunars). The Bond is a bit more symmetrical too. Some Solar Charms work differently against Lunars and vice-versa.

                            Lunar Castes were changed too. Lunars no longer really have any Wyld taint. Chimerism just means you have a spirit shape that blends features from two or more animals (ie, an actual chimera). They formed their First Age Castes out of synergy with Solars (we don't know what tthey had before that, if any). After the Usurpation, they reforged their Castes to the three we have now on purpose. The Full Moon and No Moon are as much creations fo the Second Age as the Changing Moon. The three we have are just straight-up new Castes.

                            Rather than hide in the Wyld, Lunars have basically been running an insurgency against Terrestrial Hegemony since the Usurpation. They moslty worked to destory the Shogunate, but a united Dragon-Blooded Host is you know, a lot of Exalts. Since the Contagion they've been gaining ground glboally, and have held the Realm back, but it's a lot more balanced. Some Lunars think they'll win in not long. Others are cynical that the Realm just wins by not losing. But their main thing is against the Shogunate and its heirs since well, they still try to kill Lunars and Lunars threaten their empires. Basically they are much more tied to Creation's history than before, with a presentation that is meant to put Dragon-Blooded in a place of power, while at the same time, make the Lunar threat to the Terrestrial Hegemony very real. They're the two Exalts that define the political ladnscape of Creation today more than anything.

                            In this context the Lunars don't build or support societies for some philoosphical goal of protecting the world. The world will live on. It's pretty much more real politic. Many elder Lunars want the throen of the world that they believe was taken from them. Many younger modern Lunars want to fight the emprie that's defined their lives or affected them in some way.

                            Folks covered lotta other good points. Felt these were ones that stood out worth bringing up.


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                            • #44
                              Excuse me Blaque but First Age lasted 5 thousands years of 5 hundred years ? A friend told me it was 5 hundred so I was set on this idea for Exalted

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                              • #45
                                According to Ex3 page 20.
                                The First Age was an age of wonders and glories long lost to the current age. These splendours flowed from the hands and minds of the Solar Exalted, who ruled the world, its gods, and its Chosen as benevolent masters for five thousand years.

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