Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

5 YEARS with no Abyssals, Liminals or Sidereals.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    ​And in this case, Abyssals and Sidereals are akin to a bed and mattress, in that they're obviously something you're going to want in your apartment, but are not included by default.

    ​(Except, in this case, we got samples of both in the Antagonists chapter, so it's like your landlord saw you not bringing a mattress on move-in day, and, out of the goodness of his heart, provided you with a cheap one, because it's better than nothing.)
    This Is Fine.

    Comment


    • #17
      The main thing here is that I vastly prefer the quality of the books we have gotten to the rush "we have to print X words per month" of Second Edition.
      And don't get me wrong, I can't wait for Sidereals, not to mention the Infernals that you haven't even mentioned and that might still take 5+ years to get to.
      But I honestly think that the Second Edition "2.5" errata tells me all I need to know about what happens if you try to rush these products out.
      We've just gotten the best Lunars in 3 Editions. I'm willing to wait a little longer if that means Sidereals get a similar treatment.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Serpent Axis View Post
        This Is Fine.
        The house is not on fire, though. You just didn't bring the bed from your old place, and are upset that the landlord didn't give you a king-size mattress.

        Comment


        • #19
          Alucard, are you kidding me?

          Look at what happens to a would-be first time GM.

          If they want to do anything but mortals and Solars, they've got half a dozen premades before they enter the dark marshes of homebrew. They know damn near nothing about any of these other exalts unless they pay for a book that has zero relevant mechanics. Even if they shell out that money, getting useful Charms requires they fully understand the difference between 2e and 3e design. Any GM not willing to extensively homebrew is going to have problems. (DBs finally coming out made this a lot better though)
          They have no guidelines or advice on how to make spirits, fae, animals, or even interesting and competitive statblocks. Nada. Zip. Zilch. And, I might add, there's nothing in the core book that can handle a half-decent Dawn let alone an optimized one. The GM who wants to hand his combat-focused player something fun to fight has to make it himself. Any GM who doesn't have a deep understanding of the mechanics and balance is going to have problems. And maybe quit, or just have a game where the Dawn never feels threatened.
          They have a party of three to five golden supermen who, thanks to Supernal, are going to be absurdly effective at their chosen specialties. Solars start at levels of power that would be game-breaking in other games. And the poor GM has no advice whatsoever on how to make things work. Not a goddamn word. So unless this new guy has a good grasp of Exalted's radically different play model, the game is going to fall apart.
          It's even worse if there's a crafter in the party, since then the GM has to be ready to make artifacts and their charms and attunement bonuses from scratch. Or a summoner dissatisfied with their handful of E1 options. Or an anyone who wants a Retainer or Ally that's neither mortal nor Solar.

          Right now, damn near any GM stepping in blind is going to be crushed. I held it together until friends moving and players being unable to remember even the names of their charms killed my game. I'm sure somebody who started with EX1 or EX2 could have done better. But I can say for absolute fact that nobody else I know would even consider running a system with this lack of GM support.

          A third of the book is Charms. You're telling me there's no room to cut 10% of that to include two dozen pages of advice? Even 5% of that for a dozen pages of advice? Just a single charm from each Ability to free up half a dozen pages of help?

          Comment


          • #20
            More seriously if we hadn't had to deal with the glacial pace of Holden and Morke in the early years of the Edition we may have actually had Sidereals in progress already. It's undeniable that once Minton and Vance took the reins we've gotten actual progress. Pissing and moaning like a petulant little baby about 'FIIIIVVVVVEEEEE YEEEEEEEAAAAAARRRRRRS' solves precisely nothing and makes you look like a brat.

            Now, there were definitely some poor choices in the corebook. One, it had too many goddamn Charms. Fucking hell, there are too many Charms. I heard someone once say if you took a Craft-Supernal Twilight and made them buy nothing but Craft Charms with their XP, they would hit E5 and still not have bought all the Craft Charms and I believe them. There are too many Charms, too many of them are underwhelming, and a lot of them are unclear and imprecise.

            And support for homebrew is pathetic. It gives you a bunch of sample characters, but when it comes to building NEW ones it goes "I'unno, figure it out". This is also pretty poor for Evocation write-ups.

            Scion 2e actually does far better than this, as its books give you archetypes for base stats, and a bunch of various Qualities and Powers you can weld onto them to customize what kind of nasty critter you want your PCs to encounter. It gives you a toolbox, in addition to a medley of pre-made antagonists.

            Now, in spite of all this, I'm not gonna start pissing and moaning for all the content to come out NOOOOOOOW because I was in Exalted for the 2e days and I remember when they were spitting out splatbooks super fast. Problem was there was no quality oversight. And I'd rather have a book that had quality writing in it, rather than a shit book sooner.

            (Though Holden and Morke still aren't off the hook for how abysmal their pace was for getting products out after the Kickstarter. Fucking hell, YEARS to get us the Backer Charms and didn't even get us Arms of the Chosen before they got the boot?)


            Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by wern212 View Post
              The main thing here is that I vastly prefer the quality of the books we have gotten to the rush "we have to print X words per month" of Second Edition.
              And don't get me wrong, I can't wait for Sidereals, not to mention the Infernals that you haven't even mentioned and that might still take 5+ years to get to.
              But I honestly think that the Second Edition "2.5" errata tells me all I need to know about what happens if you try to rush these products out.
              We've just gotten the best Lunars in 3 Editions. I'm willing to wait a little longer if that means Sidereals get a similar treatment.
              The "let's not rush perfection" argument doesn't work after it took 5 years just to get Dragon-Bloods and maybe Lunars (the latter of which aren't out yet as of the time of this post).

              Infernals can be said to be "non-essential". Obviously, we want 3E Infernals, but the Core splats are Solars, DB, Abyssal and Sidereal, with Lunars possibly essential as well. Those are the ones that absolutely must be developed and released within a reasonable span of time.

              You cannot have an edition of Exalted go past half a decade without those splats being available.

              Sidereals aren't even on the horizon. We have no time table for Sidereals. We have no time table for Abyssals.

              Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
              The house is not on fire, though. You just didn't bring the bed from your old place, and are upset that the landlord didn't give you a king-size mattress.
              Homebrewing is not the solution.

              This isn't the same thing as writing up a locale for the group to visit - you're telling me I have to revise 600+ pages of content (Sidereals + Abyssals), including Charm Trees and additional mechanics (Resonance, Sidereal Astrology, Necrotech, Necromancy, Martial Arts, Sidereal Martial Arts, Resplendent Destinies, the Loom of Fate, etc), and that all this is on me?

              I'm not a game developer. It's not on me to write half the system.

              Especially not after 5 years.

              It's on the devs, Alucard. It's on them to do.
              I don't know how to do all that - why do you think I buy the books?

              But if this is the direction that we're going, then answer me this: ....Why do I need Onyx Path?
              If I can just homebrew this stuff, why don't I just write up an entire game system by myself? Why do I need Exalted?

              Comment


              • #22
                Is there a point to this thread or did you just want to come in and kvetch? Cause I'm not seeing a point to this, you don't accomplish anything you're not asking anyone to give you information because you think you're missing something, so why does this exist?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Serpent Axis View Post
                  FIVE YEEEAAARRRSSS ! ! !

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bcnO3VQ_fc

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Serpent Axis View Post


                    But that's just you filling in the blanks with homebrew and essentially saying "This Is Fine".
                    It's not a real solution, it's a temporary bandaid - worse, it's the kind of bandaid that works in one group but fails another and changes from Storyteller to Storyteller.
                    It's literally the only solution available.

                    What other choice do you have that will actually produce results? Discovering the writers' address and whipping them ?

                    I'd love to get them to work full time with a couple more staff, but I can't exactly afford it.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Holden and Hatewheel took ages and ages.
                      So they were fired.
                      In 2 years, the new Devs have produced 3 books, a whole bunch of short pdfs, and they've almost finished another book (the raw text is available). It's not amazing, and it's not terrible.

                      Personally, I found running the game hard at the beginning but it's fine now.


                      I run... Lunars: The Apocalypse! Exalted 3rd edition. Fimbulwinter is upon the world as an Ice Age begins, and only six young Lunar heroes have a chance of saving humanity.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Clophiroth View Post

                        ..............You win both the thread and my heart.

                        Originally posted by Synapse View Post
                        It's literally the only solution available.

                        What other choice do you have that will actually produce results? Discovering the writers' address and whipping them ?

                        I'd love to get them to work full time with a couple more staff, but I can't exactly afford it.
                        Whoooooooooaaaa... I would have went with "intense staring" and "intentful throat-clearing while emoting towards an older copy of Exalted: Abyssals, then tapping a watch with a finger repeatedly". Why did you go straight for the whip?

                        But in any case, this is mostly venting because I don't have a solution. Just frustration.

                        Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
                        Holden and Hatewheel took ages and ages.
                        So they were fired.
                        In 2 years, the new Devs have produced 3 books, a whole bunch of short pdfs, and they've almost finished another book (the raw text is available). It's not amazing, and it's not terrible.

                        Personally, I found running the game hard at the beginning but it's fine now.
                        I didn't actually know about the inner workings of the company and the dev change. Reading about it in this and a previous post, I'm certainly more hopeful now and this definitely lifts some of the frustration.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          hahahahaha
                          I understand your frustration, I sure would love to have all major splats on my hands already, but we make do with what we have.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Serpent Axis View Post
                            It's not a real solution, it's a temporary bandaid - worse, it's the kind of bandaid that works in one group but fails another and changes from Storyteller to Storyteller.
                            Yes.

                            Nobody is suggesting it is the only solution.

                            It's certainly not an ideal solution.

                            But it's an option that some people can partake of.

                            Do you not think that Sidereals have lots of iconic powers that convert really easily? Is it very hard to bring over Neighborhood Relocation Scheme? Or even Dodge Fate?

                            Astrology should be built differently, but is the familiar form completely untenable for the moment ?

                            I agree that it sucks that the progress of the game was delayed by two years, and that even picking up the pace is not the fastest (although with the comprehensive nature of the last couple of books featuring Exalted, a bit of time is probably necessary).

                            But there are still options that can be employed temporarily.


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                              ​And in this case, Abyssals and Sidereals are akin to a bed and mattress, in that they're obviously something you're going to want in your apartment, but are not included by default.

                              ​(Except, in this case, we got samples of both in the Antagonists chapter, so it's like your landlord saw you not bringing a mattress on move-in day, and, out of the goodness of his heart, provided you with a cheap one, because it's better than nothing.)
                              Except beds and mattresses aren't things you expect to come with the apartment. It's more like renting an apartment, only to find the sink in the kitchen was never installed. Sure, you can live without the kitchen sink since you have everything but (pun intentional), but when you inquire about the eventual future installation of said kitchen sink, you're told waiting over five years isn't that bad. Also, there are people who already installed their own kitchen sinks, so maybe you should do that.

                              And the landlord also has a chapter in your lease agreement that shows you examples of installed kitchen sinks, so maybe that's enough. It's better than nothing, right?


                              Writing up Clanbook: Aabbt

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                No, as there are actually laws against apartments not having sinks. If your landlord leases you an apartment like that, you can take him to court over that shit.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X