Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

5 YEARS with no Abyssals, Liminals or Sidereals.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Lioness View Post
    I'm saying nothing.

    This is saying quite a bit, and strange purple letters are emanating from it.


    The Book of Laughing Serpents Series(Latest Here)
    Many Limbed Manual
    Patreon here: https://patreon.com/undeadauthorsociety
    San Jeanro Co-Op writer. Volume 1 here Volume 2 here Volume 3 here
    My folklore and horror blog, here:http://undeadauthorsociety.com

    Comment


    • On Infernal thematics, a big thing is to think on 3e who some of the media inspiration is. I had brought it up before, but with the Infernals being "People who have been kicked down by the world, sfufered greatly despite their talents, and given great, strange power to enact their will" has some pretty good media resources to work on. And that these resources do let you do prettye pic stuff without it being in the end some faux-philosophical waxing on how I am big and powerful and equal to a copreration of mind is needed to make me interesting.

      The big one oddly being Magneto, who note has a fucking asteroid country and pushes all sorts of "I'm greater than man" stuff. He's a character who is driven from a really really deep place of pain and trauma, who now that he has power uses that to change the world as he thinks is better. Another one is Killmonger from the Black Panther movie depiction, who again has a story of pain and trauma, great skill and ability, and who when he gains power very much wants to change the world in a way he htink is better, but still fueled by that anger and hate.

      I'm sure I can go and find a few more examples, but these two at least when I was told about the Infernal take is interesting. Solars are arete and classical epic heroism. Abysals are gotchi and romantic heroes of the grave. Infernals are formerly denied capability and enacting that on the world. I think there's something there with the difference of Solars and Infernals at least. There's a different drive I think in the default Solar story versus what is a more "defualt" Infernal one. The main link is the ability of skill and expertise to express your power. But one is through your own will, the other is you being given the tools to apply your skill in ways you would never have been able to before. There's a difference between being a super good smith adn being you know, Magneto.


      And stuff.
      My DeviantArt Page // My tumblr // Exalted 3e Houserules

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Beans View Post
        Aside from the fact that "weeks" was pretty clearly illustrative exaggeration, 150 years what?
        The Yozi engineered the Infernals with 150 year life spans so they could carry out the Reclaimation (specifically called out as being impossible) then die.

        Even Under the Rose takes place after the signatures have gained a significant amount of experience.


        Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Blaque View Post
          On Infernal thematics, a big thing is to think on 3e who some of the media inspiration is. I had brought it up before, but with the Infernals being "People who have been kicked down by the world, sfufered greatly despite their talents, and given great, strange power to enact their will" has some pretty good media resources to work on. And that these resources do let you do prettye pic stuff without it being in the end some faux-philosophical waxing on how I am big and powerful and equal to a copreration of mind is needed to make me interesting.

          The big one oddly being Magneto, who note has a fucking asteroid country and pushes all sorts of "I'm greater than man" stuff. He's a character who is driven from a really really deep place of pain and trauma, who now that he has power uses that to change the world as he thinks is better. Another one is Killmonger from the Black Panther movie depiction, who again has a story of pain and trauma, great skill and ability, and who when he gains power very much wants to change the world in a way he htink is better, but still fueled by that anger and hate.

          I'm sure I can go and find a few more examples, but these two at least when I was told about the Infernal take is interesting. Solars are arete and classical epic heroism. Abysals are gotchi and romantic heroes of the grave. Infernals are formerly denied capability and enacting that on the world. I think there's something there with the difference of Solars and Infernals at least. There's a different drive I think in the default Solar story versus what is a more "defualt" Infernal one. The main link is the ability of skill and expertise to express your power. But one is through your own will, the other is you being given the tools to apply your skill in ways you would never have been able to before. There's a difference between being a super good smith adn being you know, Magneto.
          Infernals as Magneto is a good take.


          Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
            One. Hundred. And Fifty. Years.

            One hundred and fifty years.

            *in the style of "five years"*

            ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS.
            I was speaking in complete generalities about world ending bombs. Specifically the reclamation issue I mentioned in point 2.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
              2. Don’t spend a ton of word count on it, which eventually was a huge problem with the Reclamation in particular. By far the biggest most comprehensive, and epic published adventure for 2e was Return of the Scarlett Empress and it’s supplement Under the Rose. It doesn’t really matter at that point how many times you say it’s not canon and impossible without ST powers, it’s going to become an assumed thing in the minds of the community.
              I don't need a campaign book for a simple plot. I need one for complicated plots. So do we just ban adventure modules, or what? Does anyone look at Tomb of Dreams and play that in all their games?

              And the books couldn't be more explicit about not being canon. It's like looking at the Red Rule and saying "this game is going to put me in situations I'm not comfortable in".


              Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by vwllss trnt prncss View Post

                That's second edition lore. The Deathlords no longer made the Contagion. The Kukla are nowhere to be found in 3e. Third has been very good about removing all looming doomsdays.
                Because "World's about to end! Do something!" is a great campaign premise but it has to be something the GM introduces. Otherwise you have the Yozi and Kukla and Deathlords and Istvara and pals sticking their heads out of the book to say "Hey, cool Three Kingdoms game! But have you dealt with us yet? We're gonna blow it alllll up!".

                I'm saying "Exalted shouldn't have to fight world-ending threats to have the rest of their story matter". I'm saying "Exalted should have a default bunch of antagonists that doesn't include 'doomsday' so plots that aren't 'go fight doomsday' don't necessitate ignoring doomsday".
                I am all for Exalted beating up the end of the world. That's great, it's awesome, it's very Exalted. But so are a bunch of other things that need to not be played out in the shadow of the end of the world.
                A plot about beating up Blood Apes means ignoring War Ghosts.
                A plot about sailing the West means ignoring the jungles of the East.
                A plot about freeing Thorns means ignoring Skullstone.

                A plot that's not about doomsday means ignoring doomsday. No Contest Your Honor.

                So ignore it.

                I absolutely guarantee that you've ignored some element of Exalted in every game you've ever played.

                I don't see the game expanded by shutting down story options.
                I don't see it more interesting by making the scope smaller.

                Dimishing the threat diminishes the heroes.

                It's not a deal breaker for me. I have RotSE. I'm happy to run RotSE under 3E rules. I'm happy to do so one week into the game, then have the Deathlords make a play to wipe out Creation. I'll use my imagination and play the game I want to play.

                Agree to disagree, I guess.


                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                  I don't need a campaign book for a simple plot. I need one for complicated plots. So do we just ban adventure modules, or what? Does anyone look at Tomb of Dreams and play that in all their games?
                  Complicated plots are not necessarily cosmic threats, and cosmic threats are not necessarily that complicated. Although it certainly could be, and an adventure module style thing could be made for it. If you're going to do that though, make like eight other ones that carry the same kind of weight and size that are spread around a bit. Maybe we could have an adventure module about Lookshy clashing with Thorns, or House Peleps playing a Pacific Theatre style war against Skullstone or something. Then when the book about an Ishvara rolling into Creation to wreck it comes it doesn't take up so much of the real estate.


                  Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                  And the books couldn't be more explicit about not being canon.
                  Right, exactly my point. RotSE had a giant red flashing red sign with a blaring klaxon that said "WARNING! WARNING! THIS IS NOT CANON! THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE!" and yet after it dropped 2/3, I'm lowballing here, of the games played all the way up until the ex3 kickstarter when everyone dropped it in favour of other systems had the god damned Ebon Dragon marrying The Scarlett Empress and escaping Hell. Even if there was some other plot going on, like an invasion from a stasis-locked first age legion, TED's escape plan somehow showed up.

                  It basically became part of the meta-plot, regardless of the warnings.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post

                    It's not a deal breaker for me. I have RotSE. I'm happy to run RotSE under 3E rules. I'm happy to do so one week into the game, then have the Deathlords make a play to wipe out Creation. I'll use my imagination and play the game I want to play.

                    Agree to disagree, I guess.
                    I’m just curious, if you’re running DBs how are you doing RotSE with 0xp?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                      I’m just curious, if you’re running DBs how are you doing RotSE with 0xp?
                      I meant in the abstract. I don't think I ever played RotSE other than as an Infernal.

                      Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                      Right, exactly my point. RotSE had a giant red flashing red sign with a blaring klaxon that said "WARNING! WARNING! THIS IS NOT CANON! THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE!" and yet after it dropped 2/3, I'm lowballing here, of the games played all the way up until the ex3 kickstarter when everyone dropped it in favour of other systems had the god damned Ebon Dragon marrying The Scarlett Empress and escaping Hell. Even if there was some other plot going on, like an invasion from a stasis-locked first age legion, TED's escape plan somehow showed up.

                      It basically became part of the meta-plot, regardless of the warnings.
                      I had the Ebon Dragon marry the Scarlet Queen in the first, 1E, game I ever ran. I don't think that's a fair plot point. Stuff like half-akuma and Lucius killing your mortal allies in their sleep might be.

                      As for releasing more content: I'm all for that. All those story ideas sound great. You're the one saying there shouldn't be books about destroying Creation under any circumstances because it ruins all other games* -- I'm saying let people fight off the apocalypse. Beating down Ishvara sounds fantastic.

                      [*Yes, that's a gross simplification of the point you're trying to make, but I don't think it's an unfair representation of your point: you don't want word count spent on the Reclaimation because it diminishes other stories. By being an awesome plot that speaks to people and makes them want to incorporate it in 2/3rds of their games despite it not actually being canon. Because it's such a good story. ;-p ]


                      Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                        I meant in the abstract. I don't think I ever played RotSE other than as an Infernal.


                        I had the Ebon Dragon marry the Scarlet Queen in the first, 1E, game I ever ran. I don't think that's a fair plot point. Stuff like half-akuma and Lucius killing your mortal allies in their sleep might be.

                        As for releasing more content: I'm all for that. All those story ideas sound great. You're the one saying there shouldn't be books about destroying Creation under any circumstances because it ruins all other games* -- I'm saying let people fight off the apocalypse. Beating down Ishvara sounds fantastic.

                        [*Yes, that's a gross simplification of the point you're trying to make, but I don't think it's an unfair representation of your point: you don't want word count spent on the Reclaimation because it diminishes other stories. By being an awesome plot that speaks to people and makes them want to incorporate it in 2/3rds of their games despite it not actually being canon. Because it's such a good story. ;-p ]
                        I don’t think I ever said cosmic threats are bad for the setting. They just don’t need to take up a huge amount of word count. That being relative, of course. If we had 20 adventure modules and only one had a primordial style threat, even if it was 400 pages it wouldn’t really be a lot of words. It also shouldn’t be a majority of words in the setting areas of the game, and when it does show up it shouldn’t be certain or imminent. Which I should say ex3 has done pretty well on in my opinion. They’ve even introduced new potential cosmic threats that have remained in the background and unobtrusive.

                        Either that or, and I’d prefer not this, just stop playing coy about it by detailing parts of the setting like they matter. If Vaneha and it’s 1,000 mile long palisade wall that’s a bulwark against fey creatures is just going to get steamrolled by a titan the size of a continent I don’t need to read about it. Just make a setting book detailing manse and artifact N/As, and the ultimate military power of the Realm, and just leave the descriptions of particular prefectures and houses and stuff.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                          Right, exactly my point. RotSE had a giant red flashing red sign with a blaring klaxon that said "WARNING! WARNING! THIS IS NOT CANON! THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE!" and yet after it dropped 2/3, I'm lowballing here, of the games played all the way up until the ex3 kickstarter when everyone dropped it in favour of other systems had the god damned Ebon Dragon marrying The Scarlett Empress and escaping Hell. Even if there was some other plot going on, like an invasion from a stasis-locked first age legion, TED's escape plan somehow showed up.
                          In the very first 2E game I ran, back in the summer of 2006, I had the Ebon Dragon escape because he tricked the Incarnae into summoning to Yu-Shan to stand trial for doing grievous harm to one of Gaia's souls wandering Creation. He had the empress then as well. She mainly served as a conduit to attack Gaia through, using her attunement to the most potent demense in Creation as a sympathetic link to the Essential Mother. After he broke his bonds in Yu-Shan, he just coiled around the Games of Divinity like the covetous dragon he is and waited for the PCs to rescue the Empress from hell so Gaia could no longer be held hostage through her.

                          That was all well before RotSE, and we never really did an Ebon Dragon heavy game after that one. He was a major conspirator in our one Infernal game, but we ran the Reclamation a bit differently than canon. Basically, the intent of the Reclamation in our games tends to be either 1) Just go and remind Creation who its makers really are, and / or 2) Taint Creation to the point that it gets dragged into hell rather than the letting the Yozis go free.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post

                            I don’t think I ever said cosmic threats are bad for the setting.
                            Then I apologise. I respect and (mostly) agree with your point of view.

                            I like All Cosmic, All the Time (for Solars and Sids, the other splats work better with a tighter focus), but I certainly wouldn't deny that interesting lower level (but nonetheless intricate) plots are cool and should be shown more support.

                            My beef is solely with people who say cosmic threats shouldn't be supported period.


                            Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JohnDoe244 View Post
                              The Yozi engineered the Infernals with 150 year life spans so they could carry out the Reclaimation (specifically called out as being impossible) then die.
                              This would be at odds with the writers of Manual: Infernals having frequently reiterated that the Yozis desperately require the Reclamation to happen as soon as possible before things like the Green Sun Princes recognising that they're better off without it or Heaven catching on and taking steps to hard counter it.

                              If there are any deeper implications to short Infernal lifespans it would seem to me an intention that they not be around long to share in the spoils.


                              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                              Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

                                This would be at odds with the writers of Manual: Infernals having frequently reiterated that the Yozis desperately require the Reclamation to happen as soon as possible before things like the Green Sun Princes recognising that they're better off without it or Heaven catching on and taking steps to hard counter it.

                                If there are any deeper implications to short Infernal lifespans it would seem to me an intention that they not be around long to share in the spoils.
                                How so and which passages?

                                If it's at odds with anything, it's CK being alive during RotSE.

                                150 years IS as soon as possible. One of the vectors of Yozi escape is a Fiend getting to Essence 10... taking a thousand years.


                                Hi, I'm JohnDoe244. My posts represent my opinions, not facts.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X